Mark 11:23 Truly I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them.
Matthew 12:21 Jesus replied, "Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
You are not going to move mountains with your faith.
Roger
*******
Mark 16:8 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them
Originally Posted by notuptome
So you believe in taking up deadly serpents? Drinking deadly poisons?
Roger
*******
1Co 14:4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.
Originally Posted by notuptome
What possible reason would one have to speak in an unknown tongue to God?
Roger
*******
1 Corinthians 14: 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues.
1 Corinthians 14: 39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
Paul was not encouraging tongues
Roger
********
1Timothy 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
Why would anyone desire to renounce eternal life for eternal condemnation?
Roger
********
Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My Name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son
Originally Posted by notuptome :
Have you been seduced by the false premise of miracles and wonders?
Roger
********
(Upon discussion that the true gifts will in the end glorify God)
Matthew 9:8 But when the multitudes saw it, they marveled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.
1Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed! And no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit
1 John 4:4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God.
Matthew 7: 15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
We test the spirits … not by what we believe to be the outcome
Roger
*******
1 Corinthian 14:39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
The three sign gifts (including tongues) have ended… those who do them have a demon
Roger
*******
John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
Miracles, signs and wonders do not produce faith
Roger
*******
John 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
They followed for the miracles
Roger
*******
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
God changes according to who He is speaking to and the time (paraphrased from a dispensational post)
Roger
*******
1 Corinthians 13:2 …and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains…
Originally Posted by notuptome :
Paul is using hyperbole when he says though I have all faith. He did not have all faith
Roger
*******
John 14:12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
Mark 16:17 -18 And these signs shall follow them that believe ... they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
God never endowed or promised to endow men with the authority He gave His Son
Roger
*******
Matthew 18: 15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
There is nothing Christian about shunning anyone
Roger
*******
Regarding tongues -
1 Corinthians 14 4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Roger
*******
1 Corinthians 14:15 I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
I know of no examples of tongues prayer in the scriptures. Prayer in tongues is a misconception created by men who seek to be hyper-spiritual.
Roger
*******
1 Corinthians 14: 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
It is simply immature to suggest that only god understands and even the speaker does not understand and is somehow edified.
Roger
Matthew 12:21 Jesus replied, "Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
You are not going to move mountains with your faith.
Roger
*******
Mark 16:8 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them
Originally Posted by notuptome
So you believe in taking up deadly serpents? Drinking deadly poisons?
Roger
*******
1Co 14:4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.
Originally Posted by notuptome
What possible reason would one have to speak in an unknown tongue to God?
Roger
*******
1 Corinthians 14: 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues.
1 Corinthians 14: 39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
Paul was not encouraging tongues
Roger
********
1Timothy 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
Why would anyone desire to renounce eternal life for eternal condemnation?
Roger
********
Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My Name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son
Originally Posted by notuptome :
Have you been seduced by the false premise of miracles and wonders?
Roger
********
(Upon discussion that the true gifts will in the end glorify God)
Matthew 9:8 But when the multitudes saw it, they marveled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.
1Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed! And no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit
1 John 4:4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God.
Matthew 7: 15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
We test the spirits … not by what we believe to be the outcome
Roger
*******
1 Corinthian 14:39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
The three sign gifts (including tongues) have ended… those who do them have a demon
Roger
*******
John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
Miracles, signs and wonders do not produce faith
Roger
*******
John 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
They followed for the miracles
Roger
*******
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
God changes according to who He is speaking to and the time (paraphrased from a dispensational post)
Roger
*******
1 Corinthians 13:2 …and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains…
Originally Posted by notuptome :
Paul is using hyperbole when he says though I have all faith. He did not have all faith
Roger
*******
John 14:12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
Mark 16:17 -18 And these signs shall follow them that believe ... they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
God never endowed or promised to endow men with the authority He gave His Son
Roger
*******
Matthew 18: 15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
There is nothing Christian about shunning anyone
Roger
*******
Regarding tongues -
1 Corinthians 14 4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Roger
*******
1 Corinthians 14:15 I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
I know of no examples of tongues prayer in the scriptures. Prayer in tongues is a misconception created by men who seek to be hyper-spiritual.
Roger
*******
1 Corinthians 14: 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.
Originally Posted by notuptome :
It is simply immature to suggest that only god understands and even the speaker does not understand and is somehow edified.
Roger