Seems to be a Contradiction in the Creation Story. Please Help me Understand
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I thought I would try making it easy, but I guess we'll do it this way.
The distance between two points is the same distance regardless of whether you have designations of what that distance is.
The Distance by route of I-80 between New York City and Los Angeles, will always be about 2900 miles (2905 according to google maps:New York, NY to San Francisco, CA - Google Maps) regardless of whether there's mile markers and signs or not.
This is just a matter of the Law of Identity, basic logic that is. Every Intro to Logic class will cover the three basic laws: Identity, Non-Contradiction, the Excluded Middle
I'm surprised this one has been a problem for you, as so far you had demonstrated yourself to be more thoughtful than most on these forums. This last post has not made well with that trend.
Well, you raise the question of how does one arive at a seven day creation if the earth did not exist prior to the naming of days. How can the day be a day, if there is no earth to rotate and distinguish Day 1 from Day 2? Well, 24 hours will still be 24 hours regardless of whether there is an earth to rotate or not. That alottment of time, or desigination of time is still going to be the same total amount regardless of what we call it, or what we measure it with. An inch will still be an inch, even if there are no marks on a ruler to desginate one from another. An inch is still an inch, even if we designate it as 2.54 CM.
Thus, one must conclude that the objection you raise is lacking authority. It is, however, a question that forces one to think, and that I appreciate as there are many on these threads who know not how to do that.
No objection.
God made the two seperately.
Earth:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
End of Day 1
Beginning of Day four:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, [SUP]15 [/SUP]and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. [SUP]16 [/SUP]God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. [SUP]17 [/SUP]God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, [SUP]18 [/SUP]to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
end of day four
Genesis is not arguing that stars form from planets.
The distance between two points is the same distance regardless of whether you have designations of what that distance is.
The Distance by route of I-80 between New York City and Los Angeles, will always be about 2900 miles (2905 according to google maps:New York, NY to San Francisco, CA - Google Maps) regardless of whether there's mile markers and signs or not.
This is just a matter of the Law of Identity, basic logic that is. Every Intro to Logic class will cover the three basic laws: Identity, Non-Contradiction, the Excluded Middle
I'm surprised this one has been a problem for you, as so far you had demonstrated yourself to be more thoughtful than most on these forums. This last post has not made well with that trend.
Well, you raise the question of how does one arive at a seven day creation if the earth did not exist prior to the naming of days. How can the day be a day, if there is no earth to rotate and distinguish Day 1 from Day 2? Well, 24 hours will still be 24 hours regardless of whether there is an earth to rotate or not. That alottment of time, or desigination of time is still going to be the same total amount regardless of what we call it, or what we measure it with. An inch will still be an inch, even if there are no marks on a ruler to desginate one from another. An inch is still an inch, even if we designate it as 2.54 CM.
Thus, one must conclude that the objection you raise is lacking authority. It is, however, a question that forces one to think, and that I appreciate as there are many on these threads who know not how to do that.
No objection.
God made the two seperately.
Earth:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
End of Day 1
Beginning of Day four:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, [SUP]15 [/SUP]and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. [SUP]16 [/SUP]God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. [SUP]17 [/SUP]God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, [SUP]18 [/SUP]to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
end of day four
Genesis is not arguing that stars form from planets.
Yeah thanks for that long winded lesson. I know the inch is still the distance whether there are markers or not.
Let's not forgot the Bible is the CLAIM not the PROOF. You can believe that a god made it in that order and then
I may ask who made god or where did god come from and we run around in circles. The bible also states that
the earth is flat and immovable. Wouldn't an all knowing god prevent this error from being in his book?
Let's not forgot the Bible is the CLAIM not the PROOF. You can believe that a god made it in that order and then
I may ask who made god or where did god come from and we run around in circles. The bible also states that
the earth is flat and immovable. Wouldn't an all knowing god prevent this error from being in his book?
1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”
Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”
Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”
Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”
Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"
"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world [The deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)"
"Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns." The world [Again, the deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 96:10)"
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"
The Earth has pillars?!
"He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble. (From the NIV Bible, Job 9:6)"
"Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:4)"
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)
Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)
Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)
Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)
Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV
All this does is just expose the authors' ignorance. Not surprised they got the sun and the earth formation wrong as well.
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"
"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world [The deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)"
"Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns." The world [Again, the deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 96:10)"
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"
The Earth has pillars?!
"He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble. (From the NIV Bible, Job 9:6)"
"Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:4)"
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)
Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)
Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)
Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)
Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV
All this does is just expose the authors' ignorance. Not surprised they got the sun and the earth formation wrong as well.
I thought I would try making it easy, but I guess we'll do it this way.
The distance between two points is the same distance regardless of whether you have designations of what that distance is.
The Distance by route of I-80 between New York City and Los Angeles, will always be about 2900 miles (2905 according to google maps:New York, NY to San Francisco, CA - Google Maps) regardless of whether there's mile markers and signs or not.
This is just a matter of the Law of Identity, basic logic that is. Every Intro to Logic class will cover the three basic laws: Identity, Non-Contradiction, the Excluded Middle
I'm surprised this one has been a problem for you, as so far you had demonstrated yourself to be more thoughtful than most on these forums. This last post has not made well with that trend.
Well, you raise the question of how does one arive at a seven day creation if the earth did not exist prior to the naming of days. How can the day be a day, if there is no earth to rotate and distinguish Day 1 from Day 2? Well, 24 hours will still be 24 hours regardless of whether there is an earth to rotate or not. That alottment of time, or desigination of time is still going to be the same total amount regardless of what we call it, or what we measure it with. An inch will still be an inch, even if there are no marks on a ruler to desginate one from another. An inch is still an inch, even if we designate it as 2.54 CM.
Thus, one must conclude that the objection you raise is lacking authority. It is, however, a question that forces one to think, and that I appreciate as there are many on these threads who know not how to do that.
No objection.
God made the two seperately.
Earth:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
End of Day 1
Beginning of Day four:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, [SUP]15 [/SUP]and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. [SUP]16 [/SUP]God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. [SUP]17 [/SUP]God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, [SUP]18 [/SUP]to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
end of day four
Genesis is not arguing that stars form from planets.
The distance between two points is the same distance regardless of whether you have designations of what that distance is.
The Distance by route of I-80 between New York City and Los Angeles, will always be about 2900 miles (2905 according to google maps:New York, NY to San Francisco, CA - Google Maps) regardless of whether there's mile markers and signs or not.
This is just a matter of the Law of Identity, basic logic that is. Every Intro to Logic class will cover the three basic laws: Identity, Non-Contradiction, the Excluded Middle
I'm surprised this one has been a problem for you, as so far you had demonstrated yourself to be more thoughtful than most on these forums. This last post has not made well with that trend.
Well, you raise the question of how does one arive at a seven day creation if the earth did not exist prior to the naming of days. How can the day be a day, if there is no earth to rotate and distinguish Day 1 from Day 2? Well, 24 hours will still be 24 hours regardless of whether there is an earth to rotate or not. That alottment of time, or desigination of time is still going to be the same total amount regardless of what we call it, or what we measure it with. An inch will still be an inch, even if there are no marks on a ruler to desginate one from another. An inch is still an inch, even if we designate it as 2.54 CM.
Thus, one must conclude that the objection you raise is lacking authority. It is, however, a question that forces one to think, and that I appreciate as there are many on these threads who know not how to do that.
No objection.
God made the two seperately.
Earth:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
End of Day 1
Beginning of Day four:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, [SUP]15 [/SUP]and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. [SUP]16 [/SUP]God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. [SUP]17 [/SUP]God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, [SUP]18 [/SUP]to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
end of day four
Genesis is not arguing that stars form from planets.
Traveling between New York City and Los Angeles takes far less time by plane than it does by car.
Now the earth is traveling through space at 66,700 miles per hour and for us to travel the same distance by means of nature and by that I mean walking, sailing or horse and cart would take years.
That is only for one hour of space time which becomes many years in earth time to travel the same distance between two fixed points. So although God may have created the heaven and the earth in six celestial days, it would take millions of years in earth time. I believe it is called the theory of relativity?
So six days in God's time equals millions of years in our time, and you know what the Bible says about one day being like a thousand years. This is the point that is being made.
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Really terminator the bible teaches that the Earth is flat. what about this.
Isaiah 40:22It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Or did you miss it.
Isaiah 40:22It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Or did you miss it.
Being a little more critical of your criticism would be nice. As Isaiah 40:22 states, the earth is suddenly a circle now and circles don't have corners. In fact, in Job the earth is mentioned as having pillars and then in another place is mentioned as being hung on nothing. Rather than these being contradictory theories about the cosmos I think we could assume it's largely poetic license.
I remember I did a study of the garden scene in Genesis once, and it yielded some interesting results. I came to the conclusion that it was both allegorical and literal much how God made prophets prophesy through their actions while using certain props to illustrate prophecy. Heck, there's going to be another tree of life in the millennial reign, right? And that one appears to be very literal because of the amount of detail that the Bible goes into when describing it. So what makes us think the first tree of life was only metaphor and not also some literal type like the sacrifices were very literal but also pointed to something greater?
Anyway, it's hard to know what's meant in these passages - which is poetic and which is literal. I've watched videos that advocated the theory of the existence of pillar-like structures under the earth's crust. So what's to say one's poetic and one's literal? Maybe both are one way or the other. It seems fruitless to try to draw any conclusions without understanding Hebrew, the historical context, the prevailing world view at that time, the type of rhetoric used in their language, what poetry meant to them, etc.
Anyway, it's hard to know what's meant in these passages - which is poetic and which is literal. I've watched videos that advocated the theory of the existence of pillar-like structures under the earth's crust. So what's to say one's poetic and one's literal? Maybe both are one way or the other. It seems fruitless to try to draw any conclusions without understanding Hebrew, the historical context, the prevailing world view at that time, the type of rhetoric used in their language, what poetry meant to them, etc.
You are right, and there are a lot of Hebrew idioms in the Bible as well which I'm not familiar with and I think their meaning has become lost over the years so we need to be on our guard with those as well. 
My own personal view about the Garden of Eden, bearing in mind, there is no tree of knowledge or tree of life and neither are there any talking snakes is that it is an Old Testament parable to teach us that death comes through disobedience to God, which is perfectly true and it is a good lesson to learn and hold to in my opinion.
My own personal view about the Garden of Eden, bearing in mind, there is no tree of knowledge or tree of life and neither are there any talking snakes is that it is an Old Testament parable to teach us that death comes through disobedience to God, which is perfectly true and it is a good lesson to learn and hold to in my opinion.
Don't forget Job 22:14 - Thick clouds [are] a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven.
The same word for "circuit" here is that used for "circle" in the previous passage. So what way does the circuit of heaven run? The flow of stars and the rising and setting of the sun all occur perpendicular to the circle of the earth when viewed in the Middle East. And if you have two circles perpendicular to each other you likely have a globe. Or at least a snow globe. Thus my previous conclusion that the world in Job may have been viewed more like a snow globe.
The same word for "circuit" here is that used for "circle" in the previous passage. So what way does the circuit of heaven run? The flow of stars and the rising and setting of the sun all occur perpendicular to the circle of the earth when viewed in the Middle East. And if you have two circles perpendicular to each other you likely have a globe. Or at least a snow globe. Thus my previous conclusion that the world in Job may have been viewed more like a snow globe.
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Can I just say, and I am sorry to keep butting in but I only want to help and try to clear things up if I can, but when they talk about the world they are talking about their world of Israel and not the whole globe, so if you take a stretch of land then it does appear to be flat and they aren't wrong.
Can I just say, and I am sorry to keep butting in but I only want to help and try to clear things up if I can, but when they talk about the world they are talking about their world of Israel and not the whole globe, so if you take a stretch of land then it does appear to be flat and they aren't wrong.