Seperation of Church and State

[SirSolaScriptura]

I wholeheartedly believe in separation of church and state, the temporal governments and the Kingdom of Heaven:

"Church and State should be independent of each other:—he speaks of the duty of protesting “against the profanation of Christ’s kingdom, by that double usurpation, the interference of the Church in temporals, of the State in spirituals,” p. 191; and, secondly, that the Church may justly and by right retain its property, though separated from the State. “The clergy,” he says, p. 133, “though they ought not to be the hired servants of the Civil Magistrate, may justly retain their revenues; and the State, though it has no right of interference in spiritual concerns." (The Apologia Pro Vita Sua, John Henry Newman, Chapter One, Dove Thrift Editions).

 

[Dino246]

Separation of church and state is actually a terrible idea.

While the government should have no influence in the Church, the Church should have significant influence within the government... unofficially, of course.

 

[SirSolaScriptura]

Separation of church and state is actually a terrible idea.

While the government should have no influence in the Church, the Church should have significant influence within the government... unofficially, of course.

And yet look how corrupt in history things got, in Constantinople The Emperor played Game of Thrones, poking people's eyes out, lording over clergy and laity, putting people in nunneries and appointing bishops, and calling councils, and controlling armies and politics. Then you have when Popes had the most temporal power, controlling kings and all the disasters that brought, like the Spanish Inquisition that through the Kingdom of Spain deported people enmass, burned people, and did horrible tortures.

If the Church is intertwined in the State, it can then be beholden to the State and its gospel controlled by the State. In China, the offical churches are controlled by CCP and cannot preach the gospel in Scripture.

 

[Dino246]

And yet look how corrupt in history things got, in Constantinople The Emperor played Game of Thrones, poking people's eyes out, lording over clergy and laity, putting people in nunneries and appointing bishops, and calling councils, and controlling armies and politics. Then you have when Popes had the most temporal power, controlling kings and all the disasters that brought, like the Spanish Inquisition that through the Kingdom of Spain deported people enmass, burned people, and did horrible tortures.

If the Church is intertwined in the State, it can then be beholden to the State and its gospel controlled by the State. In China, the offical churches are controlled by CCP and cannot preach the gospel in Scripture.

Methinks you read my comment exactly backwards. What you describe is government involvement in religion, not Church influence in government. The popes were never "Church" despite their self-aggrandizement, nor were the Catholics who foisted the anti-Semitic Inquisition.

Church influence in government is not the influence of organized bodies of believers ("denominations") but rather solid Christians speaking to leaders and, as the Lord leads, seeking to be involved in government.

 

[Intersection]

Methinks you read my comment exactly backwards. What you describe is government involvement in religion, not Church influence in government. The popes were never "Church" despite their self-aggrandizement, nor were the Catholics who foisted the anti-Semitic Inquisition.

Church influence in government is not the influence of organized bodies of believers ("denominations") but rather solid Christians speaking to leaders and, as the Lord leads, seeking to be involved in government.

Do you believe correct Christianity is denominational or nondenominational?

 

[Dino246]

Do you believe correct Christianity is denominational or nondenominational?

I believe yours is yet another bait question intended to set you up to condemn others while refusing to answer even the simplest questions asked of you.

 

[Intersection]

I believe yours is yet another bait question intended to set you up to condemn others while refusing to answer even the simplest questions asked of you.

I am nondenominational.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

And yet look how corrupt in history things got, in Constantinople The Emperor played Game of Thrones, poking people's eyes out, lording over clergy and laity, putting people in nunneries and appointing bishops, and calling councils, and controlling armies and politics. Then you have when Popes had the most temporal power, controlling kings and all the disasters that brought, like the Spanish Inquisition that through the Kingdom of Spain deported people enmass, burned people, and did horrible tortures.

If the Church is intertwined in the State, it can then be beholden to the State and its gospel controlled by the State. In China, the offical churches are controlled by CCP and cannot preach the gospel in Scripture.

The antichrist is going to use religion as a draw to himself. Remember that he will do some sort of treaty or agreement that will allow the Jewish daily sacrifices to be started again, while the False Prophet will combine all religions into one world wide ecumenical entity. Then 3-1/2 years from that time, the antichrist will abolish the daily sacrifices, defile the holy of holies and declare himself gold. Then the False Prophet will try to enforce the mark of the beast.

I think there can only be perfect balance of church and state when Jesus comes back to rule the world, so I don't think much of how it's being handled until He returns.


🐞

 

[SirSolaScriptura]

The antichrist is going to use religion as a draw to himself. Remember that he will do some sort of treaty or agreement that will allow the Jewish daily sacrifices to be started again, while the False Prophet will combine all religions into one world wide ecumenical entity. Then 3-1/2 years from that time, the antichrist will abolish the daily sacrifices, defile the holy of holies and declare himself gold. Then the False Prophet will try to enforce the mark of the beast.

I think there can only be perfect balance of church and state when Jesus comes back to rule the world, so I don't think much of how it's being handled until He returns.


🐞

Indeed you are quote 2 Thessalonians 2:1-11.

 

[Intersection]

What do you believe? What is the correct definition of a Christian denomination? Are so-called christian denominations of God or man?