Stuck on evolution

[trust_in_the_name]

Thanks for reminding me, I forgot about the second law of thermodynamics.

No problem. The second law of thermodynamics is a statistical law which tells us that the total entropy (disorder) in a closed system tends toward higher, not lower, entropy.

 

[trust_in_the_name]

I completely disagree with an above poster. It is NOT valid for Christians to hold the view that Evolution is a valid theory in any way.

Trying to say Evolution is in any way compatible with Scripture is a common modern heresy known as 'theistic Evolution'. In most Christian circles it is also known as 'progressive creationism'. It doesn't matter what you call it, it is false, period.

There are so many arguments against the point of view that these can be compatible, but we really only need some basic info to show that Christianity/the Bible are not compatible with Evolution.

I will only post one reason here for time's sake, but if need be we can continue this discussion further.

Let me explain in a simple way... Evolution involves 'survival of the fittest'. This requires for Death to occur to weaker lifeforms, and for more fit ones to continue on in order to pass on their genes. This is common knowledge, and it is completely incompatible:

We know from the Bible that the wages of Sin is Death.

Death did not enter the world until the Fall, after Adam and Eve sinned.

If there was no Death until Sin and the Fall, it is simply not possible to have man evolve from anything to that point. Period.

When scripture tells us that the wages of sin is death, it is referring not to biological death but to spiritual death, eternal separation from God.

The Bible is true and right. Scripture stands on it's own authority on this subject and all others. Trying to mix Evolution with Biblical faith quickly leads to other compromises of the text, and further heresy.

If you want some awesome information on this and other creationists related topics, please refer your friend to an awesome ministry known as Answers in Genesis. Answers in Genesis - Creation, Evolution, Christian Apologetics , another page I love that discusses these topics was made by a brilliant engineer and marketing guru Perry Marshall. No, he's not a scientist himself but his arguments have yet to be refuted. That page is here: Perry Marshall - Origin of the Universe

These ministries are great examples of people combating this modern heresy. It is spreading very rapidly these days because of heretical groups who claim to be Christian, but in fact promote a plethora of heresies under a Christian 'banner'. The most bothersome is known as BioLogos, but I will not link them since they are very dangerous and filled with false teachings.

 

[Solidfaith]

When scripture tells us that the wages of sin is death, it is referring not to biological death but to spiritual death, eternal separation from God.

Just wondering... are you a progressive creationist? This is the type of argument often used from that camp.

I'm surprised you would deny the full scope of the effect of Sin according to Scripture...

The Wages of Sin is Death.

Would you like to explain what causes physical Death then if you disagree?

I would love to be educated on this as it is pretty important to me; I don't want to be in error on this subject, thanks!

 

[trust_in_the_name]

Also, spiritual death doesn't have anything to do with animals. People are moral, created in the image of God. Animals are amoral; they cannot sin, and in fact the concept does not even apply to them.

 

[trust_in_the_name]

Just wondering... are you a progressive creationist? This is the type of argument often used from that camp.

I don't know what that is.

I'm surprised you would deny the full scope of the effect of Sin according to Scripture...

The Wages of Sin is Death.

Would you like to explain what causes physical Death then if you disagree?

I can give an example. Stepping out into the street in front of a bus might cause physical death. Or, being eaten by piranhas.

I would love to be educated on this as it is pretty important to me; I don't want to be in error on this subject, thanks!

 

[Solidfaith]

I don't know what that is.



I can give an example. Stepping out into the street in front of a bus might cause physical death. Or, being eaten by piranhas.

It's simple... do you believe there is any validity in Evolution theory?

Are you a Christian?

As for your examples, both are lacking. According to the Bible, animals didn't eat each other or people until the Fall. In fact, once all is said and done - the Lion will again lie down with the Lamb. Originally, before the Fall, animals had no need to eat one another, or people. People also had no reason to eat animals, the fruit in the Garden was beyond sufficient; but as we can see as Scripture unfolds, it became wholly acceptable for us to do so after the Fall.

As for the bus, if we weren't in a Fallen world, we wouldn't need busses to begin with. On top of that - are you still contending that Sin and/or God don't have a direct link to mankind's Deaths?! I don't see how you could say that God and man's Sin is not directly related, even in the cases of 'accidents'.

Is God Provident and Sovereign to you, or not?

Are your days numbered by God, or not?

Is chance and the natural world more directly related to man's Deaths than God's Will is?

If you could bring me some Scripture to prove that Sin does not cause Death, that would be quite nice at this point.

Thanks!

 

[trust_in_the_name]

It's simple... do you believe there is any validity in Evolution theory?

Answered in a previous post.

Are you a Christian?

Answered in a previous post.

As for your examples, both are lacking. According to the Bible, animals didn't eat each other or people until the Fall.

Where's that?

In fact, once all is said and done - the Lion will again lie down with the Lamb. Originally, before the Fall, animals had no need to eat one another, or people.

What did carnivores eat?

People also had no reason to eat animals, the fruit in the Garden was beyond sufficient; but as we can see as Scripture unfolds, it became wholly acceptable for us to do so after the Fall.

As for the bus, if we weren't in a Fallen world, we wouldn't need busses to begin with.

Why not?

On top of that - are you still contending that Sin and/or God don't have a direct link to mankind's Deaths?!

Do you mean biological death, or spiritual death? Or do you think biological and spiritual death are the same thing?

I don't see how you could say that God and man's Sin is not directly related,

I didn't.

even in the cases of 'accidents'.

I'm not getting you here. What do accidents have to do with sin?

Is God Provident and Sovereign to you, or not?

This is a yes; it's taught many places in scripture.

Are your days numbered by God, or not?

Is chance and the natural world more directly related to man's Deaths than God's Will is?

If he is sovereign then the results of chance and the natural world and God's will are one and the same.

If you could bring me some Scripture to prove that Sin does not cause Death, that would be quite nice at this point.

Thanks!

 

[Crazy4GODword]

wow friends what happening here......

 

[Solidfaith]

Ellie:
But when they consider Chrisitanity, they are "stuck on the evolution thing". They are highly interested in science and history and are finding it hard to get passed this in order to fully commit themselves to Christ.


trust_in_the_name:
As a follower of Christ, I also believe that science yields accurate information about the physical world. I've found no problem between the two whatsoever.

The "evolution thing" is not something your friend has any reason to be stuck up on. The theory of evolution is a vital, indispensible tool used by working scientists on a daily basis to make real, lasting contributions to the quality of life of people everywhere, and if your friend has an interest in science or a related field (such as mathematics, engineering, or medicine), she should pursue it.

Believing in Christ doesn't mean disbelieving in science.

Ok, I see here now; you are a progressive creationists/theistic evolutionist.

I have decided to not continue this conversation as it is now defeating the OP's point of what she needed.

We will not be able to resolve this conflict of ideals we have. I will never be able to agree with you that there is any compatibility between Evolution theory and the Bible; and I wouldn't expect you to all of a sudden hold the Bible in the highest authority either.

I think for the sake of the thread itself we should stop as it's becoming an argument and the OP said she didn't want that in this thread.

If you want to discuss this further in some other place, I'm more than willing to do so, thanks for the posts and the exchange it has been interesting. I hope you have a great day, God Bless!

 

[estrangedone]

Evolution is more of a mental and technological thing, Often humans waste soo much time looking for a complex answer when the simple, and best answer is right in front of them.

Ellie... Just live life as a christian, and she will see, if not straight away, then eventually, that even though science says directly that there is no God, science, (Law Of Conservation [Which proves itself wrong by the way] and Laws of scientific equity counter evolution) cannot disprove God.

The law of scientific equity means that things like evolution progress at a uniform rate... Following that and the theory of evolution itself, There should be no apes, and should be no mammals full stop. Anyway, ignore my arguments, These are apparently invalid arguments against macro-evolutionbecause evolutionists do not want to hear their own excuses used to prove them wrong.

Evolution is only truly provable as micro-evolution. such as in technology, and human mindset

 

[trust_in_the_name]

Ok, I see here now; you are a progressive creationists/theistic evolutionist.

I have decided to not continue this conversation as it is now defeating the OP's point of what she needed.

We will not be able to resolve this conflict of ideals we have. I will never be able to agree with you that there is any compatibility between Evolution theory and the Bible; and I wouldn't expect you to all of a sudden hold the Bible in the highest authority either.

I think for the sake of the thread itself we should stop as it's becoming an argument and the OP said she didn't want that in this thread.

It's no argument for me. The OP did say she didn't want a debate, though, so sure I'm down to end those lines of discussion.

If you want to discuss this further in some other place, I'm more than willing to do so, thanks for the posts and the exchange it has been interesting. I hope you have a great day, God Bless!

 

[trust_in_the_name]

Evolution is more of a mental and technological thing, Often humans waste soo much time looking for a complex answer when the simple, and best answer is right in front of them.

Ellie... Just live life as a christian, and she will see, if not straight away, then eventually, that even though science says directly that there is no God,

Science doesn't say that there is no God. Science tells us about physical things, things which we can observe with our physical senses (such as sight), for example: stars, electricity, orbits, reptiles, atoms, chemicals, galaxies, forces, cells, lead, magnetism, electrons, gravity, tin, energy, protons, black holes, alloys, molecules, birds, gold, proteins, neutrons, heat. Science only deals with these kinds of things. It's not intended for or cut out for addressing things that are spiritually discerned, such as God.

science, (Law Of Conservation [Which proves itself wrong by the way] and Laws of scientific equity counter evolution) cannot disprove God.

You're right about that: science can't disprove God.

The law of scientific equity means that things like evolution progress at a uniform rate... Following that and the theory of evolution itself, There should be no apes, and should be no mammals full stop.

One of the problems here is that there is no such law. In nature we find things which change at a constant rate, as well as things which change at a variable rate. (Incidentally, rates of change are one of the main subjects studied in calculus: a rate of change is a derivative.)

Anyway, ignore my arguments, These are apparently invalid arguments against macro-evolutionbecause evolutionists do not want to hear their own excuses used to prove them wrong.

Evolution is only truly provable as micro-evolution. such as in technology, and human mindset

 

[Credo_ut_Intelligam]

Science doesn't say that there is no God. Science tells us about physical things, things which we can observe with our physical senses (such as sight), for example: stars, electricity, orbits, reptiles, atoms, chemicals, galaxies, forces, cells, lead, magnetism, electrons, gravity, tin, energy, protons, black holes, alloys, molecules, birds, gold, proteins, neutrons, heat. Science only deals with these kinds of things. It's not intended for or cut out for addressing things that are spiritually discerned, such as God.

You're right about that: science can't disprove God.

Actually the scientist and atheist Richard Dawkins says that the God question is a scientific issue.

But this only goes to show that there is no agreement about what counts and doesn't count as science (ID Theory? Creation Science? God?) among scientists or philosophers of science... that's probably also because there is no such thing as *the* scientific method.