The Fullness of the Gentiles

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Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
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Absolutely, 100% agree.

Zech 12:10 is the precondition of Christ's second coming.

There will be no second coming until Israel's plea and confession that they rejected Jesus as their Messiah. He will not return until they look to the one they pierced, and cry out for Him to return, mourning for Him.


Matthew 23:37-39: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ "

Hosea 5:15: "I will go and return to My place Till they acknowledge their offense. Then they will seek My face; In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”

Clearly, Zech 12:10 has not yet been fulfilled.

Zechariah 12:10 is describing an occurance which will happen AT the Second Coming of Christ.

AT that time (when He comes) - they shall see Him - whom they pierced - and, they shall mourn...

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. ~ Zechariah 12:10

:)

No, Zech 12:10 states that before there can be a cleansing of Israel's sins, and before there can be a Second Coming, Israel must first look to the one they have pierced and mourn for Him as a person that mourns for their only son. As I quoted in Matthew 23, before Jesus will come back, Israel must plead for Him to return, with the words "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord" (the confession first and then the plea for His return)

Just like the Jewish leaders once led all to reject Jesus, the Messiah, the leaders will some day lead the nation to the acceptance of Jesus.

Hosea 6:1-3: Come, and let us return to the Lord; For He has torn, but He will heal us; He has stricken, but He will bind us up. After two days He will revive us; On the third day He will raise us up, That we may live in His sight. Let us know, Let us pursue the knowledge of the Lord. His going forth is established as the morning; He will come to us like the rain, Like the latter and former rain to the earth"

From what I have studied, it will be in the last 3 days of the tribulation.

Jesus returns at the request of the Jews. Scripture says this will happen in the future.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Zechariah 12:10 is describing an occurance which will happen AT the Second Coming of Christ.

AT that time (when He comes) - they shall see Him - whom they pierced - and, they shall mourn...

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. ~ Zechariah 12:10

:)
stop adding to it.
thats not what it says.

if you're talking about Revelation it says AND EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM...EVEN THEY WHO PIERCED HIM (Resurrection) and they shall wail, even so....it does not say:

AT that time (when He comes) - they shall see Him - whom they pierced - and, they shall mourn...

~

the similarity is there...but the passage i posted is an exact match and even says it is the fulfillment. you've ADDED your own idea into it to make it fit Millennialism, GRA. please dont do that.

when He returns and every eye sees Him, it's TOO LATE FOR ANYTHING for anyone...the saints will rejoice and the others will wail.

please compare scripture to scripture and when it says TO FULFILL WHAT WAS WRITTEN IT MEANS IT.

Zech 12 is fulfilled.
so is 5; 9; 14...all of it!
some of it speaks of Judgment Day...the eternal state, and that's it.
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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zone:

[SUP]36[/SUP] For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. [SUP]37[/SUP] And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced. ~ John 19:36-37

Verse 37 indicates that He was pierced so that scripture would be fulfilled. It does not say that the fulfillment was to occur at the time that He was pierced. The fulfillment actually happens later. It could not happen later, however, if He was not pierced earlier - the fulfillment rests in the looking - not the piercing...

Understand?

:)

GRA...i respect you.
but i'm getting really tired of posting the very WORDS OF GOD which DECLARE those prophecies fulfilled and having people:

1) continue to DENY what it says
2) continue to eisegete so they can justify future fictions.


Zechariah 12:10
“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.

John 19
31Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away. 32So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first, and of the other who had been crucified with him. 33But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water. 35He who saw it has borne witness—his testimony is true, and he knows that he is telling the truth—that you also may believe. 36For these things took place that the Scripture might be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken.” 37And again another Scripture says, “They will look on him whom they have pierced.”

Luke 23:27
And there followed him a great multitude of the people and of women who were mourning and lamenting for him.

John 16:20
Truly, truly, I say to you, you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice. You will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will turn into joy.


just read it.
don't add to it, don't take away from it, don't add your own thoughts or insert your own ideas.
there's NO 1,000 YEAR FUTURE KINGDOM.
no magical blinding of jews until they all have a big revival, or when they see Jesus coming and they cry and He then forgives.
no future group repentence when everybody sees Jesus and says SORRY.

that's not written ANYWHERE - NOWHERE.

when He Returns it's OVER.

TODAY IS THE THE DAY OF SALVATION - TODAY.

please just READ IT.

just read what it says.
love zone.
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
whether you place this is a coming in Judgment at 70AD, or on the Last Day:

Revelation 1
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood 6and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. 7Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.

this is JUDGEMENT DAY - not repentance time.
not happy reunion time.

it's OVER.

Zechariah 12 is fulfilled...read the entire Book.
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
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"UMM - you are taking Zechariah 12:10 completely out of context..."

:)
But wasn't Mary,Mary,Joseph,Nicodemus,the other women,the disciples and others in mourning after His death?
 
G

GRA

Guest
But wasn't Mary,Mary,Joseph,Nicodemus,the other women,the disciples and others in mourning after His death?
Along with all of the other stuff in Zechariah 12...???

[SUP]2[/SUP] Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. [SUP]3[/SUP] And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. ~ Zechariah 12:2-3

And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. ~ Zechariah 12:9


"These verses are talking specifically about Armageddon..."

:)
 
Apr 4, 2013
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Can anyone who believes the fullness of the Gentiles came in during the first century give a Scripturally sound explanation proving that it occurred in the first century?
I don't think the times of the Gentile is past, but here is an op of a thread I started on a similar subject you might find interesting.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

The begs the question what or when is the fulness of the Gentiles?
Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Here we see that there is a 42 months period given over to the Gentile to trample Jerusalem unser foot.

In Luke we see that that f42 month period is called the times of the Gentiles.

Luke 21
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

We see that the time of the Gentiles is a 42 months period to which when it is fulfilled all of Israel will be saved. Lets check out one more passage and put this all together.

Zachariah 14
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

So Jesus returns at the end of the 42 month period known biblically as the times of the Getniles to rescue Jerusalem from persecution. This is the period we know as the Great Tribulation. There will be an unified coalition of nations that will attach Israel initiating the beginning of the end.

When Israel is attacked we know that God will allow them to be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity. At the end of this 42 month period He will return to not only deliver Israel, but raise the dead in Christ, catch up the living saints and pour His wrath out upon the wicked.
 
D

doulos

Guest
I don't think the times of the Gentile is past, but here is an op of a thread I started on a similar subject you might find interesting.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

The begs the question what or when is the fulness of the Gentiles?
Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Here we see that there is a 42 months period given over to the Gentile to trample Jerusalem unser foot.

In Luke we see that that f42 month period is called the times of the Gentiles.

Luke 21
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

We see that the time of the Gentiles is a 42 months period to which when it is fulfilled all of Israel will be saved. Lets check out one more passage and put this all together.

Zachariah 14
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

So Jesus returns at the end of the 42 month period known biblically as the times of the Getniles to rescue Jerusalem from persecution. This is the period we know as the Great Tribulation. There will be an unified coalition of nations that will attach Israel initiating the beginning of the end.

When Israel is attacked we know that God will allow them to be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity. At the end of this 42 month period He will return to not only deliver Israel, but raise the dead in Christ, catch up the living saints and pour His wrath out upon the wicked.
The time of the gentiles and the fullness of the gentiles are two different subjects. Time and fullness do not mean the same thing. The time of the gentiles concerns the time the gentiles control Jerusalem that ended in 1967 as a result of the 6 day war. The fullness of the gentiles concerns the full number of the gentiles that will be born again. That has not happened yet there are still gentiles coming to the Lord daily.May God bless your studies!
 
Apr 4, 2013
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The time of the gentiles and the fullness of the gentiles are two different subjects. Time and fullness do not mean the same thing. The time of the gentiles concerns the time the gentiles control Jerusalem that ended in 1967 as a result of the 6 day war. The fullness of the gentiles concerns the full number of the gentiles that will be born again. That has not happened yet there are still gentiles coming to the Lord daily.May God bless your studies!
The fullness of the Gentiles is the end of the time of the Gentile.


I tried to give you some interesting new info, but if you reject it off hand without confirming it with scripture you will never learn a thing.

I pray you don't address every doctrine this way
 
D

doulos

Guest
The fullness of the Gentiles is the end of the time of the Gentile.


I tried to give you some interesting new info, but if you reject it off hand without confirming it with scripture you will never learn a thing.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand; )
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

As we can see from the verses quoted above the time of the Gentiles starts when the abomination is placed and then last 42 prophetic months.

Times from Luke 24 in the original language is;
Καιρόςkairos kahee-ros'
Of uncertain affinity; an occasion, that is, set or proper time: - X always, opportunity, (convenient, due) season, (due, short, while) time, a while. Compare G5550.

The most desolate (both physically and spiritually) time in Jerusalem’s history is the 42 prophetic months (counting each day of those months as a year) that occurred between 688 and 1967. A period when Jews and Christians were exiled from Jerusalem bringing it’s population to an all time low of 550 people by the early 19[SUP]th[/SUP] century and the entire country was turned into a virtual desert wasteland.


The terms “trodden down” and “tread under foot” refer to the gentiles controlling Jerusalem. That control ended with the 6 day war of 67. The Gentiles no longer control Jerusalem, it is now under Israel’s government, not a gentile government. This is a historical fact, if you disagree then so be it.


The fullness of the gentiles refers to the full number of gentiles that will come to the Lord. As I pointed out before there are still people coming to the Lord daily so the fullness of the gentiles has not come in.


Fullness fom Romans 11 in the original language is:
Πλήρωμαplērōma play'-ro-mah
From G4137; repletion or completion, that is, (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period): - which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.

Gentiles are still filling up the church, with people coming to the Lord daily it would be hard to say the fullness of the gentiles has come in and the church is full.

I pray you don't address every doctrine this way
I’ll continue to examine what is said in light of the Scriptures. Sorry if you dislike that approach.
 
P

PeteWaldo

Guest
I don't think the times of the Gentile is past, but here is an op of a thread I started on a similar subject you might find interesting.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

The begs the question what or when is the fulness of the Gentiles?
Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Here we see that there is a 42 months period given over to the Gentile to trample Jerusalem unser foot.

In Luke we see that that f42 month period is called the times of the Gentiles.

Luke 21
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

We see that the time of the Gentiles is a 42 months period to which when it is fulfilled all of Israel will be saved. Lets check out one more passage and put this all together.

Zachariah 14
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

So Jesus returns at the end of the 42 month period known biblically as the times of the Getniles to rescue Jerusalem from persecution. This is the period we know as the Great Tribulation. There will be an unified coalition of nations that will attach Israel initiating the beginning of the end.

When Israel is attacked we know that God will allow them to be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity. At the end of this 42 month period He will return to not only deliver Israel, but raise the dead in Christ, catch up the living saints and pour His wrath out upon the wicked.
Beginning to end, you are parroting John Nelson Darby's 19th century eschatological scheme. The question is, do you believe the early-mid 19th century was the "time of the end"? If not then why would you consider Darby's scheme reliable, since the book of Daniel was sealed until the "time of the end", and Darby's whole futurist scheme is based upon the most contentious element in the book of Daniel.
Futurism and Dispensationalism
 
Apr 4, 2013
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Beginning to end, you are parroting John Nelson Darby's 19th century eschatological scheme. The question is, do you believe the early-mid 19th century was the "time of the end"? If not then why would you consider Darby's scheme reliable, since the book of Daniel was sealed until the "time of the end", and Darby's whole futurist scheme is based upon the most contentious element in the book of Daniel.
Futurism and Dispensationalism
Wrong, Darby was a pretribber, this is a post trib scheme
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
When Israel is attacked we know that God will allow them to be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity.
deja vu all over again?







THE WAR OF THE JEWS

For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall. (Matthew 24:21).

For the days shall come upon you when your enemies will throw up a bank before you, and surround you, and hem you in on every side, 44 and will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation. (Luke 19:43-44).

The ministry of Jesus was very specific in its exclusion of the head officials of Israel. During His three years of preaching, teaching and healing, He specifically avoided contact with Antipas, the tetrarch of Galilee, with Pontius Pilate, the procurator of Judea, and with Caiaphas, the High Priest at Jerusalem.

Although He was no stranger to the city of Jerusalem, it was a stated fact that He never spent the night within the city. When He did visit the Temple, He made it His practice to spend His evenings in one of the small villages outside the city.

On the last week of His ministry, He came for the last time to Jerusalem. It was the season of the Passover. As He appeared openly in the Temple, the multitudes saw Him challenge the religious leaders.

Finally He was betrayed by one of His own disciples and arrested. He was brought before Caiaphas, the High Priest. Several charges were brought against Him, but none could be substantiated. Finally Caiaphas cut to the heart of the matter by asking Jesus if He were truly the Messiah, the Son of God. Jesus answered in the affirmative. The trial ended at this point as Caiaphas judged Him guilty of blasphemy.

It must be remembered that this was the only charge for which Jesus was ever found guilty. Since the Jews did not possess the legal right to enforce capital punishment, they took Jesus to Pilate in the Antonia Fortress. Pilate found Him innocent and tried to pass the buck by sending Jesus to Herod Antipas who happened to be in town for the Passover. Antipas also found Him innocent and refused to judge the case. When Jesus was brought back to Pilate, the procurator protested the innocence of the accused. In desperation, Pilate offered to release Jesus on the basis of a popular custom of clemency, due to the Passover. The crowd called for a convicted murderer named Barabbas instead.

And when Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but rather a riot was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the multitude, saying, "I am innocent of this Man's blood; see to that yourselves."

And all the people answered and said, "His blood be on us and on our children."

Then he released Barabbas for them; but after having Jesus scourged, he delivered Him to be crucified. (Matthew 27:24-26).

The crowd called for a curse to be brought upon themselves and their children. It would be in this same courtyard that the Romans would break through in 70 A.D. and slaughter the unbelieving Jews of Jerusalem.



JERUSALEM AND THE EARLY CHURCH

Although Jesus was crucified and buried, He refused to stay dead. Even a Roman guard could not keep Him in the grave. He arose and made numerous appearances before finally being caught up bodily into heaven.

1. The Pentecost Incident.

The disciples of Jesus remained in Jerusalem following His ascension, waiting for an event which He had promised. They waited for ten days, and the, on the day of the Feast of Pentecost, something spectacular happened.

And when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent, rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance. (Acts 2:1-4).

Jews were gathered together from all over the world to celebrate this Feast. Suddenly, in the midst of the crowded city, something took place that can only be explained in terms of the supernatural.

The followers of Jesus began to speak in other languages, relating the news the Jesus has risen from the dead. When the crowd gathered around to see what all of the commotion was about, Peter stood up and delivered a passionate sermon. As a result, 3000 people were baptized.

2. Persecutions.

The initial persecutions of the early Jerusalem church were conducted exclusively by the Jewish religious leaders. These involved beatings and imprisonment. They escalated to the point where a mob took Stephen and stoned him to death.

Instead of destroying the church, these persecutions had the result of scattering the Christians to other lands. Within a few years, churches began to grow up in foreign cities.



THE ROAD TO REVOLUTION

Conditions in Judea were made rise for a revolution by the continued mismanagement of the Roman procurators.

1. Early Procurators.

Following the deposing of Archelaus from the position of Ethnarch (A.D. 6), the province of Judea was placed under a series of Roman procurators.

Pontius Pilate (26-36 A.D.) has the distinction of crucifying Jesus. He made several other mistakes in ruling the province, bringing graven images of eagles into Jerusalem and then confiscating Temple funds for civil projects.

In 39 A.D. the Emperor Caligula demanded that a statue of himself be set up for worship in the Temple in Jerusalem. The Jews pled their case to the Legate in Syria and the action was postponed. Before it could be carried out by force of arms, Caligula was assassinated and the order was rescinded.

2. Herod Agrippa I (41-44 A.D.).

All of Palestine was united for a brief period under the rule of Herod Agrippa 1st in A.D. 41. This time was a brief period of peace for the Jews.

3. Ventilius Cumanus.

Following the death of Agrippa, Judea was placed back under the authority of a Roman governor.

a. The Passover Incident.

Josephus describes one of the events which took place under the procuratorship of Cumanus. It took place on the Passover.

For when the multitude were come together to Jerusalem, to the feast of unleavened bread, and a Roman cohort stood over the cloisters of the temple (for they were always armed and kept guard at the festivals, to prevent any innovation which the multitude thus gathered together might make), one of the soldiers pulled back his garment and cowering down after an indecent manner, turned his buttocks to the Jews and spoke words as you might expect upon such a posture. At this the whole multitude had indignation and made a clamor to Cumanus, that he would punish the soldier; while the rasher part of the youth, and such as were naturally the most tumultuous, fell to fighting and caught up stones and threw them at the soldiers. (Wars of the Jews 2:12:1)

Cumanus tried to smooth things over, but the crowd would not be quieted. He called for more reinforcements and a panic ensued. Josephus estimates that 20,000 people were killed in the riot.

b. The Samaritan Conflict.

Further unrest was unleashed when a Jewish pilgrim traveling from Galilee to Jerusalem was murdered while passing through Samaria.

A Jewish mob, upon hearing the news, set out from Jerusalem to take vengeance upon the Samaritans.

Cumanus was recalled to Rome to answer for his inability to keep the peace. Cumanus was deposed and banished.

4. Antonius Felix (52-60 A.D.).

Felix had been the governor of Samaria and had been just as remiss as Cumanus in keeping the peace.

However, Felix had some strong political connections in Rome so that Cumanus was given the blame while Felix was given the position of procurator of Judea, Samaria and Galilee.

It was while Felix was procurator that the Apostle Paul came to the Temple in Jerusalem. Antagonistic Jews began a riot and the Roman garrison in the Antonia Fortress intervened, arresting Paul. Finding that he could not receive a fair trial in Jerusalem, Paul appealed to his Roman citizenship and was therefore transported to Caesarea to appear before Felix.

Felix heard the case, but refused to make a final decision. Paul was kept under house arrest for a period of two years. During this time, Felix had regular audiences with him.

5. Porcius Festus (60-62 A.D.).

When Festus came to power, there was already a complete breakdown of law and order in Palestine. Realizing the nature of the situation, he resolved to do nothing that would add to it. At the same time, he realized that he had little familiarity with Jewish laws and customs.

Accordingly, he brought in Agrippa 2nd to hear the case of Paul and agreed with the result that Paul was innocent of any wrongdoing. However, since Paul had already appealed to Caesar, he was sent to Rome. Festus did not rule for long, dying early in his tenure of office.

6. Albinus (62-65 A.D.).

It was remarked once that Roman governors generally spent their first year in office collecting taxes to pay the bribes which had served to acquire the governorship, the second year collecting taxes to pay the bribes to the judges who would try them for mismanagement, and the remainder of their years collecting taxes from which to make them wealthy for life. Albinus was an excellent example of this.

He did not only, in his political capacity, steal and plunder everyone's substance, nor did he only burden the whole nation with taxes, but he permitted the relations of such as were in prison for robbery... to redeem them for money. (Wars of the Jews 2:14:1)

7. Gessius Florus (65-66 A.D.).

Florus was even worse than Albinus. Thousands were put to death in senseless slaughter. Even Roman citizens were crucified.

Bernice, the sister of Agrippa 2nd tried to intercede, but her requests were ignored and she was forced to flee for her own life.

As Jerusalem balanced on the brink of revolt, Agrippa 2nd himself came to the city to urge the Jews to be patient. The crowds pelted him with stones.



THE REVOLT

There had been a growing antisemitism in Palestine for many years now, especially in those cities which were predominantly Greek. This flared into an eruption when a pagan sacrifice was made at the entrance of the synagogue in Caesarea.

1. The Temple Sacrifice.

For many years there had been a regular sacrifice offered in the Temple on behalf of the Roman Emperor. Eleazer, the Temple captain, ordered that these sacrifices be stopped.

2. Florus at the Temple.

Florus, the Roman procurator, responded by marching to Jerusalem with the soldiers under his command and raiding the Temple Treasury. When the Jews protested, he set his troops on the people, allowing them to murder, rape, and plunder at will. About 3600 Jews were killed.

3. Jerusalem Liberated.

The spark of revolt was now fanned into an open flame. The Romans within the city of Jerusalem were slaughtered. In the riot that followed, the High Priest was killed and his house burned along with the official archives in which all public records were kept.

4. Capture of Masada.

Menahem, son of Judas the Galilean, attacked and captured the fortress of Masada with its armory.



THE ROMAN DEFEAT

Josephus speaks of an ambiguous oracle that was also found in their sacred writings, how "about that time, one from their country should become governor of the habitable earth." The Jews took this prediction to belong to themselves in particular, and many of the wise men were thereby deceived in their determination (Wars of the Jews 6:5:4).

1. The Attack of the 12th Legion.

Cestius Gallus, the Roman governor of Syria marched against Israel with the 12th Legion. He fought his way into Jerusalem, but was stopped before the walls of the Temple.

For a week he made repeated attacks until the defenders were on the point of surrender. At the last moment and for no apparent reason, he pulled back and retreated from the city.

As he began to withdraw, the Jews counterattacked, inflicting enormous losses. The 12th Legion lost its eagle and its siege equipment.

2. The Results of the Jewish Victory.

This loss turned the revolt into a full-scale war for independence. The Jews were ecstatic. They set up their own government in Jerusalem, organized the country into seven military districts, and minted their own silver coins.




Only one group saw these events through different eyes. The Jewish Christians in Judea remembered the warning of Jesus.


Luke 21:20-22
But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is at hand. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are in the midst of the city depart, and let not those who are in the country enter the city, 22 because these are days of vengeance, in order that all things which are written may be fulfilled. "


The Christians remembered these words and they began to pack up and move out of Judea.




cont...>> THE WAR OF THE JEWS AND THE FALL OF JERUSALEM
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Only one group saw these events through different eyes. The Jewish Christians in Judea remembered the warning of Jesus.


Luke 21:20-22
But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is at hand. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are in the midst of the city depart, and let not those who are in the country enter the city, 22 because these are days of vengeance, in order that all things which are written may be fulfilled. "


The Christians remembered these words and they began to pack up and move out of Judea.




cont...>> THE WAR OF THE JEWS AND THE FALL OF JERUSALEM

Only one group saw these events through different eyes.

and is it not just the same today?