The Two Covenants (requested by a friend)

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p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#1
The Two Covenants:
(my personal thoughts concerning the Two Covenants as I understand Scripture……again, my “personal” thoughts)

The First Covenant (Law) was made by God with the Nation of Israel. God established the Nation of Israel as His “chosen” people. Some people say that there were more than 2 Covenants made, and they are correct to a point. However, we look at the First Covenant and the New Covenant as being between God and a Nation (First) and a Church (New), and not as a Covenant between God and a particular person, or for a particular/singular purpose. We ourselves can enter into a Covenant with God, and while it will surely be a Covenant, it will not be as the First and New Covenants Christians most often discuss/refer to.

God made a covenant with Abraham in order to create a people unto Himself, and circumcision serves as the sign of this Covenant. The second covenant is the inheritance of a land, a literal geographical area, made irrevocable by a divine oath.
The third covenant is the one known as the “Old Testament/Law” and is based on Torah. This is the first covenant based on "blood," for it was ratified by Moses with the sprinkling of animal blood on the people. The fourth covenant is with King David, established by God’s promise, that David’s throne would endure forever, with a Son of His loins sitting on it, and that David’s bloodline, would continue forever.

The fifth covenant is the “New Testament/Grace”. This New Covenant (and a blood covenant as well) was established by the birth, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ, by His own precious blood. The precious blood of Jesus Christ served to replace and make void the need of the “animal blood” sacrifices of the first covenant as well as the lordship of Torah. For He became our High Priest for all time.

In the above descriptions, what we know as the First Covenant is the “blood” covenant described in explanation #3. #’s 1 – 2, and 4 are Covenants made with a specific person, or for a limited purpose, and actually (in my opinion) are all a “continuation of establishment” of the First Covenant. In other words, God established his First Covenant in four steps……..while they may seem different, and are to a degree, they ALL fulfill the purpose of His First Covenant with the Nation of Israel.


The First Covenant was intended to make mankind “aware” of their sin. To bring them into judgment for their sin, and to make them “aware” of their need to repent of their sin and return to God.


Hebrews 9:22) And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.


The 9[SUP]th[/SUP] Chapter of Hebrews truly explains the First and New Covenants quite well. If you read and understand it, you will have gone a long way to answering all of your questions concerning the Two Covenants.
However, the First Covenant’s MAIN point was “the Promise” of a Saviour! Jesus Christ. While the First Covenant was not “unto salvation,” but “unto judgment,” the fulfillment of the First Covenant was the birth, crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord. A Perfect Blood Sacrifice One Time for All Mankind.

John 3:16) For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.


In the 10[SUP]th[/SUP] Chapter of Romans do we understand the “transition” from the First Covenant to the New Covenant, and the reason why. Now, some do not believe that the First Covenant ended, waxed old, however the Scriptures are fairly clear in my opinion.


Romans 10:1)
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 .) For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 .) But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 .) For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 .) Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 .) In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 .) Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 .) Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 .) Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 .) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 .) And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 .) But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 .) From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 .) For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 .) Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 .) This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 .) And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 .) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 19 .) Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 .) By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 .) And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 .) Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.


The New Covenant (Grace) is God’s Salvation Plan for all mankind who will accept it. Jesus Christ “fulfilled” the “Promise” of the First Covenant, and established the New Covenant which is an “everlasting Covenant God has made with His children/people.
We, the Church, are under the New Covenant which is Grace. We have an High Priest Jesus the Christ ……… 12 .) But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 .) From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 .) For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Now, concerning your question about the “violence” recorded in the Old Testament. Let me say that I do not “know the mind of God,” or why He would allow certain things, and not allow others. I do believe that God is the Master and Creator of all, and He HAS a Master Plan that I can not fully understand. Nor can any man in my opinion.


Given that, some thoughts to consider: First, God is a “just” God, which is to say He will have “mercy” on those He will have “mercy” on, and He will “pour out His wrath” upon those who He will “pour out His wrath” upon. It is true that there are far more descriptive Scriptures in the Old Testament concerning God’s wrath, and the evil of man, but let us not forget that man has been killing man since the fall of Adam and Eve, however, the “level/amount” of violence in the world BEFORE CHRIST CAME was far less (in my opinion) than the level/amount of violence in the world since His resurrection. Goodness, just read through History to see how much death and destruction has occurred since Jesus ascended to the Throne of God.

What we do not read in the New Testament is the totality of the violence that occurred even in that time, from the day of Pentecost until the end of the Epistle of Jude. That does not mean violence did not occur, for it surely did, and we are given “snippets” of the violence in various accounts of the Book of Acts, and from a few of the Epistles.

The First Testament (Old Testament) is, in my opinion, a Historical account of all that transpired prior to the birth of Christ. It is very important for all believers to read, study, and learn from this Testament, for it is the foundation laid for the New Testament. Remember what the Scriptures say that I referenced.
Romans 10: 7 .) Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

It is also important to remember that there are many Scriptures you can study in the Old Testament that do not deal with violence and such, but I can understand how one can feel uncomfortable given the numerous passages that do deal with violence, bloodshed, and such. If you are too uncomfortable reading all of the Old Testament, search through and read those Scriptures you are at ease reading. Be sure to spend quality time studying the New Testament, and if your Bible gives “reference Scriptures” in its margins, give them a quick read as well. It will help you to see how all of Scripture ties together.

Final thought: It is important to understand that God did not break His Covenant with the Nation of Israel. He fulfilled His Promise, for Jesus the Christ is the fulfillment of that Covenant. One way I describe the Two Covenants in “nut shell” form is…… The First Covenant/Law, was with a Nation.....The New Covenant/Grace is with the Church, Also important is to know that “all who profess Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, and are born again ARE members of the Church and have been made “heirs” to the Promise. There is no single denomination or such that can claim to be the One True Church, for ALL BELIEVERS are members of the One True Church without regard for “denominational labels.”

Hope this helps to answer some of your questions. God bless.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,330
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#2
My apologies.........just realized that the source(s) I referenced for this post did not post........sigh.....what appears in red is information from sources referenced...........either paraphrased, or quoted directly. Hey, credit where credit is due.

Sources referenced:

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7k8RRbhSoikAOrZXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzZWI3djZiBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1ZJUDM0M18x/SIG=128i06mcs/EXP=1387836817/**http%3a//ortzion.hostcentric.com/welcometruth-pg4.html

King James Bible


(ok, for whatever reason, it is putting all of the info up there....but the link still works....)
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
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#3
Thanks for this recap of the covenants. I would like to bring up some points I think aren't biblically correct, and give another way of looking at scripture in some.

The purpose of God creating the Hebrew race wasn't to have a race for Himself, but to preserve the true God for all races. Most people in the world were creating false God's and creating an unsafe world where even babies were killed.

When God created the world, the first day He records His methods was a day God gave "owr" that is translated light. It wasn't sunlight, it was God's goodness and God's plan for the world. God does operate in our time frame, for God there are no ages. God is "I Am". Christ was part of the "I Am". To us, Christ was resurrected in about the year 32, but for the about 4,000 years of the world, blood as the symbol of Christ was used for atonement. That wasn't established years later by Moses, it simply was. It is explained by Cain and Abel. The fruit of works of agriculture was not what atoned, only the symbol of the blood of Christ.

That also explained that grace was from the beginning of time. In Isaiah it is explained that when Hebrews used blood in the wrong way, God hated the blood they used. They would cheat their neighbors and say it was fine to do because they would cover it with blood sacrifice. All through the OT it explains God is the only one who is God, the only one who can perform the supernatural atonement. Man has never been given the power to do this by any act of his, it is only God who can do it and always was. That is grace.

The entire purpose of the book of Hebrews is to explain how we are to grow in Christ. Christians today often say it means that we aren't to know anything about how God was explained before, we are simply to learn the mature Christians we are now. It is like saying you are going to get rid of anything of you before the age of 20, wipe it out, because you are past that age.

The OT gives God principles explained over 4,000 years of history, the NT takes in less than 100 years. There has to be a lot left out.

If you read the violence reported in the OT in light of the history of that age, you will see that the entire purpose of God is how to live in the world He created in peace and goodness. In the world Abraham came from, in all the gentile countries, there was no justice or safety. If you carefully look at what God said about stoning people who disobeyed, you will find that there was lots of checks on that. What it says is that this is so important to your safety and well being, if you disobey it is THIS serious. As an example, in our world the laws of morality God gave are very often not used. There is no safety in marriage as a result, and marriage is often not a joy of being as one.

The OT is accurate history, but that is not the purpose of the OT. The history is only to show the connection between our spiritual world and our material world. If we read it as only history we are missing the point of it.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#4
And that's the wonderful thing about Public Forums and opinions, they do tend to go together........ :)
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#5
And that's the wonderful thing about Public Forums and opinions, they do tend to go together........ :)
This is a Christian forum, where we are trying to not give personal opinions, but report on God's word. If you feel that what I say is not God's word, say so. I do not read scripture to form a personal opinion, but to learn of God. We all see darkly, that is what a Christian forum is about. I think some of your report of God's word was not seeing the complete picture of what God is telling us in scripture, not that you are giving a personal opinion.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,330
6,620
113
#6
This is a Christian forum, where we are trying to not give personal opinions, but report on God's word. If you feel that what I say is not God's word, say so. I do not read scripture to form a personal opinion, but to learn of God. We all see darkly, that is what a Christian forum is about. I think some of your report of God's word was not seeing the complete picture of what God is telling us in scripture, not that you are giving a personal opinion.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion of what they believe God's Word to be teaching. The only way to not offer an opinion, is to only quote Scripture without adding any personal verbiage to the comment. I will give you an example.......

John 3:16) For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.

(now that is a "report on God's Word, BUT IF I were to add the statement)

"This is God's salvation plan for all mankind."

(It now becomes a "personal opinion" of what I believe the Word of God means)

Now, let us look at your opening remark from your first comment on this thread. You stated:

QUOTE: "Thanks for this recap of the covenants. I would like to bring up some points I think aren't biblically correct, and give another way of looking at scripture in some." END QUOTE

........and now look at this statement.........

QUOTE: "This is a Christian forum, where we are trying to not give personal opinions," END QUOTE


Now, I thank you for your comments, and wish you a Merry Christmas!