Salvation is a Free Gift.

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Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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You such a mellow guy brother it’s a good quality I bet you are as cool as a cucumber when others panic 😂
I love a good picnic. Oh, you wrote panic. Sorry.

There is great peace to be had in Christ. I like what John Piper wrote even though I'm about to mangle it. It goes something like this:
Brokenness is when you find out that all there is is God. Peace is when you find that all you need is God. And joy is when you find out all you want is God.
I've known plenty of brokenness. I've reached the point where I do recognize all I need is God so I live at rest. I'm still pursuing joy.

And, I'm not cool as a cucumber yet, but I am as cool as the other side of the pillow.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,847
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God is gracious. There is not a time when He is not being gracious towards humanity. His grace is to be found in His providential care, in nature, in circumstances, in relationships, etc.
The grace that brings salvation is unique in that it employs faith. There is a supernatural element that attends salvation that is absent in the common grace that God provides to all. But because much of what God is doing in drawing the wayward one to Himself is done inwardly or the attendant circumstances are merely viewed as happenstance, much of the work of God in salvation is little realized by the new believer. This, accompanied by poor teaching on the subject, in my opinion, has robbed God of much of the glory of the salvation He has provided.
Yes this is why he sent out his word for us to hear with our ears believe in our hearts and confess with our mouths

the super natural is the creator who speaks creation forth like this

“And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That relationship between what he put God said and what comes to be , governs all that exists from then to now to eternity

For instance sometimes he speaks to creation itself and it moves

“And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the ship, so that it was now full.

And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish? And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still.

And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith? And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭4:37-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Other times he speaks to lepers

This man believes and so he came to Jesus believing but look at what moves the issue

“And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Imagine this leper who no one would touch who scared everyone having been touched by the hand of God who commanded his leperosy cleansed and it was so

Other times he commands evil spirit even they obey his command and even tbey know they must even they fear the coming judgement

“And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding. So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine. And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8:28-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He speaks forth life to the dead

“And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:43-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭19:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

…. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2-3, 10‬ ‭K
JV‬‬
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,518
1,416
113
God is gracious. There is not a time when He is not being gracious towards humanity. His grace is to be found in His providential care, in nature, in circumstances, in relationships, etc.
The grace that brings salvation is unique in that it employs faith. There is a supernatural element that attends salvation that is absent in the common grace that God provides to all. But because much of what God is doing in drawing the wayward one to Himself is done inwardly or the attendant circumstances are merely viewed as happenstance, much of the work of God in salvation is little realized by the new believer. This, accompanied by poor teaching on the subject, in my opinion, has robbed God of much of the glory of the salvation He has provided.
Here’s a little snippet from Spurgeon:

“The things of God are freely given. All the blessings of salvation are a gift. All the inheritance of the covenant is a gift. All that which comes by our Lord Jesus to save and sanctify men is a gift.”
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,518
1,416
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For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

- Romans 6:23
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,084
5,428
113
62
Yes this is why he sent out his word for us to hear with our ears believe in our hearts and confess with our mouths

the super natural is the creator who speaks creation forth like this

“And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That relationship between what he put God said and what comes to be , governs all that exists from then to now to eternity

For instance sometimes he speaks to creation itself and it moves

“And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the ship, so that it was now full.

And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish? And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still.

And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith? And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭4:37-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Other times he speaks to lepers

This man believes and so he came to Jesus believing but look at what moves the issue

“And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Imagine this leper who no one would touch who scared everyone having been touched by the hand of God who commanded his leperosy cleansed and it was so

Other times he commands evil spirit even they obey his command and even tbey know they must even they fear the coming judgement

“And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding. So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine. And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8:28-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He speaks forth life to the dead

“And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:43-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭19:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

…. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2-3, 10‬ ‭K
JV‬‬
It's interesting that you chose the story of Lazarus. Jesus indeed speaks forth words of life and Lazarus was made alive. I believe this is exactly what happens in salvation. And yet there were other dead people in the graves who did not come forth.
To me, this is what happens every Sunday in church. The words of Christ are proclaimed, and some come forth in life and others remain as they came. Both groups hear the same words.
What do you think accounts for the difference?
 
May 5, 2024
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In that case, it wouldn't be a free gift. Anything that someone must do to obtain it, makes it theirs only by their doing, and therefore, not a free gift. To be truly free, it must be imputed to someone, placed into their possession in spite of, and apart from, anything they may do, otherwise, it isn't free.

[Tit 3:5-7 KJV]
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

[1Co 1:30 KJV]
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

[2Pe 1:1 KJV]
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
If salvation is purely a free gift, and it is not because of good works and is simply the mercy of Jesus, then his mercy wins out because of his great love for us. The manifestation of that love would be that all will go to heaven. Do you believe that all men go to heaven because they are given the free gift of salvation (heaven) because of the beautiful mercy of Jesus Christ?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,847
5,162
113
It's interesting that you chose the story of Lazarus. Jesus indeed speaks forth words of life and Lazarus was made alive. I believe this is exactly what happens in salvation. And yet there were other dead people in the graves who did not come forth.
To me, this is what happens every Sunday in church. The words of Christ are proclaimed, and some come forth in life and others remain as they came. Both groups hear the same words.
What do you think accounts for the difference?
It really to me hardly ever happens usually I think this has happened and hardly anyone actually does share the word of Christ these days I think this was foretold 1900 years ago and came to pass long ago

a
notice the impact it has on believers not unbelievers but those who at first believe and then what happens ?

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The false prophets ofnisrael led israel astray and the false teachers of the church would lead Christian’s away

“preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you see how Satan has always destroyed people from the first time God spoke to a man a commandment he then works to get them to break Gods word

If your talking about believers and what holds us back from entering it’s when they hear that he’s calling for them to repent, usually that causes them to not enter into what he’s telling them

abut I don’t think his word is actually preached much so people can hear it honestly I think a lot of people are teaching thier version of salvstion theee days and going to Jesus teachings and following those has become “ salvation. By works and not grace “ to many modern church goers
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,292
482
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If salvation is purely a free gift, and it is not because of good works and is simply the mercy of Jesus, then his mercy wins out because of his great love for us. The manifestation of that love would be that all will go to heaven. Do you believe that all men go to heaven because they are given the free gift of salvation (heaven) because of the beautiful mercy of Jesus Christ?
Not sure I entirely understand your post. But no, I think that neither are all men given the gift nor do all go to heaven. The gift
is only given to those whom God had chosen to give the gift to, and they alone go to heaven.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,292
482
83
What an awesome question. My heart tells me, “oh yes!” What are your thoughts?
Dunno. I wonder about that every time I read a verse like that. But maybe because those saved are indwelled by God.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,298
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The original post I responded to seemed to say we are saved by grace and faith.
Not the one I responded to... And I went back through them to make sure that you had actually said we are saved by grace and not faith. Which is why I responded as I did.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,084
5,428
113
62
It really to me hardly ever happens usually I think this has happened and hardly anyone actually does share the word of Christ these days I think this was foretold 1900 years ago and came to pass long ago

a
notice the impact it has on believers not unbelievers but those who at first believe and then what happens ?

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The false prophets ofnisrael led israel astray and the false teachers of the church would lead Christian’s away

“preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you see how Satan has always destroyed people from the first time God spoke to a man a commandment he then works to get them to break Gods word

If your talking about believers and what holds us back from entering it’s when they hear that he’s calling for them to repent, usually that causes them to not enter into what he’s telling them

abut I don’t think his word is actually preached much so people can hear it honestly I think a lot of people are teaching thier version of salvstion theee days and going to Jesus teachings and following those has become “ salvation. By works and not grace “ to many modern church goers
So you believe the cause is false teaching and Satan's ploys? Perhaps. But not where God is actually at work. Jesus is busy building His church and nothing is hindering Him. In fact, when He speaks of Hell, He speaks of the gates of Hell. Hell is in a defensive position with it's gates closed and trying to keep Jesus from plucking brands out of the fire. It is Christ who is on the offensive this side of the cross. And while God seems to work gradually and patiently through history, remarkable gains have been made from a group of 120 who cowered in an upper room.