The Book of Job: Learning how to speak to suicidal people

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A

Ariel82

Guest
#1
It has been on my heart for a while to reread the book of Job and learn what it really means.

My question is if you were there with Job, what would you say to comfort his grief.

Remember he has just lost all his livestock. and his seven sons and three daughters. His body is covered with sores and he is sitting in ashes scraping his wounds with a potshard and wishing he was never born.

Imagine spending seven silent days and nights with this man and suddenly he cries out "I wish I was never born. I wish I never saw the light of day. I wish I died in my mother's womb"

What would you say to comfort him?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#2
Here are my study notes so far from my first reread of Job:

Verse 1: where is the land of Uz?
7 sons 3 daughters, 7000 camels, 500 oxen, 500 donkeys
Man of the east
How is it that Job was able to sanctify them by offering burnt offerings?
Who are the Sabeans?
“the fire of God is fallen from heaven and hath burned up the sheep”
The Chaldeans is another name for the Babylonians and they stole the camels.
Wind from the wilderness killed his sons and daughters?
GOOD words: “Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the Lord hath taken away, blessed be the name of the Lord”

Chapter 2
Three days shall the sons of man present themselves before God. So is this is another feast day?
They didn’t speak for 7 days and nights after Job was afflicted in the body with sore boils.

Chapter 3
Job curses the day he was born.
Verse 25 “for the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me. 26. I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet, yet trouble came.

Chapter 4
Why was Eliphaz wrong in his speech?
Verse: 15 he listened to a spirit/demons advice 13”in thoughts from the visions of the night, when deep sleep falleth on men. 14. Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake. 15 then a spirit passed before my face; the hair on my flesh stood up. … false accusations: God places no trust in his servants. Verse 17 men die without wisdom 21 (wrong because Psalm 19 says that God teaches us wisdom)
Empty promises: “thou shalt be in league with the stones of the field; and the beasts of the field shall be at peace with theee….verses 23-27

Chapter 6
Job’s response: prays that God will kill him and rejects Eliphaz false words.

Chapter 7
11” therefore I will not refrain my mouth, I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul..13 when I say, my bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint; then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifies me through visions. So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than my life. 16. I loathe it, I would not live always; let me alone, for my days are vanity…..20. I have sinned, what shall I do unto thee. O thou preserver of men?

Chapter 8
Bildad: gives the law of Karma, God rewards the just and punishes the evil doers.

Chapter 9
Job asks how anyone can be righteous before God?
“20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me, if I say I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.”
Then he goes and questions God in Chapter 10 and asks God to kill him.

Chapter 11
Zophar…. Thinks Job was mocking God and tells him to put sin far from him and he will be fine.

Chapter 12
Job…why do robbers prosper?

chapter 13 “15. Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him; but I will maintain mine own ways before him. 16. He also shall be my salvation, for an hypocrite shall not come before him.”

Chpt 15.
Eliphaz gets angry and says what knowledge do you have that we don’t? we’re old enough to be your father. You are a hypocrite and your words condemn you. Don’t give yourself false comfort.

Chapter 16
Job prays for comfort and words to ease his grief. 21” o that one might plead for a man with God, as a man pleadeth for his neighbor!”

Chapter 17
Job tells them that 10”as for you all, do ye return and come now; for I cannot find one wise man among you.”

Chapter 18
Bildad calls Job wicked and gets offended. Answers out of anger.

Chapter 19
21 “have pity upon me, have pity upon me. O ye my friends for the hand of God hath touched me. 22 why do you persecute me as God and are not satisfied with my flesh? ….25. for I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth; 26-29 Prophesies about JESUS' coming and His redemption.

Chapter 20
Zophar still thinks Job is a hypocrite and wicked. no mention of the Messiah.

if you have any insight about the book of Job,
I would love to hear it :)
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#3
i don't think job was truly -suicidal-

he did evidently reach the point where he hated life...but he also seemed to realize that his life was never his own to take...

but to get back on topic...i think job's friends were doing ok until they actually started talking...maybe that is a hint...
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#4
Despite his 'friends'' admonition none saw the deal going on behind the scenes between God and satan. Only God could help this time.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#5
Job may not have tried to kill himself, but he really really wanted to die and was still in need of comfort. I noticed that none of his friends told him to look to GOD and His heavenly kingdom. they just wanted him to look to the world and its riches.

however I still wonder if you were there with Job, would you answer his words differently?

Did you notice in Chapter 19 when Job spoke of His Redeemer?
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#6
It has been on my heart for a while to reread the book of Job and learn what it really means.

My question is if you were there with Job, what would you say to comfort his grief.

Remember he has just lost all his livestock. and his seven sons and three daughters. His body is covered with sores and he is sitting in ashes scraping his wounds with a potshard and wishing he was never born.

Imagine spending seven silent days and nights with this man and suddenly he cries out "I wish I was never born. I wish I never saw the light of day. I wish I died in my mother's womb"

What would you say to comfort him?
Ariel, this is very thought provoking. I absolutely would not know what I would say to him. Sure, there are things I think I would say, but then again, things are foolishly said during times like this. What could I possibly say which would soften his hurt? I suppose I would have remained silent.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#7
I think if we study the words of Elihu we might learn wisdom (begins in Chapter 32), but another night. lol my husband has ask I get off the computer.

I really would like to know what answers we can find in the Bible to give to those who for one reason or another think they have nothing to live for.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#8
I think if we study the words of Elihu we might learn wisdom (begins in Chapter 32), but another night. lol my husband has ask I get off the computer.

I really would like to know what answers we can find in the Bible to give to those who for one reason or another think they have nothing to live for.
Goodnight and hope we can carry this thread further.
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#9
Here are my study notes so far from my first reread of Job:

Verse 1: where is the land of Uz?
7 sons 3 daughters, 7000 camels, 500 oxen, 500 donkeys
Man of the east
How is it that Job was able to sanctify them by offering burnt offerings?
Who are the Sabeans?
“the fire of God is fallen from heaven and hath burned up the sheep”
The Chaldeans is another name for the Babylonians and they stole the camels.
Wind from the wilderness killed his sons and daughters?
GOOD words: “Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the Lord hath taken away, blessed be the name of the Lord”

Chapter 2
Three days shall the sons of man present themselves before God. So is this is another feast day?
They didn’t speak for 7 days and nights after Job was afflicted in the body with sore boils.

Chapter 3
Job curses the day he was born.
Verse 25 “for the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me. 26. I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet, yet trouble came.

Chapter 4
Why was Eliphaz wrong in his speech?
Verse: 15 he listened to a spirit/demons advice 13”in thoughts from the visions of the night, when deep sleep falleth on men. 14. Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake. 15 then a spirit passed before my face; the hair on my flesh stood up. … false accusations: God places no trust in his servants. Verse 17 men die without wisdom 21 (wrong because Psalm 19 says that God teaches us wisdom)
Empty promises: “thou shalt be in league with the stones of the field; and the beasts of the field shall be at peace with theee….verses 23-27

Chapter 6
Job’s response: prays that God will kill him and rejects Eliphaz false words.

Chapter 7
11” therefore I will not refrain my mouth, I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul..13 when I say, my bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint; then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifies me through visions. So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than my life. 16. I loathe it, I would not live always; let me alone, for my days are vanity…..20. I have sinned, what shall I do unto thee. O thou preserver of men?

Chapter 8
Bildad: gives the law of Karma, God rewards the just and punishes the evil doers.

Chapter 9
Job asks how anyone can be righteous before God?
“20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me, if I say I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.”
Then he goes and questions God in Chapter 10 and asks God to kill him.

Chapter 11
Zophar…. Thinks Job was mocking God and tells him to put sin far from him and he will be fine.

Chapter 12
Job…why do robbers prosper?

chapter 13 “15. Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him; but I will maintain mine own ways before him. 16. He also shall be my salvation, for an hypocrite shall not come before him.”

Chpt 15.
Eliphaz gets angry and says what knowledge do you have that we don’t? we’re old enough to be your father. You are a hypocrite and your words condemn you. Don’t give yourself false comfort.

Chapter 16
Job prays for comfort and words to ease his grief. 21” o that one might plead for a man with God, as a man pleadeth for his neighbor!”

Chapter 17
Job tells them that 10”as for you all, do ye return and come now; for I cannot find one wise man among you.”

Chapter 18
Bildad calls Job wicked and gets offended. Answers out of anger.

Chapter 19
21 “have pity upon me, have pity upon me. O ye my friends for the hand of God hath touched me. 22 why do you persecute me as God and are not satisfied with my flesh? ….25. for I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth; 26-29 Prophesies about JESUS' coming and His redemption.

Chapter 20
Zophar still thinks Job is a hypocrite and wicked. no mention of the Messiah.

if you have any insight about the book of Job,
I would love to hear it :)
i don't know the answers to all of these questions...but here are some i do know...

uz was a son of aram...so most likely uz was in or near the region of aram...which is in modern day syria...

since job very probably lived before moses...there was no central place of worship or formal priesthood and religion tended to be a family thing... as patriarch of his family job would have had some 'priestly' duties that probably included offering sacrifices on behalf of his family...

'the sabeans' is literally 'sheba' in the hebrew...there are several shebas in the bible...but in every case the term seems to point to either the southern tip of the arabian peninsula or the horn of africa...modern day yemen and somalia...

the wind that killed job's children must have been very strong to blow a whole house down...the fact that the wind hit all four corners of the house suggests a dust devil to me...

i would not call bildad's principle the 'law of karma'...karma does not imply any judgment or calling to account...karma is more like a kind of moral 'debt' owed to the universe that eventually takes its toll through seemingly random events...
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#10
Thanks for your insights Rachel. :)

I refer to it as the Law of Karma or the Law of Sin and death because it has the same results: death.

I was wondering if anyone noticed in Chapter 4 that Eliphaz was listening to a demonic spirit?

Job 4
[SUP]12 [/SUP]“Now a word was secretly brought to me,
And my ear received a whisper of it.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In disquieting thoughts from the visions of the night,
When deep sleep falls on men,
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Fear came upon me, and trembling,
Which made all my bones shake.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then a spirit passed before my face;
The hair on my body stood up.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]It stood still,
But I could not discern its appearance.
A form was before my eyes;
There was silence;
Then I heard a voice saying:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]‘Can a mortal be more righteous than God?
Can a man be more pure than his Maker?
[SUP]18 [/SUP]If He puts no trust in His servants,
If He charges His angels with error,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]How much more those who dwell in houses of clay,
Whose foundation is in the dust,
Who are crushed before a moth?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]They are broken in pieces from morning till evening;
They perish forever, with no one regarding.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Does not their own excellence go away?
They die, even without wisdom.’
I believe we should counter such lies with God's truth:

God teaches us through His Holy Spirit wisdom.

Psalm 19
Psalm 19

New King James Version (NKJV)


19 The heavens declare the glory of God;
And the firmament shows His handiwork.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Day unto day utters speech,
And night unto night reveals knowledge.



[SUP]7 [/SUP]The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul;
The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple;
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart;
The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever;
The judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.



[SUP]12 [/SUP]Who can understand his errors?
Cleanse me from secret faults.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Keep back Your servant also from presumptuous sins;
Let them not have dominion over me.
Then I shall be blameless,
And I shall be innocent of great transgression.




Also God told us not to listen to spiritist:


  • Leviticus 19:31 ‘Give no regard to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek after them, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God.
  • Leviticus 20:6 ‘And the person who turns to mediums and familiar spirits, to prostitute himself with them, I will set My face against that person and cut him off from his people.
    2 Chronicles 33:6 Also he caused his sons to pass through the fire in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom; he practiced soothsaying, used witchcraft and sorcery, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke Him to anger.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#11
It has been on my heart for a while to reread the book of Job and learn what it really means.

My question is if you were there with Job, what would you say to comfort his grief.

Remember he has just lost all his livestock. and his seven sons and three daughters. His body is covered with sores and he is sitting in ashes scraping his wounds with a potshard and wishing he was never born.

Imagine spending seven silent days and nights with this man and suddenly he cries out "I wish I was never born. I wish I never saw the light of day. I wish I died in my mother's womb"

What would you say to comfort him?
I guess I would tell him that even though he is suffering right now. I am glad he was born because of all the wonderful things he did in his life. I would remind him of the people he lead to God and the good times of his life.

Also of his own words

“Naked I came from my mother’s womb,
And naked shall I return there.
The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away;
Blessed be the name of the Lord.”

and

"Shall we indeed accept good from God, and shall we not accept adversity?”



then I'd probably just cry and pray.

Have you ever been to the point where your worst fears are realized and you are in despair?

Have you ever felt like uttering these words:

Job 4
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For the thing I greatly feared has come upon me,
And what I dreaded has happened to me.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]I am not at ease, nor am I quiet;
I have no rest, for trouble comes.”
what brought you comfort then?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#12
Job 21

Job asked the question why do the wicked prosper and reject God. why do both good and bad die? He answers that their judgement is reserved for the "day of doom" the "day of wrath" verse. 30
he again rebukes his 'friends":
[SUP]34 [/SUP]How then can you comfort me with empty words,
Since falsehood remains in your answers?”
can you spot the falsehoods in their answers?

Job 22

Eliphaz accuses Job of taking bribes, taking clothes from the naked, not giving the thirsty to drink, not feeding the hungry, not comforting widows, and not strengthening orphans and that is why there are snares all around him.

Job 23

Job says he delighted in God's commandments more than food itself.

Job 24

admits that there are wicked men who do such things, but says God treats both the wicked and the righteous the same: they both die.

Job 25

bildad says men are worms/ maggots and can not be pure before God

Job 26
Job questions from what spirit Bildad speaks, how his words would comfort or strengthen or bring wisdom to one who is without. Then he goes on to declare God's majesty and awesome power.

Job 27

Job declares the following:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]“As God lives, who has taken away my justice,
And the Almighty, who has made my soul bitter,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]As long as my breath is in me,
And the breath of God in my nostrils,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]My lips will not speak wickedness,
Nor my tongue utter deceit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Far be it from me
That I should say you are right;
Till I die I will not put away my integrity from me.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go;
My heart shall not reproach me as long as I live.

Job 28

Job asks them where wisdom can be found and answers:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Then He saw wisdom[SUP][b][/SUP] and declared it;
He prepared it, indeed, He searched it out.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And to man He said,
‘Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom,
And to depart from evil is understanding.

Job 29

Job remembers when he was respected and how he helped the widows and did what God instructed him to do. He remembers when his children were still alive.

I love these verses:

[SUP]14 [/SUP]I put on righteousness, and it clothed me;
My justice was like a robe and a turban.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]I was eyes to the blind,
And I was feet to the lame.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]I was a father to the poor,
And I searched out the case that I did not know.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]I broke the fangs of the wicked,
And plucked the victim from his teeth.





Job 31

Job tells how he is mocked by those he helped and the sad state he finds himself in.

Job 31

Job lists the sins he could have committed to warrant such a punishment, but it is implied that he did NOT do such things.

Job 32

and this is when my favorite character enters the story. Elihu gets angry at Job for justifying himself and not God and angry at his friends for condemning Job but not having any response to his words.


[SUP]9 [/SUP]Great men[SUP][c][/SUP] are not always wise,
Nor do the aged always understand justice.

Job 33

Elihu says that JOB is NOT righteous

then goes on to show how humanity is saved. it is because GOD talks to them in their sleep and instructs them to their folly.


[SUP]13 [/SUP]Why do you contend with Him?
For He does not give an accounting of any of His words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For God may speak in one way, or in another,
Yet man does not perceive it.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]In a dream, in a vision of the night,
When deep sleep falls upon men,
While slumbering on their beds,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then He opens the ears of men,
And seals their instruction.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]In order to turn man from his deed,

And conceal pride from man,
[SUP]18 [/SUP]He keeps back his soul from the Pit,
And his life from perishing by the sword.


then Elihu gives a wonderful prophecy concerning Jesus.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]“If there is a messenger for him,
A mediator, one among a thousand,
To show man His uprightness,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Then He is gracious to him, and says,
‘Deliver him from going down to the Pit;
I have found a ransom’;



you will know that they have been saved by Jesus because they will declare:


[SUP]27 [/SUP]Then he looks at men and says,
‘I have sinned, and perverted what was right,
And it did not profit me.’


Job 34

Elihu shows the sin in Job's words:

. [SUP]5 [/SUP]“For Job has said, ‘I am righteous,
But God has taken away my justice;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Should I lie concerning my right?
My wound is incurable, though I am without transgression.’
[SUP]7 [/SUP]What man is like Job,
Who drinks scorn like water,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Who goes in company with the workers of iniquity,
And walks with wicked men?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For he has said, ‘It profits a man nothing
That he should delight in God.’

[SUP]10 [/SUP]“Therefore listen to me, you men of understanding:
Far be it from God to do wickedness,
And from the Almighty to commit iniquity.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For He repays man according to his work,
And makes man to find a reward according to his way.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Surely God will never do wickedly,
Nor will the Almighty pervert justice.

and shows how he should have answered instead:


[SUP]31 [/SUP]“For has anyone said to God,
‘I have borne chastening;
I will offend no more;
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Teach me what I do not see;
If I have done iniquity, I will do no more’?
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Should He repay it according to your terms,
Just because you disavow it?

Job 35

reminds Job of his place and how nothing he does truly affects God who is so much higher than we. its like Paul telling the Athenians about the Unknown God and how He is not worshipped in temples made by the hands of men because HE is the Creator of all and gave life to all.


[SUP]16 [/SUP]Therefore Job opens his mouth in vain;
He multiplies words without knowledge.”


Job 36

Elihu proclaims God's justice and points to an eternal spiritual kingdom


[SUP]7 [/SUP]He does not withdraw His eyes from the righteous;
But they are on the throne with kings,
For He has seated them forever,
And they are exalted.

Job 37

continues to proclaim God's majesty

Job 38

God answers Job out of a whirlwind

did you notice God used the phrase "words with out knowledge" ?

Job 39 is still God speaking

Job 40 has Job answering


[h=3][/h][SUP]3 [/SUP]Then Job answered the Lord and said:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]“Behold, I am vile;
What shall I answer You?
I lay my hand over my mouth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Once I have spoken, but I will not answer;
Yes, twice, but I will proceed no further.”

Job 42 has Job's repentance


[h=3]Job 42[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]Job’s Repentance and Restoration[/h]42 Then Job answered the Lord and said:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]“I know that You can do everything,
And that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]You asked, ‘Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?’
Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand,
Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Listen, please, and let me speak;
You said, ‘I will question you, and you shall answer Me.’

[SUP]5 [/SUP]“I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear,
But now my eye sees You.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Therefore I abhor myself,And repent in dust and ashes.

I found it interesting that Job's daughters were named but not his sons:

[SUP]13 [/SUP]He also had seven sons and three daughters. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And he called the name of the first Jemimah, the name of the second Keziah, and the name of the third Keren-Happuch. [SUP]15 [/SUP]In all the land were found no women so beautiful as the daughters of Job; and their father gave them an inheritance among their brothers.

ok that was very long but would anyone like to break it into pieces and discuss it?


If you have sermons or resources commenting on Job, please share them. thanks :)