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K
can you support that with scripture?just forgetting the hell bit for a while....doesnt gods word say that he created humans to live on the earth foever....isnt it only throuh the original sin that we die?so if there was no original sin there would have been no death..and therefore humans would have an eternal existence?...i dont understand where the belief of going to heaven after we die comes from????
R
The bottom line is the original sin did occur. Since God is omniscient, the event did not take him by surprise. He knew it was going to happen before it did. So the plan for man to go to heaven must have been God's plan all along.
What do you believe that David meant when he said he shall go to be with his deceased son?
2 Samuel 12:23 - But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
What do you believe that David meant when he said he shall go to be with his deceased son?
2 Samuel 12:23 - But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
K
but doesnt it seem a little pointless for god to have made a beautiful place like the earth...for humans to enjoy...but then die and go to heaven....why didnt he just create humans in heaven if thats what he wanted?....because he didnt...god made the angels for heaven and humans for the earth......Most people tend to believe heaven to be a beautiful place (which im sure it is )but why did jesus bring back people from the dead....would it not have been a better witness for him to say...do not fear because they have gone somewhere better...no jesus used these examples to show how he could and will ressurect humans to a life on earth.
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eziek
The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.
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I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him.
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Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height;
11
I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness.
12
And strangers, the terrible of the nations, have cut him off, and have left him: upon the mountains and in all the valleys his branches are fallen, and his boughs are broken by all the rivers of the land; and all the people of the earth are gone down from his shadow, and have left him.
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Upon his ruin shall all the fowls of the heaven remain, and all the beasts of the field shall be upon his branches:
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To the end that none of all the trees by the waters exalt themselves for their height, neither shoot up their top among the thick boughs, neither their trees stand up in their height, all that drink water: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit.
15
Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day when he went down to the grave I caused a mourning: I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the floods thereof, and the great waters were stayed: and I caused Lebanon to mourn for him, and all the trees of the field fainted for him.
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I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
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isiah
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Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
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Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
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All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
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Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
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For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
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I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
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Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
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They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
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That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
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All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
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But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
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Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
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Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
Revelation
God is Love
Love a friend in God
A
I will go to Heaven.
Luke 23:43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."
John 14:1 "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.
John 14:2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.
Rev 11:9 Those from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their dead bodies for three and a half days, and will not permit their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb.
Rev 11:10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and celebrate; and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.
Rev 11:11 But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." Then they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them.
1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1 Thess 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
Luke 23:43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."
John 14:1 "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.
John 14:2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.
Rev 11:9 Those from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their dead bodies for three and a half days, and will not permit their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb.
Rev 11:10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and celebrate; and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.
Rev 11:11 But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." Then they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them.
1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1 Thess 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
(20) But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, (21) who by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies, so that they wll be like his glorious body. -- Philippians 3:20-21
(1) Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. (2) Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling...(5) Now it is Gos who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. (6) Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. (7) We live by faith, not by sight. (8) We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. (9) So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it... --2 Corinthians 5:1-10
"(12) Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven..." --Matthew 5:12
"(19) Do not store up for yourselves treasure on earth, where moth and rust destroy, where thieves break in and steal. (20) But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal." ---Matthew 6:19-20
"(20) However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven." --Luke 10:20
God created us so that he could have companionship. He chose to put us on Earth now so that by our own free will we would choose to serve him. What pleasure would someone get if you knew that the only reason why people loved you is because that is what they were programmed to. It is much deeper love when someone consciously chooses to love you. The same goes for God. If he created us in heaven, everything would be perfect and we would automatically love him but by creating man on earth, he gave us free will so that we would choose to love and follow him. And eventually we will be reunited with our true home with God in heaven.
"(29) If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown in hell." ---Matthew 5:29
God does not want us to go to hell but since he gave us free will, we do have the choice. If we choose to not follow God and choose to sin then we will go to hell. It is that simple.
(1) Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. (2) Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling...(5) Now it is Gos who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. (6) Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. (7) We live by faith, not by sight. (8) We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. (9) So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it... --2 Corinthians 5:1-10
"(12) Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven..." --Matthew 5:12
"(19) Do not store up for yourselves treasure on earth, where moth and rust destroy, where thieves break in and steal. (20) But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal." ---Matthew 6:19-20
"(20) However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven." --Luke 10:20
God created us so that he could have companionship. He chose to put us on Earth now so that by our own free will we would choose to serve him. What pleasure would someone get if you knew that the only reason why people loved you is because that is what they were programmed to. It is much deeper love when someone consciously chooses to love you. The same goes for God. If he created us in heaven, everything would be perfect and we would automatically love him but by creating man on earth, he gave us free will so that we would choose to love and follow him. And eventually we will be reunited with our true home with God in heaven.
"(29) If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown in hell." ---Matthew 5:29
God does not want us to go to hell but since he gave us free will, we do have the choice. If we choose to not follow God and choose to sin then we will go to hell. It is that simple.
S
For one to state that a person goes directly to Heaven or directly to Hell upon death is essentially denying the Bodily Resurrection.
There is an intermediate state of the date awaiting the end of time, the resurrection, and the judgment.
At death our bodies are typically buried, but the soul goes to Hades. As seen in Luke 16 Hades has two compartments separated by a gulf/chasm. One section for the righteous dead is called Abraham's Bosom and Paradise. The other for the wicked dead is called Torment (tartarus).
Hades is the unseen realm of departed spirits. Tartarus is that portion for the wicked. And Gehenna is eternal hell to which the wicked will be sent at judgment.
Consider the chart at this site and study the texts:
http://www.bible.ca/hades-lk-16.gif
There is an intermediate state of the date awaiting the end of time, the resurrection, and the judgment.
At death our bodies are typically buried, but the soul goes to Hades. As seen in Luke 16 Hades has two compartments separated by a gulf/chasm. One section for the righteous dead is called Abraham's Bosom and Paradise. The other for the wicked dead is called Torment (tartarus).
Hades is the unseen realm of departed spirits. Tartarus is that portion for the wicked. And Gehenna is eternal hell to which the wicked will be sent at judgment.
Consider the chart at this site and study the texts:
http://www.bible.ca/hades-lk-16.gif
Jesus said this when He was up on the cross.
Luk 23:43And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise
Rev 2:7"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God." ' once agian Kselby if there was no hell, what whould be the purpose of repentence?????
Mat 4:17From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
Phl 3:20For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel,1Jo 5:7For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.this last verse does not really apply to this thread, but i thought you could use it Kselby.
Luk 23:43And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise
Rev 2:7"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God." ' once agian Kselby if there was no hell, what whould be the purpose of repentence?????
Mat 4:17From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
Phl 3:20For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel,1Jo 5:7For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.this last verse does not really apply to this thread, but i thought you could use it Kselby.
oh yea and once again if heaven were not important and that was not the place we would be going , those who are saved anyways, why would Jesus be telling us to store up are tresures in heaven??
Mat 6:20but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.
Mat 6:20but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.
Wonder why he'd say it if not for the benefit of those there to witness. The thief on the cross, his time was over, no point in saying it if it was only for his benefit cause he only needed wait a minute and he'd know that Jesus had taken him to paradise. No this isnt being twisted this is a blessed assurance from our Lord and Savior & its too bad you are unable to receive that.
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