Ten toes, ten horns, ten kings

peterT · Oct 3, 2011

The ten toes of Daniel 2. And the ten horns of Daniel 7 and the ten kings of Rv 17 are all talking about the same thing.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Daniel 2;41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.42 And [as] the toes of the feet [were] part of iron, and part of clay, [so] the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

journey41 · Oct 3, 2011

peterT said:

The ten toes of Daniel 2. And the ten horns of Daniel 7 and the ten kings of Rv 17 are all talking about the same thing.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Daniel 2;41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.42 And [as] the toes of the feet [were] part of iron, and part of clay, [so] the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Yes they are Peter. That is correct. All referring to that LAST KINGDOM that will exist on Christs return. This last kingdom is the FIRST BEAST that arises in Rev 13 and is the new system that is coming (New World Order)

zone · Oct 3, 2011

peterT said:

nope.

Daniel 2;41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.42 And [as] the toes of the feet [were] part of iron, and part of clay, [so] the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

this is Caesars and the Herods, and applied to 70AD.

the red part is about Christ's FIRST ADVENT and the establisment of the church.

gotime · Oct 4, 2011

10 toes is an assumptive suggestion. nowhere does it give the number of toes. We often assume this because we know that we all have ten toes. well most of us. but the Bible does not specify the number thus the toes themselves can be symbolic but the number 10 attached to it is not biblical but rather assumption.

Blessings

journey41 · Oct 4, 2011

gotime said:

Blessings to you too. Yes it can be an assumption. People can say the existence of God and Jesus is an assumption, but the spirit revealed to us that their existence is true....The spirit of God works in mysterious ways. It is not a mystery once we find the answer. Every word that God speaks is spirit, and the the spirit of God reveals many things. The answers are in his words, not in the air. His word is truth and the answers are contained in this. Every thing is not laid out plainly for us because God wants us to search. We have to connect the dots.

The image in Daniel represents the major kindoms that have ruled from King Nebs time (babylon/the head) right through to the last kingdom (the toes). Jesus will come during the existence of the last kingdom, which has not come yet. When it does come, evil will have reached it's peak.

Daniel 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up

So, during the rule of this last kingdom, that stone that is cut out from the mountain (Gods kingdom) is Christ. Christ will destroy that last kingdom, without hands (with his word) and establish his own kingdom.

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

....In the days of these kings....Not King, but kings. How many kings?

Revelations 13 makes it more clear. It tells us that there will be a beast with 10 horns. Revelations reveals the times of the end. It is refering to this horrible last kingdom which will arise and if it has 10 horns, then it will have 10 leaders that unite as one very powerful empire. The last kingdom in Daniel doesn't mention the number of toes on the feet of the image, but it does say that it will consist of iron and clay. So it means that they will mingle, but not stick. So how many of these leaders exist on the toes. Go to Rev again and you have your answer.

zone · Oct 4, 2011

journey41 said:

Psalm 2:9 You will rule them with an iron scepter; you will dash them to pieces like pottery."

Isaiah 8:9 Raise the war cry, you nations, and be shattered! Listen, all you distant lands. Prepare for battle, and be shattered! Prepare for battle, and be shattered!

Isaiah 60:12 For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish; it will be utterly ruined.

Daniel 2:33 its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay.

Daniel 2:44 "In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.

Daniel 2:45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands--a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces. "The great God has shown the king what will take place in the future. The dream is true and the interpretation is trustworthy."

future....to Daniel....OR, we could choose dispensation theology, and say Jesus ISN'T KING NOW, the Kingdom is POSTPONED until......what? 1,000 years AFTER He says He comes to Judge and THAT'S IT?

what rock? what mountain?
what kingdom?

Daniel 2:34
As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces.

uh......did daniel have more than one vision?
was he visited by an angel?

how many heads/mountains/hills, kings are actually mentioned in Daniel....we add 7 in Daniel that HE NEVER SAW.?
are we playing dispy church with DAN/REV/DAN/REV/DAN/REV?

what was he told here?

Daniel 9
20And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God; 21Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. 22And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. 23At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

ANYONE WHO DENIES DANIEL 9 WAS FULFILLED BY JESUS AT THE FIRST ADVENT DENIES HE IS KING LAMB AND MESSIAH IS IN UNBELIEF, and believes in some other christ.

peterT · Oct 4, 2011

zone said:

nope.

Daniel 2;41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.42 And [as] the toes of the feet [were] part of iron, and part of clay, [so] the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

this is Caesars and the Herods, and applied to 70AD.

the red part is about Christ's FIRST ADVENT and the establisment of the church.

Daniel 2:28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;

It’s an end time dream

zone · Oct 4, 2011

peterT said:

huh?

latter days

just like that you build an entire theology? when did daniel live? BEFORE OR AFTER JESUS?

What shall be in the latter days - Greek ἐπ ̓ ἐσχάτων τῶν ἡμερῶν ep' eschatōn tōn hēmerōn - "in the last days." Vulgate, in novissimis temporibus - "in the last times." Chaldee, יומיא באחרית be'achărı̂yth yômayâ' - "in the after days;" or, as Faber expresses it, "in the afterhood of days." The phrase means what we should express by saying, "hereafter - in future times - in time to come." This phrase often has special reference to the times of the Messiah, as the last dispensation of things on the earth, or as that under which the affairs of the world will be wound up. Compare the notes at Isaiah 2:2. It does not appear, however, to be used in that sense here, but it denotes merely "future" times. The phrase "the latter days," therefore, does not exactly convey the sense of the original. It is "future" days rather than "latter" days.

peterT · Oct 4, 2011

zone said:

It just happens that in the end in the latter days that Jesus comes and is the rock and destroyers everything and sets up house.

Daniel 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

It sounds like the end of man’s rule and Jesus becoming the ruler of the whole earth in the latter days to me.

zone · Oct 4, 2011

peterT said:

this is about the kingdoms of the metal-man.
the ones listed are NOT the eschatological "kings" of Revelation. two separate 7's!

the metal man toes were ceasars and herods, and all the kingdoms before them, including them WERE smashed by Christ at The FIRST ADVENT, the consummation of the toes broken was 70AD, with rome shortly after.

the STONE (Jesus) was the CHIEF CORNERSTONE WHO WAS LAID once for all to BUILD HIS CHURCH - MOUNT ZION, and it has nearly filled the whole earth!

when the Gospel has gone to the very last one He intends, then the end will come, and the Kingdom which is underway NOW, in heaven and on earth, will be gathered and made ONE for eternity AT THE SECOND ADVENT, new heaven, new earth, new jerusalem.

there is no literal future 1,000 years....its IMPOSSIBLE. do the math.

Slepsog4 · Oct 4, 2011

Tis true... Daniel referreth not to the toes be they 10 or more or less. Thus it behooveth us not to extrapolate on that which the Bible is silent. One mightest find himself twisting the scriptures.

The days of those kings (per Daniel) is about the 4th world empire beginning with Nebuchadnezzar and ending with the Roman Empire of the first century when Jesus the Messiah did come and did establish the church.

journey41 · Oct 4, 2011

zone said:

Who's them that Christ will rule with an iron scepter? Sounds pretty strict, almost like military style.

Isaiah 8:9 Raise the war cry, you nations, and be shattered! Listen, all you distant lands. Prepare for battle, and be shattered! Prepare for battle, and be shattered!

Isaiah 13:4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as a great people, a tumultous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the Lord of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.

Isaiah 13:5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the Lord, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.

Isaiah 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

When will this happen? It says nations will be ruined. Their cities will be destroyed.

Iron is stronger than clay and iron does not stick to clay, but they are all part of the same feet - the last kingdom that will exist on Christ's return. (new world order)

Daniel 2:44 "In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.

Daniel 2:45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands--a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces. "The great God has shown the king what will take place in the future. The dream is true and the interpretation is trustworthy."

Future to Daniel as he was in Babylonian Empire. The other kingdoms of the statue have been fulfilled so far......medo/persian empire, greecian empire, roman empire, but the last one has not come yet. The whole image represents Babylon and the empires that came out of her. She will be destroyed at Christs coming.

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean bird.

Rev 18:21 .....Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

The system of Babylon will be no more. A new system comes at Christs 2nd coming.

Christ is that rock. Mountain means kingdom. This particular kingdom that the rock was cut out from is the Kingdom of Heaven.

The whole system of Babylon is now broken.

Yes, Daniel had many visions. But to start with Neb had the visions & Daniel only interpreted it. He interpreted another vision in Ch 4:10 and interpreted what happened to King Belshazzar (Nebs son) in Ch 5.
Daniel had a vision in Ch 7 - the four beasts
Daniel had a vision in Ch8 - the ram and the goat (8:20-21) This connects to the statue. Alexander conquering Medo Persia, then Alexander dying and his empire being divided between his four generals. (Dan 8:22) And in the vision the little horn appears and he is the one that takes away the daily sacrifice and performs the abomination of desolation.

Angel Gabriel appears in Daniel 8:16 - Gabriel interprets the dream to Daniel

Daniel prays to understand Jeremiahs vision in Ch9 then it is revealed to him in 9:24-27

Daniel had an angel appear to him in Ch10:5
The angel explains the vision in ch11-12

One head, the king of Babylon. Top of the image
One mountain, the one cut out of the rock
10 kings - Daniel 7:24

What do you mean? Daniel saw the future from his time. The image reveals 5 kingdoms
1. Babylon
2. Medo/Persia
3. Grecia
4. Rome
5. End time kingdom (the feet)

But there were two kingdoms that existed before Babylon
6. Egypt
7. Assyrian

They go together. Rev and Daniel. Hand in hand.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof......

The future visions of Daniel can only be understood with the book of Revelations, and visa versa.

I will answer the last question later tonight as I am late for an appointment.

Laodicea · Oct 5, 2011

peterT said:

The ten toes of Daniel 2. And the ten horns of Daniel 7 and the ten kings of Rv 17 are all talking about the same thing.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Daniel 2;41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.42 And [as] the toes of the feet [were] part of iron, and part of clay, [so] the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

If we look at the prophecy of Daniel 2 the 2nd kingdom happened immediately after the 1st, the third happened immediately after the 2nd, the 4th (Rome) happened immediately after the 3rd. There was no gap between kingdoms so then the 10 kings must happen immediately after Rome fell in 476 AD.

journey41 · Oct 5, 2011

[/QUOTE]Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy (Daniels people, the Jews) people and upon thy holy city (Jerusalem) to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to SEAL UP the vision and prophesy, and to anoint the Most Holy.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem (King Darius commandment) on to the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks and three score and two weeks. The street shall be built again and the wall even in troublous times.

The street - the way to God is opened, and the witnessing going on till today, but we have not reached the true knowledge, it will only come during the 1000 years reign.

Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain (kingdom/1000 year reign); for the earth SHALL BE FULL, of KNOWLEDGE of the Lord, as the WATERS COVER THE SEA. (so, full knowledge is not now, but to come)

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will SEND a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor thirst of water, BUT OF HEARING THE WORDS OF THE LORD. (it is still happening today)

NOW BACK TO DANIEL
Daniel 9:26 After three score and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off (crucifixion) but not forhimself (for us) and the people of the prince (Roman Prince) that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary (temple destroyed by Roman Prince - Titus in 70AD) ; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war (that war) desolations are determined.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: And in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. (Jesus causing the sacrifice to cease - no more sacrifices. He is the sacrifice), and for the overspreading of abominations (THIS IS WHERE THE 70 WEEKS ENDS)

The overspreading of abominations has been going on for 2000 years now.

1 WEEK - Daniel had to wait for the ORDER from KING DARIUS to COME, to REBUILD THE TEMPLE. (Daniel had to wait 1 week before the order came)

Then from THAT DAY to the CRUCIFIXION is 62 WEEKS.
7 WEEKS after the CRUCIFIXION the temple and the city was destroyed by the Roman Prince (70AD)

1 week + 62 weeks + 7 weeks = 70 weeks.
FULFILLED, AND THE DESOLATION IS STILL GOING ON FOR 2000 YEARS NOW

Daniel 9:27 ......and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate (it still is desolate today) even until the consumation (to the end time) and that DETERMINED shall be poured upon the desolate (desolation is still happening now, today till the end)

scripture
Jeremiah 25:38 He (God) has forsaken his covert as the lion: FOR THEIR LAND (christian world) is DESOLATE because of the fierceness of the oppressor (the leaders of the sheep not feeding the flock with the truth) and because of his fierce anger (because of Gods fierce anger, God let it happen)

For Jesus is not consumated now in front of all men, but in heaven only..... for Jesus said MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD. So that means that Jesus is not the King of this world, but Satan is the prince of this world. Jesus Kingdom is coming (thy kingdom come...thy will be done on earth)

Psalms 110 and Hebrews 1:13
But to which of the angels said he to at any time sit on my right hand UNTIL I MAKE THINE ENEMIES THY FOOTSTOOL (at his coming)

still waiting until God gives the go ahead.... and this is the go ahead;
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called faithful and true and in righteousness he does judge and make war.

[/QUOTE]This is not a matter of denying Jesus annointing on earth, but he will be (near future) When Jesus was annointed, he was sitting at the right hand of God, but he hasn't yet been made king of the earth until after his coming. He will be king of kings in the 1000 year reign. KING OF KINGS. Although he is ruling the true followers, the nations are not under his power yet.

Slepsog4 · Oct 5, 2011

The 10 kings were the first of the Roman empire... not a future kingdom

This has all already been fulfilled.

zone · Oct 5, 2011

Slepsog4 said:

eyup.
this is true.

a-a-a-and:

the 10 horn beast kingdom in Daniel 7:7 is the 4th in the vision.....ROME. same same.
they are the 10 kings...caesars. all 10 ruled during the time of Jesus.

then ya got yer 7 heads, which are not mentioned in Daniel.

but are in Revelation 12 & 13. 7 heads and 10 horns: 7 herods and 10 caesars. same guys that got smashed when Jesus came.

there is a SECOND BEAST in Rev, which comes up after the FIRST: Rev17:9. separate 7 heads....these "heads" are described as mountains.

one of them got a deadly wound...that's healed. there's a woman sitting on them.
she went to Babylon in a basket a long time ago.

journey41 · Oct 5, 2011

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings (10 toes/10 kings) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed (not by wars or anything but we have already had 2 world wars and another one coming) AND THE KINGDOM SHALL NOT BE LEFT TO OTHER PEOPLE but it shall BREAK IN PIECES and CONSUME ALL THESE KINGDOMS. And it shall stand forever. (near future coming)

The 10 Roman kings has been gone for 2000 years now and they have NEVER been ONE power.

The 10 toes represent the last kingdom of man on earth. There is no more after the 10 toes, but Gods Kingdom on earth. So the 10 toes are being set up today to be destroyed by the rock that is cut out without hands from a mountain (God's kingdom in heaven) and that rock is Jesus at his 2nd coming to judge the world, for his first coming was not to judge but to save the world and to give light to the world.

journey41 · Oct 5, 2011

zone said:

Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night vision behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly, and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was DIVERSE from ALL THE BEASTS BEFORE IT and it had ten horns.

Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit (Christ sitting on his throne) whose garment was white as snow and his hair of his head like pure wool, his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

This did not happen during the caesars. They were not cast into the lake of fire and they were not the last kingdom of man on earth.

Daniel 7:11 I beheld them because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast (10 horn beast) was slain, and his body destroyed, AND GIVEN TO THE BURNING FLAME (lake of fire)

Daniel 7:20 And the ten horns that were in his head and of the other which came up and before whom three fell even of that horn that had eyes and a mouth that spake very great things whose look was more stout than his fellows and I beheld and the same horn made war with the saints and prevailed against them.

Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient of Days came and judgement was given to the saints of the most high and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, the fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be DIVERSE FROM ALL KINGDOMS and shall devour THE WHOLE EARTH and shall tread it down and break it in pieces
this does not fit the Roman Empire or the caesars

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the Most High (the Romans didn't do that) and shall wear out the saints of the Most High and think to cause to change times and laws and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of times (3 1/2 years)
this did not fit the caesars

Rev 7:26 But the judgment shall sit and they (saints) shall take away his dominion to consume and to destroy it unto the end (this does not fit the caesars)
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him which he decieved them that had recieved the mark of the veast, and them that worshipped his image. these both (beast and false prophet) cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone

This is obviously speaking of the last kingdom of man on this earth.

The 10 Roman empires were never cast alive into the burning lake of fire.

You are confusing the old Roman empire, and the new Roman Empire.
The legs of the image represents the old Roman empire. The feet and the toes mix with iron and clay represents the end time Roman empire. The feet is the Roman Empire now today, the toes is the extension of the Roman Empire coming (NWO) The fourth beast in Daniel 7:7 with the 10 horns represents the end time Roman Empire. This beast will be cast into the lake with burning fire (end of man's kingdoms) Christs kingdom set up.

Must be careful interpreting bible prophesies.

The seven heads is counting from the first empire (Egypt) (Syria) (Babylon) (Medo-Persia) (Greecian) (Roman) (End time Roman empire)

The image of Daniel Chapter 2 is starting from Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greecian, Roman and end time Roman empire

I cannot find that in Rev 12, sorry.

Beast No. 1 - Rev 13 came out of the SEA with seven heads and ten horns.
Beast No. 2 - Rev 13:11 came out of the EARTH.

Beast coming out of the SEA meaning - coming out of peoples/populations
Beast coming out of the EARTH meaning - he is born (kings are born)

So the beast that came out of the EARTH is the king full of wonders and miracles and decieving the nations and making them to worship the beast and to take the mark, this is the same king (beast) in Rev 19:20 that was cast into the lake of fire at the coming.

Rev 17:9 Here is the mind that has wisdom, the seven heads are seven mountains (not hills) on which the woman sit (the whore)

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings (1. Egypt, 2.Syria, 3.Babylon, 4.Medo-Persia, 5.Greecian, 6.Roman, 7.End time Roman) Five are fallen, (1,2,3,4,5 fallen) One is, (in Johns time this one is in power - Roman Empire) the other one has not yet come and when he comes he must continue a short space.

so the End time Roman Empire which is the 7th will come and will continue a short space. This is the British Empire. The end time Roman Empire = British empire.

Rev 17:11 And the beast that was and is not he is even the eighth and is of the seventh and goes into perdition (at the coming)

The beast that came out of the bottomless pit is the british empire transformed by Satan into an eighth empire. This will be the NWO. And the BEAST THAT WAS represents BABEL (Nimrod) He created one government, one rule, one nation, one language. During the days of John, this beast WAS NOT,(did not exist, or not in power) YET IS (the plan is still in Satans mind) and he will do it one more time in a great way. He will transform the British empire into a one world order. One rule, One leader, one army, one language and one religion which is himself.

[/QUOTE] The beast in Rev 13 with the deadly wound was the seventh head (british empire) during the 1st & 2nd world war. Had survived.

Regarding the woman sitting on the seven heads, this woman is a spiritual woman sitting on the 7 world empires. She represents all the greed, power, blasphemies against God, wars, oppression, deciet and at the same time dishing out to the world all the pleasures of the flesh and coveting for material things and false religion and causing the world to worship their own God such as materialism.

And yes, this woman went out in a basket a long time ago to establish her place in Babylon which we are now in. We are in Babylon but we are not of babylon.

zone · Oct 5, 2011

journey41 said:

noooo.....Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings

IT EITHER MEANS WHAT IT SAYS OR IT DOESN'T. in the days of those kings. while they were alive the thing would happen. and it did.

if it didn't you have no King Jesus at all.

start with Augustus and count 10 Caesars (those toes were partly clay and partly iron.....(the 7 herods were attached but they did not belong truly one to the other)

1) Augustus

Luke 2
1And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. 2(And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) 3And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city. 4And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David) 5To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. 6And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. 7And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

10) TITUS:

"The Emperor who destroyed the temple in Jerusalem"

Short Biography about the life of Titus

Short Biography profile and facts about one of the most famous Romans of all, in the life of Titus, Emperor of Rome and provinces of the Roman Empire.

Name commonly known as: Titus
Latin Roman Name: Titus Flavius Vespasianus
Reigned as Roman Emperor / Caesar: 24 June 79 - 13 September 81
Dynasty / Historical Period: Flavian
Place and Date of Birth: Born 30 December 39 in Rome
Name of previous Emperor: His predecessor or the Emperor before Titus was Vespasian
Titus and the fall of Jerusalem

In A.D. 70, September 2, his son Titus took the city of Jerusalem, after a brave defense by the Jews, who were finally betrayed by their own factions. The city was totally destroyed, and nearly half a million of the Jews perished in the siege. Those who survived, being forbidden to rebuild their city, were scattered over the empire, and each Jew was compelled to pay a yearly tax of two drachmae, which was appropriated to rebuilding the Capitoline Temple. The Arch of Titus, which still exists at Rome, was erected in commemoration of the fall of Jerusalem.

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed

~

now we just decide: was Jesus King the First Time?
where do we get the idea that because some jews rejected Him, and people everywhere DO NOT ACCEPT HIM AS KING...that He is NOT?

Matthew 2:2 and asked, "Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him."

Matthew 21:5 "Say to the Daughter of Zion, 'See, your king comes to you, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.'"

Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. <<<< Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey

John 12:15 "Do not be afraid, O Daughter of Zion; see, your king is coming, seated on a donkey's colt."

QUESTION:

IS DANIEL 9 FULFILLED?

are we, were the apostles, and all christians throughout time citizens of Christ's Kingdom?

Luke 11:20
But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

journey41 said:

um....God's Kingdom in Heaven? i thought there was no Kingdom yet?

the MOUNTAIN is MOUNT ZION....the church.

as for rome continuing yet not as a "kingdom"......the Vatican continued spiritually and politically. and so did THE RABBIS (herods).

the system got its deadly wound, but is HEALED.

what about the SECOND BEAST?

that's the "endtimes"

beast.

zone · Oct 5, 2011

journey41 said:

before it.
the 4th beast is ROME. which kingdoms were on the metal-man???
they came BEFORE ROME.

the entire Daniel series of images is about the JEWISH MESSIAH.

the roman occupation and rule over the jews and the new christians was worse and more fierce than ANYTHING that had been previously experienced.

in 70AD...well....read Jospehus.

its dominion was considered THE KNOWN WORLD.

The Roman Empire is widely known as ancient Europe's largest and most powerful civilization. After the Punic Wars Rome was already one of the biggest empires on the planet but its expansion continued with the invasions of Greece and Asia Minor. By 27 BC Rome had control over half of Europe as well as Northern Africa and large amounts of the Middle East. Rome also had a developed culture, building on the earlier Greek culture. From the time of Augustus to the Fall of the Western Empire, Rome dominated Western Eurasia, comprising the majority of its population.

these are TWO VISIONS..After is the language of visions.
it does NOT mean after IN TIME.

it means his NEXT VISION. its the SAME ROME.

when are you going to PROCEED TO THE SECOND BEAST?
the SPIRITUAL continuation and resurrection of the FIRST?
headed by a single son of perdition?

move on!

journey41 said:

please try to avoid inserting eisegesis without a clear distinction.
and.....is Daniel still having A VISION?

did john go forward in time in his visions? yes he did.
did He see THE LAMB worthy to loose the scroll? yes he did?
when did that happen?

at the Ascension. what was the scroll? did john see a zillion things that didn't happen either in his lifetime or on earth? YES. did daniel?

journey41 said:

what didn't?
Daniel's vision didn't happen during the lifetime of the casears either!
ITS INFORMATION! REVELATION. given in visions.

journey41 said:

Ten toes, ten horns, ten kings

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