The sheep

[eternally-gratefull]

Eg, whats up?? I didn't blow you off, what is going on here.

Hey I love this scripture and I try by His grace to keep this as a way to walk in His light,

Eph 4:1-3
1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

I'm not going to play games and call it edifying debate.
Please bro, back off

what is paul talking about there?
walk worthy of the vocation. what is our job here on earth?
is it to not be lights in the world? To bring others to Christ. To live a life where we can not be accused and give someone an excuse to not listen to us (to become unqualified as teachers and sharers of Gods word because of our lives?)

all of this which has nothing to do with us receiving eternal life. But how we should act after we get it.

and is this not exactly what Paul is saying in Philippians?

Phil 2: 11-15
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
14 Do all things without complaining and disputing, 15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,

Isn't this the context?

1. So that everyone who has not done so yet, should confess Jesus as lord.
2. Therfore (for this reason)
3. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling (the salvation you already have, the results of it)
4. God works in us for his pleasure (not ours)
5. Do things without complaining, and do not grumble among yourselves. why?
so we can be blameless as seen by the world, who will use everything against us when we teach to them to share this good news.
6. SO we can shine as lights in this world. and not turn the light off, thus being disqualified to be a teacher or anything else.

Paul is not talking about eternal life here. He is not saying work out your eternal life. He is saying work out the salvation you already have, with fear and trembling that you would be disqualified and not be able to be used by God.

I fear this every day!!

I do not fear I will not make it to heaven because I did not work hard enough

Sorry, I can't lay off when someone seems to be saying we have to work to earn salvation. for that is a false gospel.

If that is not what your saying, then forgive me, But that is WHY I asked you to explain in in the first place. Which if you did we would not be having this convo.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

no one is saved unless they first have a new heart given by God so they might have the ears that hear the Gospel and the Eyes to see the truth of their state and their need. You already know this so why are you nitpicking?

You also know that sometimes you only get a few sentences in before the person storms off or changes the topic or gets mad if you don't let them continue in their delusions. Sometimes silence and prayer and living a life God leads to live by simply loving others is a wonderful testimony in and of itself. then when God allows you can try again to tell them of the gospel.


Philippians 3:12
Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.

Calvin got it wrong. No one is born again, then has faith. this is so far off base it is pitiful

 

[Consumed]

what is paul talking about there?
walk worthy of the vocation. what is our job here on earth?
is it to not be lights in the world? To bring others to Christ. To live a life where we can not be accused and give someone an excuse to not listen to us (to become unqualified as teachers and sharers of Gods word because of our lives?)

all of this which has nothing to do with us receiving eternal life. But how we should act after we get it.

and is this not exactly what Paul is saying in Philippians?

Phil 2: 11-15
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
14 Do all things without complaining and disputing, 15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in
the world,

Isn't this the context?

1. So that everyone who has not done so yet, should confess Jesus as lord.
2. Therfore (for this reason)
3. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling (the salvation you already have, the results of it)
4. God works in us for his pleasure (not ours)
5. Do things without complaining, and do not grumble among yourselves. why?
so we can be blameless as seen by the world, who will use everything against us when we teach to them to share this good news.
6. SO we can shine as lights in this world. and not turn the light off, thus being disqualified to be a teacher or anything else.

Paul is not talking about eternal life here. He is not saying work out your eternal life. He is saying work out the salvation you already have, with fear and trembling that you would be disqualified and not be able to be used by God.

I fear this every day!!

I do not fear I will not make it to heaven because I did not work hard enough

Sorry, I can't lay off when someone seems to be saying we have to work to earn salvation. for that is a false gospel.
If that is not what your saying, then forgive me, But that is WHY I asked you to explain in in the first place. Which if you did we would not be having this convo.

ok, I'll articulate it for you, zone is no dummy, but asks dummy questions, Only reason we are having this conversation is cause you demanded of sorts I have to justify myself, you were looking more into it than it really was. I love Kathy very much, yet she was posting all over the forum sarcastic questions, after 6000+ posts she knows the gospel. I kept stating I don't want to get drawn into this but here I am drawn in by it. Rofl at myself

Let it go please eg. Please

 

[zone]

the order changes depending on the person you are talking to. You are to follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit when you witness to the Lost. there is a lot of prayer, heartache and attacks by the person who you are witnessing to because they do not want to believe but eventually if God leads them and gives them that new heart they will come back over and over again to get the full message or even better they will read the Bible themselves and pray, but sometimes we have to testify how we learned and how we pray and be examples not only in Word but also in Deed.

yes I figured you would point out the gaps. its just an outline and for the believer to know not the sinner being saved for it is a good work God sometimes places in the hearts of His children to engage and help save another from Satan's lies.

let's try this again:

Romans 9:16
It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. [HELLO?]

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

1 Peter 1:5
who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Galatians 3:2
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?

Galatians 3:5
Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

1 Thessalonians 2:13
And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

OUR "TESTIMONIES" AND STORIES ARE WORTHLESS.

how are men saved?

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith

faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

 

[zone]

ok, I'll articulate it for you, zone is no dummy, but asks dummy questions,

nah alex.

i hear a lotta dumb stuff.
just throwing back in here as a strategy to SHOW IT FOR WHAT IT IS.
but nobody gets it anyways.


later.

 

[AnandaHya]

Calvin got it wrong. No one is born again, then has faith. this is so far off base it is pitiful

mmm didn't say they were born again at that point. said they were given a new heart which they can chose to allow to harden and become rocky soil, or allow the birds to still the word or allow the cares of the world to choke it out.

one is not born again until they receive the Holy Spirit which only happens After repentance of sins and confession of faith that Jesus is Lord and savior.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

mmm didn't say they were born again at that point. said they were given a new heart which they can chose to allow to harden and become rocky soil, or allow the birds to still the word or allow the cares of the world to choke it out.

one is not born again until they receive the Holy Spirit which only happens After repentance of sins and confession of faith that Jesus is Lord and savior.

"given a new heart" is a term that means born again.

Our heart is dead. we are not given a new heart until we are saved.

 

[AnandaHya]

let's try this again:

Romans 9:16
It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. [HELLO?] yep the whole new heart thing without it people would never repent..

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
yes and we should preach this and increase people's faith but without God's help no one would believe and be saved for they would not see their sin and their need for a savior


Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- same as above

1 Peter 1:5
who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

yes you talk to them until God baptizes them with the Holy Spirit and they confess with their mouth and BELIEVE with their heart Jesus is Lord and Savior and they are God's child beloved and honored to call out to God "Abba, Father"

Galatians 3:2
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? yes you are not trapped by chains of legalism but to follow JESUS and sometime He tells you to do good works for the glory of His name

Galatians 3:5
Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

1 Thessalonians 2:13
And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

OUR "TESTIMONIES" AND STORIES ARE WORTHLESS. no that is not true. why then did the disciples of Christ talk about the lives of Paul and Peter and others in the Bible? the whole Bible is a testimony of lives lived for Jesus and our stories should be the same.

how are men saved?

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith

faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

those verses are messages for believers as they are working out their own salvation.

that is a different topic. I was talking about witnessing to the lost. the lost do NOT have the WORD (Jesus/ the Holy Spirit) in them so those verses would be useless to them because they could not relate.

anyways why are we having this theoritical conversation again?

i'm not really an evangelist, its not the spiritual gift God gave me but I will stand and witness why I believe to the best of my God given ability to speak of my faith in Jesus. Praying all the while not to stumble and be tripped up by my own words. I thank God He judges not only words but the heart that speaks them.

 

[AnandaHya]

"given a new heart" is a term that means born again.

Our heart is dead. we are not given a new heart until we are saved.

that is where we differ.

Ezekiel 18:31
Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel?

why does it say New heart AND new spirit if they are not separate things?

the new heart is the baptism of the water of conviction and readies the soil for the seed which is the Word/Gospel of Christ.

the new spirit is the baptism of the Holy Spirit and only happens when the seed takes root and is not choked out by the cares of the world, stolen by birds, or fallen on a prideful harden heart (for people can reject the conviction and chose not to submit to the LORDSHIP of Christ)

that is how I read it.

 

[Strangelove]

1. Psalm 95:7
   For He is our God and we are the people of His pasture and the sheep of His hand. Today, if you will hear His voice,
   Psalm 95:6-8 (in Context) Psalm 95 (Whole Chapter)
2. John 10:27
   The sheep that are My own hear and are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me.
   John 10:26-28 (in Context) John 10 (Whole Chapter)

If you don't hear God please ask him to help you! If you don't hear, it means you are lost.

__________________

I believe in, follow, and obey the Savior of the world, Jesus Christ. Does that count?

 

[AnandaHya]

I believe in, follow, and obey the Savior of the world, Jesus Christ. Does that count?

Is He your Lord?

believe, follow and obey in Jesus Christ as Savior ck sounds good to me.

the only question that comes to mind is how do you know the One you are following is Jesus?

 

[Strangelove]

work out your salvation with trembling and fear - anybody know what that means?

Oooohh me me me...I know..

It means....KNOW THE GOSPEL of salvation and, by Jesus name, you better know it with RESPECT to GOD.

SOLA DEI GLORIA!!

 

[Strangelove]

I'll answer since SALVATION is not a game and God tells us to preach His gospel whenever we get a chance.

WHat is it?

That everyone in the whole world is a SINNER in need of a Savior.

that they need to be Awaken to that truth and feel Conviction in their heart.

that they need to REPENT of their sin of disobedience of God.

that they need to TURN FROM Sin and Towards God.

that they need to pray for forgiveness and cleansing of sins through the BLOOD of JESUS

then they need to Hear about Jesus and His death on the Cross. that is found in the Gospels

Then they need to Have FAITH that He is their LORD and Savior and ask for Him to come live in their hearts

Then God will baptism them with the Holy Spirit and they will have the blessed assurance that they are a Child of God and can not be lost but have been saved from the fires of Hell.

Next they are to learn maturity and sound doctrine so they might do the good works God saved them for.

then they will most likely die and go to Heaven (the timing of which is debated but it doesnt really matter since no debate will change this truth)

I know the question wasn't asked to me but I think it needs to be spoken nevertheless.

Hang on...this is way too much twaddle...

Lets pretend we are explaining this to a child. Needs to be simple. How are we saved?

3 things we need to get through.

1) Grace
2) Faith
3) Not us....HIM!

Perfect verse:

(Ephesians 2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The whole Gospel right there in 1 verse.

Clean as a whistle. Job done.

Thats how we're saved. Thats the Good News.

By Grace
Through Faith in Jesus
From Gods work not our own.

 

[Strangelove]

those verses are messages for believers as they are working out their own salvation.

that is a different topic. I was talking about witnessing to the lost. the lost do NOT have the WORD (Jesus/ the Holy Spirit) in them so those verses would be useless to them because they could not relate.

Like....huh?

Its THE GOSPEL. Its for believers and unbelievers. It's the truth of how we're saved.

How else would you tell someone who asked you how they can be saved?

 

[AnandaHya]

How does God equip His people for every good work He saved them for?

 

[AnandaHya]

How else would you tell someone who asked you how they can be saved?

like I said before it depends on the person, their personal past experiences

what mental and emotional strongholds they have erected against the gospel of Christ

and why they are not already believers in Jesus

and what God places in my heart to do and say.

I would give them those verses but it is not a one shoot thing.

being a disciple of Jesus is about relationship not just statements of faith.

most have already heard the Gospel but are not disciples, have you ever asked yourself WHY?

have you ever prayed and asked GOD why and what He wants YOU to do about it?

 

[Strangelove]

like I said before it depends on the person, their personal past experiences

what mental and emotional strongholds they have erected against the gospel of Christ

and why they are not already believers in Jesus

and what God places in my heart to do and say.

I would give them those verses but it is not a one shoot thing.

being a disciple of Jesus is about relationship not just statements of faith.

most have already heard the Gospel but are not disciples, have you ever asked yourself WHY?

have you ever prayed and asked GOD why and what He wants YOU to do about it?

The question was HOW ARE YOU SAVED?

Its a simple answer to ANYONE.

By Grace through Faith in Jesus ONLY by the power of God.

You have SO much waffle woman.

 

[Strangelove]

How does God equip His people for every good work He saved them for?

Depends on the person.

(insert multiple lines of waffle here)

 

[AnandaHya]

The question was HOW ARE YOU SAVED?
.

oh so you are just concerned about you and the rest of the world can figure it out on their own?

ok, I'll leave you to that one then.

 

[Strangelove]

oh so you are just concerned about you and the rest of the world can figure it out on their own?

ok, I'll leave you to that one then.

I wish you would.