Understanding God’s election
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But God has ordained that His elect's new birth be by the Spirit and the Word! And Jesus did not waste his breath in Mat 7:7 by pointing out man's spiritual duty -- a duty that man is powerless to perform per John 6. The Word of God is of inestimable value since it informs and teaches man all manner of spiritual truth. How else would a person know if he's living up to God's revealed will?
Jesus told people to do what they cannot do?!
Do you understand "and it shall be given you/and you will find/and the door will be opened unto you"???
IOW, man is NOT powerless to seek, etc., but rather every morally accountable soul is divinely enabled to do so--or not (not irresistibly), because God does not show favoritism.
GW is of great value, but needing to negate the TULIPist nuance in order to preserve that value is tedious.
Do you understand "and it shall be given you/and you will find/and the door will be opened unto you"???
IOW, man is NOT powerless to seek, etc., but rather every morally accountable soul is divinely enabled to do so--or not (not irresistibly), because God does not show favoritism.
GW is of great value, but needing to negate the TULIPist nuance in order to preserve that value is tedious.
If everyone were "divinely enabled", all mankind would be saved.
Moreover, no FWer here has been able to explain how Unconditional Election of God's elect can be biased since ALL men w/o exception are sinners, all have fallen short of the glory of God and God saves all men w/o distinction from all nations around the world. So, explain to me what could possibly be the basis for God's "favoritism"? (Oh wait I know....maybe God is partial to good looking people like myself.)
Moreover, no FWer here has been able to explain how Unconditional Election of God's elect can be biased since ALL men w/o exception are sinners, all have fallen short of the glory of God and God saves all men w/o distinction from all nations around the world. So, explain to me what could possibly be the basis for God's "favoritism"? (Oh wait I know....maybe God is partial to good looking people like myself.)
The Reformed or “Calvinists,” as they are all too frequently identified, have been viewed as pairing almost dualistically “the nothingness of man” with “the overmastering power of God,” and, accordingly, as teaching a fundamentally predestinarian or deterministic theology—whether in utter accord with Calvin's thought or in a further, negative development of it. (p. 21)
Yes, I reject the Calvinistic view of T and man as a corpse theory. It actually seems stupid and you work hard at attempting to substantiate it.
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It fits you to a T. You harp constantly on how vile man is and you negate portions of verses and eisegete others in order to bring and maintain a focus on this. You have posted more about God's hatred than anyone I've encountered. The shoe fits perfectly and the ID was from within the Calvinism ranks explaining his view of some of the problems within the ranks. He's identifying you.Yes, I reject the Calvinistic view of T and man as a corpse theory. It actually seems stupid and you work hard at attempting to substantiate it.
If everyone were "divinely enabled", all mankind would be saved.
Moreover, no FWer here has been able to explain how Unconditional Election of God's elect can be biased since ALL men w/o exception are sinners, all have fallen short of the glory of God and God saves all men w/o distinction from all nations around the world. So, explain to me what could possibly be the basis for God's "favoritism"? (Oh wait I know....maybe God is partial to good looking people like myself.)
Moreover, no FWer here has been able to explain how Unconditional Election of God's elect can be biased since ALL men w/o exception are sinners, all have fallen short of the glory of God and God saves all men w/o distinction from all nations around the world. So, explain to me what could possibly be the basis for God's "favoritism"? (Oh wait I know....maybe God is partial to good looking people like myself.)
You know very well that being able to do something does not mean that one will necessarily do it.
You also know that God does not show favoritism by such enabling of all,
so please stop pretending to be unknowing so we can reach a destination instead of playing ping-pong.
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Once again, from within the ranks of Calvinism, a commentary on its own:
The Reformed or “Calvinists,” as they are all too frequently identified, have been viewed as pairing almost dualistically “the nothingness of man” with “the overmastering power of God,” and, accordingly, as teaching a fundamentally predestinarian or deterministic theology—whether in utter accord with Calvin's thought or in a further, negative development of it. (p. 21)
As I've said, your corpse - now dead dog (amazing) - addiction is stupid. Some within your camp can see the problems it's causing for the camp which you've attempted to isolate from while maintaining its core TULIP. For various reasons it's pretty simple to see why you may well have been banned from some reformed sites.
Yes, I am a huge fan of the Gospel, of our Lord and first-born brother and King, of our Heavenly Father and His Gospel Plan for our Salvation, and of His Spirit and His work among us, and of God's Word which fills my days, etc... Thanks for being able to at least see some truth.
Honestly, I'm not sure where you're getting this new spiel about me talking about freedom. But I'm used to you making things up. As I've said, it's not my norm to even use "free will".
As I've consistently offered you, anytime you think you have and can maintain the focus to go through Scripture in context on most any Biblical point, bring it up, I'll consider it and how you're proposing it, and maybe we can settle in and do some work and see what we all might learn from it.
A quick search in in the NKJ English using the software I've used for decades (concordance and way beyond) shows "free*" (* = wildcard to include all endings) shows 123 hits in 117 verses. Got a favorite? We can invite @GWH to do some harmonizing and anyone else who'd like to join in and be objective (likely better than you can).
Come on Dufus. You keep ignoring when you can't answer actual discussions in Scripture any further and I and others keep letting you off the hook to rabbit-trail into other things. You're a professional arguer who recedes into fallacious tactics when you're [often] cornered.
Are you done with Gen20 & Jer13? Did you not like my rhetorical question about God telling the king he was a dead man being an example of the compatibilism you were asserting. Hey, knucklehead! Wake up! If you don't do what I say, you're dead! OK, sir, right away... Compatibilism.
There's another thread @GWH has been inviting posters to where he's working point by point on this election topic. It looks much more focused and constructive than dealing with your nonsense, which as he's said, is tedious. You're an endless repetitive supplier of stuff (clean version) thrown against the wall for others to clean up.
The Reformed or “Calvinists,” as they are all too frequently identified, have been viewed as pairing almost dualistically “the nothingness of man” with “the overmastering power of God,” and, accordingly, as teaching a fundamentally predestinarian or deterministic theology—whether in utter accord with Calvin's thought or in a further, negative development of it. (p. 21)
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As I said, the shoes fits. And in this diatribe, you're doing at minimum two things; (1) trying to assert that your opponents minimize God's holiness, which is more lightweight tactical garbage, and (2) in another "nothingness of man" blast, negating that man is made in God's image and retains a conscience, some reasoning abilities, knowledge of God's power and divinity, and volition, all of which God knows how to work with to get man's attention to what He's offering.
As I've said, your corpse - now dead dog (amazing) - addiction is stupid. Some within your camp can see the problems it's causing for the camp which you've attempted to isolate from while maintaining its core TULIP. For various reasons it's pretty simple to see why you may well have been banned from some reformed sites.
Yes, I am a huge fan of the Gospel, of our Lord and first-born brother and King, of our Heavenly Father and His Gospel Plan for our Salvation, and of His Spirit and His work among us, and of God's Word which fills my days, etc... Thanks for being able to at least see some truth.
Honestly, I'm not sure where you're getting this new spiel about me talking about freedom. But I'm used to you making things up. As I've said, it's not my norm to even use "free will".
As I've consistently offered you, anytime you think you have and can maintain the focus to go through Scripture in context on most any Biblical point, bring it up, I'll consider it and how you're proposing it, and maybe we can settle in and do some work and see what we all might learn from it.
A quick search in in the NKJ English using the software I've used for decades (concordance and way beyond) shows "free*" (* = wildcard to include all endings) shows 123 hits in 117 verses. Got a favorite? We can invite @GWH to do some harmonizing and anyone else who'd like to join in and be objective (likely better than you can).
Come on Dufus. You keep ignoring when you can't answer actual discussions in Scripture any further and I and others keep letting you off the hook to rabbit-trail into other things. You're a professional arguer who recedes into fallacious tactics when you're [often] cornered.
Are you done with Gen20 & Jer13? Did you not like my rhetorical question about God telling the king he was a dead man being an example of the compatibilism you were asserting. Hey, knucklehead! Wake up! If you don't do what I say, you're dead! OK, sir, right away... Compatibilism.
There's another thread @GWH has been inviting posters to where he's working point by point on this election topic. It looks much more focused and constructive than dealing with your nonsense, which as he's said, is tedious. You're an endless repetitive supplier of stuff (clean version) thrown against the wall for others to clean up.
Mr. GWH: I have something for you to "harmonize". Harmonize these two passages:
John 8:11
11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more."]]
ESV
And in anticipation of you objecting to my use of the above passage on the grounds of spuriousness then here is another very similar to it:
John 5:14
14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."
NIV
Now compare the above two texts with this one below
1 John 1:8
8 If we say that we have no sin , we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
NASB
So, why would Jesus tell these people to do something impossible that would also contradict scripture?
John 8:11
11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more."]]
ESV
And in anticipation of you objecting to my use of the above passage on the grounds of spuriousness then here is another very similar to it:
John 5:14
14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."
NIV
Now compare the above two texts with this one below
1 John 1:8
8 If we say that we have no sin , we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
NASB
So, why would Jesus tell these people to do something impossible that would also contradict scripture?
IOW, you CANNOT answer my question! So much for all your spiritual ability that you proudly boast of. You raise a stupid straw man objection to which you're UNABLE to substantiate. You keep telling us that if God doesn't enable all w/o exception then that means God is playing favorites -- but you CANNOT tell us what the basis for such favoritism would be whereby He would favor one person over another: Race, ethnicity, righteousness, piety, godliness, good looks, dynamic personality, what???
It's crystal clear to me that you never give your brain a chance to catch up to your typing fingers.
It's crystal clear to me that you never give your brain a chance to catch up to your typing fingers.
Erroneous interpretation by the "nothingness of man" proclaimer once again. Beautiful metaphors and lessons re: the end condition of degeneracy from departing from the One True God and learning from the nations. A lesson for all of us. (Jer. 13:25-27 NKJ) This is your lot, The portion of your measures from Me," says the LORD, Because you have forgotten Me And trusted in falsehood. 26 Therefore I will uncover your skirts over your face, That your shame may appear. 27 I have seen your adulteries And your lustful neighings, The lewdness of your harlotry, Your abominations on the hills in the fields. Woe to you, O Jerusalem! Will you still not be made clean?"
Give it up.
Give it up.
Correction is necessary at times.
"If you had a any true understanding of God's holiness, you would invariably see yourself as a "maggot", a "worm of a man", a "dead dog" compared to a thrice holy God! But you proud, arrogant FWers just cannot see yourselves in this light!"
I don't think the scripture states that the Gentiles are, "dead dogs", rather, the Gentiles eat the crumbs that fall from
the master's table (Matthew 15;27).
The Gentiles are living dogs not, "dead dogs".
I doubt whether any Christian is unaware of the holiness of God.
Isaiah 6:3
And they were calling to one another: “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory.”
Again Rufus, the sovereignty of God over everything is the doctrine of every Christian church.
What is it that you are accusing Christians of?
Calvinists also claim Sola Scripture.
Yet, they are usually Cessationist which is not Sola Scripture.
It would be a contradiction to deny the ministries and gifts of the Holy Spirit and believe in Sola Scripture.
Calvin did not understand the letter to the Romans and there is no doubt about that.
"If you had a any true understanding of God's holiness, you would invariably see yourself as a "maggot", a "worm of a man", a "dead dog" compared to a thrice holy God! But you proud, arrogant FWers just cannot see yourselves in this light!"
I don't think the scripture states that the Gentiles are, "dead dogs", rather, the Gentiles eat the crumbs that fall from
the master's table (Matthew 15;27).
The Gentiles are living dogs not, "dead dogs".
I doubt whether any Christian is unaware of the holiness of God.
Isaiah 6:3
And they were calling to one another: “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory.”
Again Rufus, the sovereignty of God over everything is the doctrine of every Christian church.
What is it that you are accusing Christians of?
Calvinists also claim Sola Scripture.
Yet, they are usually Cessationist which is not Sola Scripture.
It would be a contradiction to deny the ministries and gifts of the Holy Spirit and believe in Sola Scripture.
Calvin did not understand the letter to the Romans and there is no doubt about that.
You are better at asking others to harmonize than at harmonizing yourself,
but asking is not bad as long as you sincerely seek answers.
In this case, the harmonization is easy. John 8:11 & 5:14 agree with what Jesus said in Matt. 5:44 & 48
and what Paul taught in Phil. 3:12-16: Even though Christians are credited with the righteousness of Christ
because of them having faith like Abraham (Rom. 3), they should strive for actual moral maturity even though
perfection will not be attained during this earthly experience, for which 1John 1:8-9 is the remedy.
but asking is not bad as long as you sincerely seek answers.
In this case, the harmonization is easy. John 8:11 & 5:14 agree with what Jesus said in Matt. 5:44 & 48
and what Paul taught in Phil. 3:12-16: Even though Christians are credited with the righteousness of Christ
because of them having faith like Abraham (Rom. 3), they should strive for actual moral maturity even though
perfection will not be attained during this earthly experience, for which 1John 1:8-9 is the remedy.
I have heard it said that Christians across the board accept God's sovereignty, but I have never heard
so much belly-aching about that very thing as I have from people who claim to be Christians while
promoting their beloved erroneous free will fantasy which has its basis in philosophical belly gazing.
so much belly-aching about that very thing as I have from people who claim to be Christians while
promoting their beloved erroneous free will fantasy which has its basis in philosophical belly gazing.
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John 6:37
The truth is, that no man will come to Christ on his own. Turning to Christ will only happen after the HS changes our heart.
Once this happens – yes, we will turn to Christ simply because the Father gave us to Christ, and all who are given to Him will come and will not be cast out. It's really that simple!
You would think that FW'ers would celebrate this truth, but the sad fact is that they feel the need to contribute in some way.
As for me, I accept this free gift with thankfulness and realize that I could never stand before God by my own works.
The truth is, that no man will come to Christ on his own. Turning to Christ will only happen after the HS changes our heart.
Once this happens – yes, we will turn to Christ simply because the Father gave us to Christ, and all who are given to Him will come and will not be cast out. It's really that simple!
You would think that FW'ers would celebrate this truth, but the sad fact is that they feel the need to contribute in some way.
As for me, I accept this free gift with thankfulness and realize that I could never stand before God by my own works.
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