The Problem with Christus Victor?

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OldOrthodoxChristian

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Nov 23, 2011
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OldOrthodoxChristian

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Nov 23, 2011
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OldOrthodoxChristian;607827 said:
The Problem with Christus Victor? There is no

problem with Christus Victor!

"The Problem with Christus Victor" by Mark Galli 4/7/2011

www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2011/aprilweb-

only-christusvicarious.html

God save us by Christ's victory by His blood on the Cross over sin, evil,

death, satan and hell. Amen.

In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
Click to expand...

"... "neurotic substitutionary atonement" needs to be abandoned. THe

picture of a wrathful Father having his anger appeased by the death of

his Son is wrong on many fronts. Here's one: It separates the work of

the Father from the Son, as if they have competing concerns of the

Father with righteousness, the son with compassion. It sounds like the

Son saves us from the Father! This is manifestly unbiblical, for Paul

clearly says that "in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself" (2

Cor. 5:19). While we were sinners, God took action. God would not

have come to us in Christ had he not already determined to reconcile

with us. This is not the behavior of a God who stands aloof in a huff,

waiting for propitiation before he'll have anything to do with us".

Mark Galli, "The Problem with Christus Victor", Christianity Today,

4/7/2011

 
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RachelBibleStudent

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the main problem with the christus victor 'explanation' is that it doesn't actually -explain- anything!
 
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OldOrthodoxChristian

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Nov 23, 2011
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RachelBibleStudent said:
the main problem with the christus victor 'explanation' is that it doesn't

actually -explain- anything!
Click to expand...
That's exactly and precisely INCORRECT! See Revelation 22. Christ and His Church wins! Has victory over sin, evil, death, the Devil, and hell, and the grave. GOD wins; His Church has victory in Christ Jesus by the grace of God alone. The devil and his angels lose. Those on God's right hand win; those on God's left hand, who follow the devil, lose. God says on the Last Day Who are His Blessed ones. Those who repent and believe in Christ are SAVED; those who don't repent and believe in Christ are LOST.
CHRIST IS VICTOR. Christ is LORD. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Christus Victor teaching.
It actually explains everything, although it alone isn't all that can be explained. There is more to salvation in Christ than can be explained in one limited set of teachings or doctrines, but CHRISTUS VICTOR is COMPLETE ENOUGH to explain just about everything that WE NEED TO KNOW. Christ will have victory over our sins, and will pardon and forgive us when we REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM AND RECEIVE HIM. And do what He requires of us. Isn't that GOSPEL (THE GOOD NEWS)?
 
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RachelBibleStudent

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#5
OldOrthodoxChristian said:
That's exactly and precisely INCORRECT! See Revelation 22. Christ and His Church wins! Has victory over sin, evil, death, the Devil, and hell, and the grave. GOD wins; His Church has victory in Christ Jesus by the grace of God alone. The devil and his angels lose. Those on God's right hand win; those on God's left hand, who follow the devil, lose. God says on the Last Day Who are His Blessed ones. Those who repent and believe in Christ are SAVED; those who don't repent and believe in Christ are LOST.
CHRIST IS VICTOR. Christ is LORD. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Christus Victor teaching.
It actually explains everything, although it alone isn't all that can be explained. There is more to salvation in Christ than can be explained in one limited set of teachings or doctrines, but CHRISTUS VICTOR is COMPLETE ENOUGH to explain just about everything that WE NEED TO KNOW. Christ will have victory over our sins, and will pardon and forgive us when we REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM AND RECEIVE HIM. And do what He requires of us. Isn't that GOSPEL (THE GOOD NEWS)?
Click to expand...
how did jesus' death produce a victory? the christus victor theory neglects to explain that...it is a story with an end but no beginning or middle...

we need the beginning and middle to understand the end...we need the biblical substitutionary atonement teaching to show how jesus' death could constitute a victory at all...
 
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OldOrthodoxChristian

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Nov 23, 2011
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RachelBibleStudent;608170 said:
how did jesus' death produce a victory? the christus victor theory

neglects to explain that...it is a story with an end but no beginning or middle...

we need the beginning and middle to understand the end...we need the biblical substitutionary

atonement teaching to show how jesus' death could constitute a victory at all...
Click to expand...

Dear Rachel:

Did God the Father punish Christ the Son to rescue us from (the wrath of) God the Father, to save us

from God the Father? How could God save us from God? Does not God want to save us FOR God? (2

Peter 3:9)?

Doesn't penal substitutionary atonement theory, propitiation theory, imply we are saved by Christ a

merciful God from a merciless God the Father? Can you explain the logical implications of substitutionary

propitiatory atonement (penal atonement)?

In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

PS How can you fail to understand the victory gained by Jesus Christ for Christians by the saving

faith words of the early Church: "HE IS NOT HERE! HE IS RISEN! JUST AS HE SAID!" Isn't the

RESURRECTION OF CHRIST VICTORY OVER SIN, DEATH, EVIL, THE GRAVE, HELL AND SATAN?

Isn't it really GOOD NEWS? Unless Christ be Risen, the Christian Faith is vain (useless)!
 
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