That old serpent

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SCHISM

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2016
299
5
0
#1
Growing up I always just assumed that Jehovah was Jesus' Heavenly Father.

However, I would now have to completely disagree.

Jehovah did some wicked things according to the old testament.

So who were the Israelites worshipping?
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
3,517
77
48
#2
Jehovah is Good and all that He does is Good----any act that He does is altogether righteous and true...
 
Nov 19, 2016
502
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#3
Growing up I always just assumed that Jehovah was Jesus' Heavenly Father.

However, I would now have to completely disagree.

Jehovah did some wicked things according to the old testament.

So who were the Israelites worshipping?
We all know that God will judge the world,but in the Old Testament God would judge them on earth,where in the New Testament does not operate like that,and in the Old Testament God allowed Israel to fight her enemies,where in the New Testament God does not operate like that,but said all wars come from people and not Him.

But this does not mean God was more mean in the Old Testament,because the motive does not fit it,but that He dealt with people on earth,instead of later on,and it was for the good of people,and their welfare.

1.To protect people,and put down the physically cruel.

2.To protect Israel from being led away from the truth,or if they hindered people from being able to see the truth to a big extent.Like kingdoms that ruled,God allowed them to rule,but when they got too big,being to cruel towards people,and spreading their falsehood that got too big,God would allow another kingdom that was advancing to take them down,but then take that kingdom down by another,when they got too big,cruel,and spreading their ways that were wrong too far,which is is going to happen sooner or later.

The beast kingdom in Revelation is the only kingdom that God is not going to put down,but let them spread their lies throughout the entire earth,with cruelty,but of course there cannot be another kingdom to put them down,for their kingdom is the whole world that does not love God together,and the time for God to put down the world,but their cruelty exceeds any cruelty before it.

God is a God of love,and He only does things for the welfare of people,and so people can see His truth.

He put down a 1000 so 10,000 can live,which He puts down people only to save other people,and they can see His truth,which is the only blessing.

God would intercede in the Old Testament that He does not do in the New Testament,for if God did not intercede to put people down,Israel would of been wiped out,and God has to have somewhat control in the world,so that people will not get too far out of hand,but when God does not intercede and allows the world their way to form the beast kingdom,woe unto the world,for there will be more people deceived,and more people hurt,in that kingdom,then all the other kingdoms combined.

God only does things for the better of mankind,and if you were a child walking in the park with your Dad,and a man ran up to you to stab you with a knife,would you say,dad you are cruel,or would you say,thank you dad for saving my life.

It is not God that is cruel on this earth,but people,so in the Old Testament He would allow those type of cruel people,and who would pervert people from the truth,mainly Israel,to be put down for the betterment of other people.

If God had not put them down more people would of been hurt,Israel would of been wiped out.More people would of been hurt than the people God put down.

Jesus is God manifest,and the God of the Old Testament,and Jesus is the name above all names,not only in this world,but in the world,and is the highest name given to mankind.

Jesus is Jehovah.

God used the name Jehovah when He brought the Jews out of Egypt to represent physical deliverance,and used the name Jesus to represent spiritual deliverance.

Jesus is above the name Jehovah,and the name that is above all names,and God said in the Old Testament that He will reveal a new name to the Jews,and speak to them,and Jesus said,I am come in My Father' name,the Son inherited the name from the Father,and the Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Jesus is Jehovah,God manifest in the flesh,which in the Old Testament God said that He will come in the future to save mankind,and that is in the flesh to save then spiritually.
 

SCHISM

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2016
299
5
0
#4
John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

Clearly Jesus said All who came before him are thieves and robbers who came to steal, kill, and destroy, and that the wolf scatters the sheep.

Under Jehovah, the Israelites were commanded to steal, kill, and destroy other nations, including the children at times. Also, because of their disobedience, Jehovah scattered the tribes of Israel.

It appears that Jesus and Jehovah are opposing forces, but the general explanation is that it was a different time, where different means were required to usher in righteousness.

Because the Israelites were so stiff-necked they needed a stiff god. They needed to be told to kill innocent animals at an altar to atone for sins. They needed to "borrow" gold from the Egyptians. They needed to kill and destroy the people who inhabited the land that they were promised.

That was Jesus?

I admit this idea could be wrong, but the god of the Old Testament oftentimes told the Israelites to do seemingly wicked things.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#5
the sheep's and the goat's...
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,378
2,451
113
#6
John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

Clearly Jesus said All who came before him are thieves and robbers who came to steal, kill, and destroy, and that the wolf scatters the sheep.

Under Jehovah, the Israelites were commanded to steal, kill, and destroy other nations, including the children at times. Also, because of their disobedience, Jehovah scattered the tribes of Israel.

It appears that Jesus and Jehovah are opposing forces, but the general explanation is that it was a different time, where different means were required to usher in righteousness.

Because the Israelites were so stiff-necked they needed a stiff god. They needed to be told to kill innocent animals at an altar to atone for sins. They needed to "borrow" gold from the Egyptians. They needed to kill and destroy the people who inhabited the land that they were promised.

That was Jesus?

I admit this idea could be wrong, but the god of the Old Testament oftentimes told the Israelites to do seemingly wicked things.

And you, as a finite creature with limited intellect, in your fallen and corrupted moral condition....
have both the moral authority, and intellectual capacity, to sit in judgment of the infinite God who created you?


Really?
 

SCHISM

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2016
299
5
0
#7
And you, as a finite creature with limited intellect, in your fallen and corrupted moral condition....
have both the moral authority, and intellectual capacity, to sit in judgment of the infinite God who created you?


Really?
No. Not really at all. But I can look at their fruits to know if they are of a good tree or an evil tree.

Looking at some of the things the Israelites did, much of which it is written that Jehovah told them to do, it doesn't appear that they came from a good tree.

God is good. God is love.

Who was telling the Israelites to kill animals, to stone people for working on the Sabbath, to kill entire cities including the children?

If God allowed the Israelites to go after strange gods, which their fathers had not known, then Jehovah could have been one of those gods?

Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. Genesis 28:3 And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people; Genesis 35:11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,378
2,451
113
#8
No. Not really at all. But I can look at their fruits to know if they are of a good tree or an evil tree.

Looking at some of the things the Israelites did, much of which it is written that Jehovah told them to do, it doesn't appear that they came from a good tree.

God is good. God is love.

Who was telling the Israelites to kill animals, to stone people for working on the Sabbath, to kill entire cities including the children?

If God allowed the Israelites to go after strange gods, which their fathers had not known, then Jehovah could have been one of those gods?

Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. Genesis 28:3 And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people; Genesis 35:11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

What did Christ think of Jehovah, the God of the Old Testament?


1. Christ spoke often of JUDGMENT... and he was fine with it, and considered it just.

Christ was fine with the issue of Hell, and fine with the whole issue of judgment... both here on earth, and later in eternity.

2. Christ participated in animal sacrifices, and he also ate meat.

He had no problem with sacrificing animals, or eating animals.
He had no moral dilemma in killing animals.

3. Christ never said any of the judgments of Jehova in the Old Testament were EVER WRONG or UNJUST... if Jehovah was unjust, surely Christ would have said so.

Christ was fine with everything in the OT that was written about Jehovah.

Christ spoke against things often, but he never spoke against Jehovah, or anything written about Jehovah.

If there was something wrong with Jehovah, surely Christ would have plainly said so.

4. Christ even spoke about Jehovah wiping out entire cities... and Christ NEVER EVEN HINTED that it might be the slightest bit unjust or unfair.

Christ was fine with it.

Christ was totally fine with all the judgments of Jehovah in the Old Testament, and Christ himself spoke often of Hell and various kinds of judgment on sinners.



Conclusion:

1. Christ obeyed Jehovah, the God of the Old Testament.

2. Christ was in agreement with all the judgments of Jehovah, and Christ even spoke often of judgment.

3. You CANNOT say you believe in CHRIST but disbelieve in JEHOVAH... as Christ believed in Jehovah, and Christ obeyed and worshiped Jehovah.

4. Therefore, if you disbelieve in Jehovah, you are disbelieving in the teachings of Christ, and you are disobeying Christ.




 

SCHISM

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2016
299
5
0
#9
Exodus 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

The LORD thought to do evil unto his people??

But he repented. Oh thank God. Wait, changed his mind again by the end of the chapter.

Exodus 32:35 And the LORD plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.

Seriously, is this Jesus? I guess he was having a bad day, but did he really need to take it out on the people? Couldn't he just shake the earth and yell at them instead?
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#10
schism,

you are in great 'danger' because of your ignorant post...submit and pray...
 

HQ

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2014
196
6
18
#11
Exodus 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

The LORD thought to do evil unto his people??

But he repented. Oh thank God. Wait, changed his mind again by the end of the chapter.

Exodus 32:35 And the LORD plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.

Seriously, is this Jesus? I guess he was having a bad day, but did he really need to take it out on the people? Couldn't he just shake the earth and yell at them instead?
You're obviously unable or unwilling to read in context and instead cherry-pick verses that "seem" bad in a feeble attempt to defame the God you don't believe in. Why don't you try asking some specific questions?
 

Sheepman

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2016
135
5
0
#12
Growing up I always just assumed that Jehovah was Jesus' Heavenly Father.

However, I would now have to completely disagree.

Jehovah did some wicked things according to the old testament.

So who were the Israelites worshipping?

I understand your question. My nephew have the same opinion.
There is actually many books out there on the subject.

Michael Heisers "The Unseen Realm" for ex.

Its a modern common question.

My recomendation is - take a bible + Heisers Unseen Realm. Place yourself in a desert place. A house or tent in the woods etc. And start reading and contemplating your safe environment at home versus the wilderness. Its lifechanging. But be spiritually prepared. It can be very dangerous without Jesus/Jehovah - (aka I am That I Am). Dramatic? Yes. The truth is extremely dramatic. As for me. I started with a tent in the garden as a practiceground. Rehersal.

We are so modern we just cant see very far anymore.
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
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#13
we thinks that 'schism', likes to 'play & bait' the role of that ole serpent...
 

SCHISM

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2016
299
5
0
#14
Proverbs 24:9 The thought of foolishness is sin: and the scorner is an abomination to men.

My thoughts may be foolish, so I put them out here seeking understanding, but perhaps even that is foolish.

I don't want to question everything, but it is in my nature. I believe that Jesus died upon the cross for remission of sins. Everything else is fair game to be questioned.
 
C

CompanionBibleFan

Guest
#15
Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Melchizedek was the embodiment of God. In the spirit form. Like as one of the Angels. Cause that is how he made us like him That is how he was Priest of the Most High. King of righteousness, and King of Peace,And King of Salem. Without mother or father. Before he was born of women.

Then when he placed him self without natural conception in the womb of Mary also known as immaculate conception. And was born into the flesh. He is now Christ. The embodiment of God in the flesh. And is now King of Kings and The Most high Priest. He became like us so we could become like him. ( Do a study of Mary ( Tribe of Levi ) and Joseph ( tribe of Judah.) There lineage )

He is the only Kinsman redeemer we have. All others were created after him in his likeness.And we can not save ourselves. And he has met all the qualifications. And Paid the ransom according to the law.
 
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