The early Church was sacramental.

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dscherck

dscherck

Banned [Reason: persistent, ongoing Catholic heres
#21
Aug 3, 2009
1,272
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#21
jonathanbchristian said:
The Bible alone never says the bread or wine changes. That's Catholic. I don't believe the Catholic Church is the Church of the New Testament. I believe they persucuted true believers and I don't believe the traditions of the Catholic Church. I don't believe you have the traditions of the New Testament Church. If you use the Bible alone you will see that it never says that the bread or wine changes into his body or blood. Jesus was being symbolic.
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If you use the Bible alone, the words of Our Lord are "This is my Body"

Nowhere does He say that it is a symbol. And we see recorded in the Scriptures the reactions of His followers when told that they needed to eat His Flesh and drink His Blood. They reacted in shock, disbelief, and disgust. Certainly seems they understood Him to be literal.

And it's not just us Catholics who believe that. Indeed, the belief that the bread and wine become Our Lord's Body and Blood is found within writings from Christian believers in the first century. The Oriental Orthodox, the Eastern Orthodox, and even a good number of Anglicans hold to this belief as well. The idea that it's symbolic is a new belief that is not found in the ancient Church. The earliest records we have from our forefathers in the Christian faith following the times of the Apostles holds to this viewpoint.
 
Elizabeth619

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
#22
Jul 19, 2011
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#22
So Scott, are you saying it is necessary for ALL Christians to partake of the bread and wine? Not just the priest, or whoever is blessing it?
 
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Scotth1960

Guest
#23
#23
jonathanbchristian said:
The Bible alone never says the bread or wine changes. That's Catholic. I don't believe the Catholic Church is the Church of the New Testament. I believe they persucuted true believers and I don't believe the traditions of the Catholic Church. I don't believe you have the traditions of the New Testament Church. If you use the Bible alone you will see that it never says that the bread or wine changes into his body or blood. Jesus was being symbolic.
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The Catholic Church is the Church of the New Testament. Roman Catholicism is not the Catholic Church. They stole for themselves the term "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church", but they follow the tradition of Charlemagne and the Frankish theologians who accused the Orthodox Catholic Church of deleting the Filioque from the original Nicene Creed of the Church. Well, the original Creed was in Greek, not Latin, and the Greek equivalent of the Latin word(s) "Filioque" was not in the Greek text of the Creed of the Second Ecumenical Council of 381 AD.
Roman Catholicism follows the traditions of Augustine of Hippo and Charlemagne, King of the Franks. Augustine never intended his speculations to become dogmas, and sometimes Augustine clearly merely speculated what he thought was logical and rational about the Trinity, not what he could clearly prove from Scripture. John 15:26 clearly proves the Filioque dogma is heretical.
Jesus Christ Himself does say the bread and wine ARE His body and blood: He says, "This IS My body; This IS My blood." So, at some point, the bread and wine must BECOME His body and His blood, or else you would have to be saying that Christ did not mean what He said. When Christ says something IS something, it IS something, it is not symbolic of something, it IS what He says that it IS. Otherwise, you are following the tradition of a proven liar, President William Jefferson Clinton, who said, "It depends upon what the meaning of IS is"!
God bless us everyone. In Erie PA USA God save us in Christ Jesus: Amen. Scott R. Harrington July 2011 AD

 
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Scotth1960

Guest
#24
#24
Elizabeth619 said:
So Scott, are you saying it is necessary for ALL Christians to partake of the bread and wine? Not just the priest, or whoever is blessing it?
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Scripture says, "Unless you eat My flesh and drink My blood, you have no life in you." Isn't that what Christ says in Scripture?
What does Christ say is necessary for all Christians? What I say is besides the point. What Christ says, matters. Wouldn't you say that?
 
Elizabeth619

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
#25
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
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#25
Scotth1960 said:
Scripture says, "Unless you eat My flesh and drink My blood, you have no life in you." Isn't that what Christ says in Scripture?
What does Christ say is necessary for all Christians? What I say is besides the point. What Christ says, matters. Wouldn't you say that?
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Hey man! I was just wondering. I take communion. Every Sunday as a matter of fact.
 
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Scotth1960

Guest
#26
#26
Elizabeth619 said:
Hey man! I was just wondering. I take communion. Every Sunday as a matter of fact.
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Good for you. Does your congregation recite the Creed of Nicea-Constantinople of 381 AD?
Do you say, "Who proceeds from the Father"? Or do you say the Creed of the Third Council of Toledo Spain of 589 AD, not accepted by the Church, that says, "who proceeds from the Father" AND THE SON?

What does the Scripture (Jesus Christ) say?
"But when the Comforter is come, Whom I shall send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, Who proceedeth from the Father, He shall give testimony to Me." John 15:26. No words "AND THE SON" in John 15:26. Therefore, Christ did NOT say "AND THE SON", and neither should we say it in CHURCH.
God bless you.
 
Elizabeth619

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
#27
Jul 19, 2011
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#27
Scotth1960 said:
Good for you. Does your congregation recite the Creed of Nicea-Constantinople of 381 AD?
Do you say, "Who proceeds from the Father"? Or do you say the Creed of the Third Council of Toledo Spain of 589 AD, not accepted by the Church, that says, "who proceeds from the Father" AND THE SON?

What does the Scripture (Jesus Christ) say?
"But when the Comforter is come, Whom I shall send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, Who proceedeth from the Father, He shall give testimony to Me." John 15:26. No words "AND THE SON" in John 15:26. Therefore, Christ did NOT say "AND THE SON", and neither should we say it in CHURCH.
God bless you.
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We don't read from a creed. We read from the bible


Jesus said that when we celebrate this feast, he eats it with us! (Mark 14:25.) Each time we have Communion, we participate in the blood and body of Christ (1 Cor. 10:16). We also show our unity as a body, remember his sacrifice, and preach his death and resurrection (1 Cor. 11:17-34).
The Communion service is one of the most important reasons we meet on Sunday. Paul and his companions thought it so important that they waited seven days in one town so they could assemble with the church and celebrate the Communion meal (Acts 20:6-7).
 
dscherck

dscherck

Banned [Reason: persistent, ongoing Catholic heres
#29
Aug 3, 2009
1,272
3
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#29
Elizabeth619 said:
We don't read from a creed. We read from the bible


Jesus said that when we celebrate this feast, he eats it with us! (Mark 14:25.) Each time we have Communion, we participate in the blood and body of Christ (1 Cor. 10:16). We also show our unity as a body, remember his sacrifice, and preach his death and resurrection (1 Cor. 11:17-34).
The Communion service is one of the most important reasons we meet on Sunday. Paul and his companions thought it so important that they waited seven days in one town so they could assemble with the church and celebrate the Communion meal (Acts 20:6-7).
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Exactly! When we partake of the Eucharist, we are literally participating with the one sacrifice on Calvary. Christ makes His sacrifice eternal, and allows us to participate with Him in this glorious sacrifice.
 
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SantoSubito

Guest
#30
#30
Elizabeth619 said:
We don't read from a creed. We read from the bible


Jesus said that when we celebrate this feast, he eats it with us! (Mark 14:25.) Each time we have Communion, we participate in the blood and body of Christ (1 Cor. 10:16). We also show our unity as a body, remember his sacrifice, and preach his death and resurrection (1 Cor. 11:17-34).
The Communion service is one of the most important reasons we meet on Sunday. Paul and his companions thought it so important that they waited seven days in one town so they could assemble with the church and celebrate the Communion meal (Acts 20:6-7).
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Thats one of the few unique things about the Church of Christ. They're the only non-Apostolic, non-Mainline church that has communion every Sunday, and they believe in baptismal regeneration.
 
Elizabeth619

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
#31
Jul 19, 2011
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#31
SantoSubito said:
Thats one of the few unique things about the Church of Christ. They're the only non-Apostolic, non-Mainline church that has communion every Sunday, and they believe in baptismal regeneration.
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At least we are doing something right! ;)
 
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Scotth1960

Guest
#32
#32
Elizabeth619 said:
At least we are doing something right! ;)
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I believe President Obama's church was the (United) Church of Christ denomination. I believe Pres. Obama left behind Rev. Jeremiah Wright's congregation. I do not know, but I've been informed that Rev. Wright's congregation was a member of the Church of Christ. I do not believe his views in politics is typical of most preachers in the United Church of Christ. Rev. Wrights prayer, "God damn America", is probably the main reason our good President, Mr. Obama, left Rev. Wright's congregation of Chicago. Whatever you think of Pres. Obama, he is our President, and we should pray for him. It is good now the Republicans and Democrats and Pres. Obama have reached a deal on the debt. Or so it seems.
 
Elizabeth619

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
#34
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
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#34
jonathanbchristian

jonathanbchristian

Banned
#35
Feb 16, 2011
2,957
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#35
Didn't you say you were Pentecostal before and ask forgiveness? That's horrible. How did you go from believing salvation by faith, to being a Catholic who believes in salvation by works? I believe you are fallen and need to repent, Scoth.
 
Elizabeth619

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
#36
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
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#36
Hey Scott! Why do we need God we we have Jonathan to condemn us?
 
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SantoSubito

Guest
#37
#37
jonathanbchristian said:
Didn't you say you were Pentecostal before and ask forgiveness? That's horrible. How did you go from believing salvation by faith, to being a Catholic who believes in salvation by works? I believe you are fallen and need to repent, Scoth.
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Scoth, isn't a Catholic, he's Eastern Orthodox.
 
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