Romans Chapter 7

[Ariel82]

Can any one explain this chapter of the Bible. I have heard many theocracy's about this but none satisfy. Most say that this was before Paul was saved. I don't think so, Because his name is Paul and not Saul. Are there Christians out there who are bound by sin but, truly love God and are abhorred by what they are doing and want to be free from there bondage. Reading the bible more doesn't work, praying more doesn't work, fasting doesn't work. Cutting the grass at the church doesn't work. giving water bottles out to the poor doesn't work. Going to church every time the door is open doesn't work. And you are still bound. This thread is for You, because the Cross is the only way to be free according to the Word of God.

I found reading Galatians 3- 4 helps with understanding how the Law leads to Christ.

Galatians 3
[SUP]19 [/SUP]What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.



I would say more but I have to take care of family duties.

you see before we repent and are born again and receive the Holy Spirit we are put under the tutor of the Law to teach us God's way. afterwards we have God's Holy Spirit to teach us.

 

[cfultz3]

Will the uncalled for remarks ever cease?

Not as long as human nature says you have to fit in.

 

[homwardbound]

Well what does "born again" mean?

oh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Mat 9:16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.
Mat 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Act_26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

We are born again when we have truly experienced the above and thus WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.

Rom_6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Therefore we add to our faith...

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ.

2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Absolutely truth here this is what born again is. First of the flesh by a woman here on earth not by water babtism. for we are in water for up to the first nine months then born here on earth being taught to be good not bad and learnoing to get rewards by doing a good job in faking being good.
Therefore we need to die to this flesh in the Spirit of our minds through belief in God to do this for us so that God can rasie us from the dead and we be a new creation born again in the Spirit of God as what Paul describes and states that when in the Spirit of God there is no sin Romans 6:1-11 the verse 11 stating to believe now after the operation of God raises you back to life as he did his son that now you are dead to sin (flesh) I put flesh there because Christ at the cross condemened all sin to the flesh, and this is why we are to renew our minds to see all things from God's vantage point through the cross of Christ where all sin was taken away from God the Fathe'rs vanrtage point and this is done in us through believing God all the rest takes place and we are shown this if onlky we will believe and stop trying to do waht is right and when we do stop then God through us does it for us and God gets all the glory for doing in me, you you and you waht we could never do in and of ourselves, Thank you Skinski for sharing with me

 

[Enow]

I see Romans 7 as Paul the Pharisee before he was converted. It is not an unconverted worldly person who has no desire to follow God. Jesus told the parable of the sower and the seed fell on for different types of ground. Romans 7 is someone that knows God's Law and desires to follow His Law.
Romans 7:1 KJV
(1) Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Romans 7:22 KJV
(22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

The Pharisees also follow God's Law although in an incorrect way so Romans 7 is not someone of the world who has no desire to follow God's Law but, someone who is like the Pharisees. The early church they had an issue of some of the Pharisees who were part of the church teaching people had to keep the ceremonial laws to be saved, this is another part where Paul is addressing this issue teaching that we are not saved by keeping the law but, by faith in God. Keeping the Law is a result of faith not a means of salvation.

Paul's testimony of desiring to keep the law shows the futility of man's ability to do so which is why he has no confidence in the flesh in keeping the law before or after conversion: see Philippians 3rd chapter. So keeping the law is not a result of faith because that speaks of man's ability in keeping the law which is not of faith in the Son of God to do His work when man is doing it for Him in obtaining righteousness by the deeds of the law: Romans 10:1-5

To be dead to the law means we are not under the law to do them. To deny ourselves, is to recognize not only that we cannot save ourselves, but also we cannot make ourselves good or to do good even when we want to which is why Jesus said that no matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak... therefore as He said elsewhere... what is impossible with man, is possible with God which is why the just shall live by faith.

The point is to be clear in our witness in that we live by faith in the Son of God as our Good Shepherd in that He will enable us and empower us to follow Him and do His commandments in the NT that He taught us to do to be His disciples.

Too often in this religious zealousy of these latter days, too many christians are resorting to their own power in living the christian life by the flesh, and failing miserably or else hiding behind a false veneer of vanity of claiming to be following Him by keeping His commandments... both OT & NT, thus in the spirit of the Old Covenant rather than the New Covenant, and living a lie, using God's grace to sin.

If we seek to be justified in keeping the commandments, we will fail and always come short for by that "law" is the knowledge of sin. If we seek to live by faith in the Son of God that He will do His work in us so that we can follow Him, then His commandments serve as a guide as to what we need to bring before Him in prayer when we are not walking as we ought to walk or even more... talking as we ought to talk. This is how we get to know Him and the power of His resurrection when we stop keeping commitments, promises, vows, decisions, or whatever a believer may boast in his flesh about to others & thus deny ourselves as able to do any of that in the flesh so that we mean what we say to others as well as to ourselves and more importantly to our Good Shepherd when we trust Him to do His work in us to follow Him by faith.

Believers can overcome when they believe in the Son of God to do it. His words and His commandments in the NT which are higher than the works of the law in the OT because it goes to inside of the sinner where religious works cannot hide anything from Him...example.. he who lust after a woman, has committed adultery in his heart. Therefore, enough is enough with the Old Covenant as it has waxed away because mankind had its chance to prove themselves, especially through God's chosen people to live as His, which means it is NOW God's turn. Ta -dah!!!

Do we believe Him or not? Do we trust Him or not? And yet He invites the little children to freely come to Him and all they can do is trust the Lord at His word.

So for all of those religious christians out there... if living the christian life is too hard, maybe you need to hear His invitation again.

Matthew 11:[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

John 6:[SUP]28 [/SUP]Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? [SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Living by faith in Him and seeing ourselves following Him is His work in how we can get to know Him personally in our lives.

 

[Enow]

This is how we get to know Him and the power of His resurrection when we stop keeping commitments, promises, vows, decisions, or whatever a believer may boast in his flesh about to others & thus deny ourselves as able to do any of that in the flesh so that we mean what we say to others as well as to ourselves and more importantly to our Good Shepherd when we trust Him to do His work in us to follow Him by faith.

Believers can overcome when they believe in the Son of God to do it. His words and His commandments in the NT which are higher than the works of the law in the OT because it goes to inside of the sinner where religious works cannot hide anything from Him...example.. he who lust after a woman, has committed adultery in his heart. Therefore, enough is enough with the Old Covenant as it has waxed away because mankind had its chance to prove themselves, especially through God's chosen people to live as His, which means it is NOW God's turn. Ta -dah!!!

Do we believe Him or not? Do we trust Him or not? And yet He invites the little children to freely come to Him and all they can do is trust the Lord at His word.

So for all of those religious christians out there... if living the christian life is too hard, maybe you need to hear His invitation again.

Matthew 11:[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

John 6:[SUP]28 [/SUP]Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? [SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

So whatever sin you are having trouble with: make sure you are not keeping any provisions for the flesh to fulfill the lust thereof, asking Him to help you discern that to get rid of it or lead you away from it to something better or good to do.

1 John 2:[SUP]15 [/SUP]Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

So if your hobby is feeding that flesh, whethor it be comics books, a television show, music, or anything that sets your mind which is of the world where the love of the Father is not in them, especially when it is tempting you to sin, it's time for another hobby. He will let you know when you lust in your thoughts that you need His help to put that fire out.

Proverbs 6:[SUP]27 [/SUP]Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned?

Ephesians 6: [SUP]11 [/SUP]Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

2 Corinthians 10: [SUP]4 [/SUP](For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds [SUP]5 [/SUP]Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; [SUP]6 [/SUP]And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Philippians 4: [SUP]5 [/SUP]Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

Living by faith in Him and seeing ourselves following Him is His work in how we can get to know Him personally in our lives for which many will be giving Him thanks and the worship of Him will not be in vain.

 

[RedTent]

these new works are not his they are the works of the hidden man of his heart that he is listening to. The works are a by-product from his belief to serve Jesus. To serve one follows and hears the teachings from thier new heart in Christ Jesus. If it were his works or mine or yours you will be caught backed up in your sins and need a plummer Christ Jesus to clear your conscience again from thinking about sin period for Jesus took that all away at the cross in order to give new life in the believer as this man showed. the flesh and the Spirit are at war but I fought the law and The Spirit won I waived my white flag and went over to what the world calls enemy camp, where we are no longer under the Law, and found peace, Joy and righteousness in the Holy Ghost that Christ sent to us that began at the day of Pentecost, which does not mean that we have to have a spectacular experience in the roof shaking or anything like that of sort, for the day of belief we are sealed with that same Holy Ghost of promise, Eph.1:13

It is true that we are not under the law as far as obeying it without God. Even Satan could do everything the law says to do and not be saved. But on the other hand, if we are of God we listen to the law and we are as obedient as we can manage. Otherwise, we are not listening or are we led by the spirit of God within us.

 

[Laodicea]

Paul's testimony of desiring to keep the law shows the futility of man's ability to do so which is why he has no confidence in the flesh in keeping the law before or after conversion: see Philippians 3rd chapter. So keeping the law is not a result of faith because that speaks of man's ability in keeping the law which is not of faith in the Son of God to do His work when man is doing it for Him in obtaining righteousness by the deeds of the law: Romans 10:1-5

To be dead to the law means we are not under the law to do them. To deny ourselves, is to recognize not only that we cannot save ourselves, but also we cannot make ourselves good or to do good even when we want to which is why Jesus said that no matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak... therefore as He said elsewhere... what is impossible with man, is possible with God which is why the just shall live by faith.

The point is to be clear in our witness in that we live by faith in the Son of God as our Good Shepherd in that He will enable us and empower us to follow Him and do His commandments in the NT that He taught us to do to be His disciples.

Too often in this religious zealousy of these latter days, too many christians are resorting to their own power in living the christian life by the flesh, and failing miserably or else hiding behind a false veneer of vanity of claiming to be following Him by keeping His commandments... both OT & NT, thus in the spirit of the Old Covenant rather than the New Covenant, and living a lie, using God's grace to sin.

If we seek to be justified in keeping the commandments, we will fail and always come short for by that "law" is the knowledge of sin. If we seek to live by faith in the Son of God that He will do His work in us so that we can follow Him, then His commandments serve as a guide as to what we need to bring before Him in prayer when we are not walking as we ought to walk or even more... talking as we ought to talk. This is how we get to know Him and the power of His resurrection when we stop keeping commitments, promises, vows, decisions, or whatever a believer may boast in his flesh about to others & thus deny ourselves as able to do any of that in the flesh so that we mean what we say to others as well as to ourselves and more importantly to our Good Shepherd when we trust Him to do His work in us to follow Him by faith.

Believers can overcome when they believe in the Son of God to do it. His words and His commandments in the NT which are higher than the works of the law in the OT because it goes to inside of the sinner where religious works cannot hide anything from Him...example.. he who lust after a woman, has committed adultery in his heart. Therefore, enough is enough with the Old Covenant as it has waxed away because mankind had its chance to prove themselves, especially through God's chosen people to live as His, which means it is NOW God's turn. Ta -dah!!!

Do we believe Him or not? Do we trust Him or not? And yet He invites the little children to freely come to Him and all they can do is trust the Lord at His word.

So for all of those religious christians out there... if living the christian life is too hard, maybe you need to hear His invitation again.

Matthew 11:[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

John 6:[SUP]28 [/SUP]Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? [SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Living by faith in Him and seeing ourselves following Him is His work in how we can get to know Him personally in our lives.

Romans 7 should be read with Romans 8, remember there were no chapter divisions in the original.
Romans 8:1-4 KJV
(1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
(3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

So according to Romans 7 & 8 we fulfill the Law not by our own works but by walking after the Spirit. We are not saved by keeping the Law and can never be, but keeping the Law is a result of walking after the Spirit.

 

[homwardbound]

It is true that we are not under the law as far as obeying it without God. Even Satan could do everything the law says to do and not be saved. But on the other hand, if we are of God we listen to the law and we are as obedient as we can manage. Otherwise, we are not listening or are we led by the spirit of God within us.

Thank you Redtent, and I hear the law of liberty which is God's love 1 cor 13 living in and through me loving all God's way accordingto 1 Cor13 which accordingly I found out iod the fullfillment of the Law the whole law forat the end of 1 cor 13 it states all else will pass away and love (God's) will go on forever, thus WE take on his ypke it is easy and his burden for it is light (lite)

 

[mark54]

(4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

So according to Romans 7 & 8 we fulfill the Law not by our own works but by walking after the Spirit. We are not saved by keeping the Law and can never be, but keeping the Law is a result of walking after the Spirit.

And by walking after the Spirit the Christian does not have to concentrate on law and strive to obey it

For if you are led by the Spirit you are not under law
Gal5:18

Why not?

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law
Gal5:22


So the Christian does not fix their eyes on law, commandments but on Christ by the power of the Spirit within. The result of the fruit seen does not contradict any law of God, By saying what he did Paul is showing us we do not need to fix our eyes on commandments, but on from the heart looking to Christ and trusting him, and relying on the evidence of the fruit of the Spirit to be seen in our lives, fruit that contradicts no law of God, for the law now is within us, we simply look to Christ for what our hearts desire

The true sin is when we allow ourselves to be distracted from that

 

[homwardbound]

And by walking after the Spirit the Christian does not have to concentrate on law and strive to obey it

For if you are led by the Spirit you are not under law
Gal5:18

Why not?

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law
Gal5:22


So the Christian does not fix their eyes on law, commandments but on Christ by the power of the Spirit within. The result of the fruit seen does not contradict any law of God, By saying what he did Paul is showing us we do not need to fix our eyes on commandments, but on from the heart looking to Christ and trusting him, and relying on the evidence of the fruit of the Spirit to be seen in our lives, fruit that contradicts no law of God, for the law now is within us, we simply look to Christ for what our hearts desire

The true sin is when we allow ourselves to be distracted from that

simply put anything without Faith in Christ is sin actually anything without God's love is sin period

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

I thank all of you who have commented on this thread that I started. I only wanted to expound that our righteousness is a filthy rag before GOD. It is the righteousness of Jesus Christ that we rely upon. Also, that when we take our focus(that is to say our faith) off of that sacrifice and place it on what we are doing then we become in danger of falling into bondage. Bondage is what we were freed from when we got saved. Jesus said I have come that you may have life and life more abundantly. That is the opposite of bondage.

However, so many churches and preachers are teaching psychology and philosophy for a means of deliverance that it makes me sick. Of course they have large followings, for they are scratching itching ears.

WE NEED THE CROSS