What is a "worship service?"

[Musicmaster]

In Eastern and Western Christianity, the fierce power and iron fist of tradition, coupled with the taught purpose for the gathering of believers, rather than it rightfully being for mutual edification and building up of each other in the faith through teaching from mature believers collectively teaching the new babes in the faith, it has become programmatic, liturgical, structured, all fueling the fire of the god of perceived "order."

Let's dig down into the Greek of all this, shall we?

Thoughts?

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Jesus said this about Himself:

Matthew 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

Many through the hears, within my hearing, have equated their "church building" as being the alleged "house of God., which in ancient Israel was ONLY understood to be the stone temple. Temples always elicit thoughts of worship. What did Jesus say about the worship that would become that which is acceptable before the Father?

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

How this became transliterated into the creation of "church" buildings as special purpose places, like a temple, where acceptable worship can be orchestrated into an acceptable form our Heavenly Father sees as what He seeks, that escapes me.

Some have argued that worship is always a "good thing." Granted, what one considers to be his worship of God can and does elicit warm fuzzies of feelings toward God, but how does God see all that? Not many people have ever stopped to ask that question within the rank and file of historic, traditional Churchianity all the way to modern, evolved Churchianity.

So, the terms in John 4:23 speak toward that which is a way of life rather than physical, outward expressions of prostration, singing, rock bands, worship leading, et al. Treating worship as a thing akin to flipping on a light switch when entering into a special purpose place versus having lived a life of worship throughout the week to that day entering into the so-called "sanctuary," all those people have completely missed the depths and meaning behind what Jesus said to the Samaritan woman at the well.

Others will point at the "rightness" of it all, but never able to point out anything in the Greek NT texts that, when translated properly, do not repurpose the gathering of believers as being for the purpose of corporate worship. That's a lie foisted upon Christendom for far too long.

Thoughts?

MM

 

[GWH]

Jesus said this about Himself:

Matthew 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

Many through the hears, within my hearing, have equated their "church building" as being the alleged "house of God., which in ancient Israel was ONLY understood to be the stone temple. Temples always elicit thoughts of worship. What did Jesus say about the worship that would become that which is acceptable before the Father?

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

How this became transliterated into the creation of "church" buildings as special purpose places, like a temple, where acceptable worship can be orchestrated into an acceptable form our Heavenly Father sees as what He seeks, that escapes me.

Some have argued that worship is always a "good thing." Granted, what one considers to be his worship of God can and does elicit warm fuzzies of feelings toward God, but how does God see all that? Not many people have ever stopped to ask that question within the rank and file of historic, traditional Churchianity all the way to modern, evolved Churchianity.

So, the terms in John 4:23 speak toward that which is a way of life rather than physical, outward expressions of prostration, singing, rock bands, worship leading, et al. Treating worship as a thing akin to flipping on a light switch when entering into a special purpose place versus having lived a life of worship throughout the week to that day entering into the so-called "sanctuary," all those people have completely missed the depths and meaning behind what Jesus said to the Samaritan woman at the well.

Others will point at the "rightness" of it all, but never able to point out anything in the Greek NT texts that, when translated properly, do not repurpose the gathering of believers as being for the purpose of corporate worship. That's a lie foisted upon Christendom for far too long.

Thoughts?

MM

A worship service is worship via service per Rom. 12:1-15:6.

 

[John146]

Modern day worship service:

1. In the dark, lights off
2. Smoke machine
3. Light show
4. Stage Performance
5. Loud music

 

[Kroogz]

In Eastern and Western Christianity, the fierce power and iron fist of tradition, coupled with the taught purpose for the gathering of believers, rather than it rightfully being for mutual edification and building up of each other in the faith through teaching from mature believers collectively teaching the new babes in the faith, it has become programmatic, liturgical, structured, all fueling the fire of the god of perceived "order."

Let's dig down into the Greek of all this, shall we?

Thoughts?

MM

The dog and pony show. The potluck. The gossip session.

One has to search long and hard for a teacher, where Doctrine is taught. Not the tradition and warm fuzzies.

 

[homwardbound]

Church in English from Greek Ecclesia is not Church
The Ecclesia is not Church
Church means Building. building is not the Called out one's, includes leaders at a building.
Ecclesia means "Called out ones" God calls as God calls and it is personal, not a building as I see in Hebrews 8:1-4 tells me so.

To make a building to go to, to get and stand in belief to God makes people dependent on people, God not in charge, not really, even though claimed to be and seriously might not be, and are not sincere, yet could be, which in truth only God knows who are and who are not, I glory in both, being content, Christ is preached (unfortunately not usually the risen Christ, where the true new life is at for me at least and all others as well, which only Father can and does reveal to whoever Father chooses, knowing the motives of each), therefore, be wise and Identify the trees, I see by the fruits, so does everyone else too. Yet many overlook what is the truth, wanting to be accepted and loved, not feeling as are. When, seeing another taking charge over them, when no one is better than anyone else per God (No respect of persons), to me at least, I now see this. When, there is no personal relationship between God and you, you might be getting deceived from the truth in the resurrected Christ. Being only focusing on the life in flesh and the death of Christ. I, see this as what is going on in so-called worshipping in buildings. Only mostly focusing on the physical life and death, overlooking the resurrected life.
When The Temple got destroyed, and not one stone left atop another, that was the end of
Buildings, Temples to worship in and be controlled by others as was before the new.
For, the new to begin in me, you and all who choose to believe God over anything and everything else, it is the people that are the Ecclesia, to be ready in season and out of season to tell others of the love permeating through them, when asked? Asking, why you are still happy in the midst of troubles, one responds, because God saved me in his risen Son, which brings new life in Father, Daddy, PaPa made new in Spirit and Truth through me for all to see to choose freely also to believe God or not freely chosen, no have to or else have to anymore under Law.
I have a personal relationship, anyone else? That love given me from God Father has set me free while still here on earth in adversities, What?????????????????????????
I do not have to go to Church, I am new from within, God did it, I belie it and now see it given me from God not self or anyone else.
1 John 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
John 3:12
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Do you now see, the truth, evil gatherings, destroyed in AD 70 for the new to begin in each person in belief to God to see new and be new in the Ecclesia given us 24/7
Evil took up the destroyed building to gather people and get them confused in truth
That began in Constantine's time line. Flesh still trying to do, what no flesh could ever do, as seen in the First (Old) Testament, man still trying by having worship services.
They had pagan Churches back then, that no one was attending. therefore, Constantine, had a meeting and told those Pagan preachers back to to say they believe God, which got them to attend the building and pay tithes. Once these said, they now believe, (even though they did not) and the people started attending, and they did.
Fast forward to the present and we have many people confused, not seeing God calls each person to a personal relationship, between God and them personally, then collectively daily 24/7 praising God from their new heart given them in the risen Son to do that (Ezekiel 36:26), Love all as in 1 Cor 13:4-7,13. At least for me, I see God's love is for us all to love all as the Prophesy of Son is done as in John 19:30 first. Then the risen life for us to be given that from Father presently and forever to never be lost again. Psalm 103:12, it is done as in John 19:30, to get given the new heart to be new and not forgotten ever byGod ever. New life in God Father's Spirit and Truth is now a gift given to all who believe without any ill intent to be given it as in James, who says, you ask and you receive not, because you ask amiss wanting to spend, what you get on your own pleasures, therefore it is a no for now until you learn truth over error to be given the truth that sets you free in love to all as is done by Son, once for us all.
Such is the building today, offering good, that in the long haul is not good for people, in my honest view thanking God for the truth to be wise to this truth and not be any longer deceived over to get what I want here presently. god always somehow, someway always provides, that I stand in trust to forever, here or there, Thanks
New life covered in the risen Christ, that Daddy gives or not yet to the next person wanting, Father knowing the motive of each and then decides who gets and who does not yet
Love to all thanks
Time to let go of self, you decide, you are the new Ecclesia Father and Son as Won working through you in his Spirit and Truth for you, only if one is willing will it be done through you as Father knows everyones motive and so gives and does not as Daddy knows best for me anyways and all others also

 

[Kroogz]

Jesus said this about Himself:

Matthew 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

Many through the hears, within my hearing, have equated their "church building" as being the alleged "house of God., which in ancient Israel was ONLY understood to be the stone temple. Temples always elicit thoughts of worship. What did Jesus say about the worship that would become that which is acceptable before the Father?

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

How this became transliterated into the creation of "church" buildings as special purpose places, like a temple, where acceptable worship can be orchestrated into an acceptable form our Heavenly Father sees as what He seeks, that escapes me.

Some have argued that worship is always a "good thing." Granted, what one considers to be his worship of God can and does elicit warm fuzzies of feelings toward God, but how does God see all that? Not many people have ever stopped to ask that question within the rank and file of historic, traditional Churchianity all the way to modern, evolved Churchianity.

So, the terms in John 4:23 speak toward that which is a way of life rather than physical, outward expressions of prostration, singing, rock bands, worship leading, et al. Treating worship as a thing akin to flipping on a light switch when entering into a special purpose place versus having lived a life of worship throughout the week to that day entering into the so-called "sanctuary," all those people have completely missed the depths and meaning behind what Jesus said to the Samaritan woman at the well.

Others will point at the "rightness" of it all, but never able to point out anything in the Greek NT texts that, when translated properly, do not repurpose the gathering of believers as being for the purpose of corporate worship. That's a lie foisted upon Christendom for far too long.

Thoughts?

MM

Good stuff. And what does this "breed?" It breeds workers for salvation. It keeps a babe in Christ a babe.

The moment after salvation 99% of us hear "faith without works" is dead. Get to WORK. Feed the poor! Sweep the floors and clean the toilets in the church! Help paint the church! Cook for our potluck! Get the Smoke machine working!......And on and on.

When every new believer should be told....STOP, sit down and learn how to live the Christian life. Learn how to be filled with the Spirit. Learn what it is to grieve or quench the Spirit. Learn how to walk in the Spirit. You know, the true fruits and works that a believer needs.

Then and only then can a believer have DIVINE good works, rather than human good works.

This is why we see many, many believers whose faith is dead. They were put to "work" straight away and it is all dead work.

 

[Musicmaster]

Todd Friel of Wretched Radio addressed a topic that's very relevant for this topic; that being "institutional drift."

Satan's infusion of himself into the institutional model as easily as unbelievers walking through the doors and sitting down to listen along with the rest of the audience, given that many of its seats and pews are warmed by the unsaved, it's only inevitable that there will be an indifference to biblical worship and to doctrinal purity. The unsaved bring with them the world and its hatred of Christ Jesus into a place that has intentionally toned down its message to make the unsaved feel at home within the institutional model. The harvest of warm fuzzies is plentiful within the institutional model, with the so-called "gathering" being nothing more than a gathering of silent watchers, only making a peep on cue and WAH-LAH, instant "fellowship," be it ever so shallow and weak.

MM

 

[presidente]

In Eastern and Western Christianity, the fierce power and iron fist of tradition, coupled with the taught purpose for the gathering of believers, rather than it rightfully being for mutual edification and building up of each other in the faith through teaching from mature believers collectively teaching the new babes in the faith, it has become programmatic, liturgical, structured, all fueling the fire of the god of perceived "order."

Let's dig down into the Greek of all this, shall we?

Thoughts?

MM

Prostration services? We might say the Eastern Orthodox do that, with incense as a part of the 'service.'

 

[homwardbound]

Todd Friel of Wretched Radio addressed a topic that's very relevant for this topic; that being "institutional drift."

Satan's infusion of himself into the institutional model as easily as unbelievers walking through the doors and sitting down to listen along with the rest of the audience, given that many of its seats and pews are warmed by the unsaved, it's only inevitable that there will be an indifference to biblical worship and to doctrinal purity. The unsaved bring with them the world and its hatred of Christ Jesus into a place that has intentionally toned down its message to make the unsaved feel at home within the institutional model. The harvest of warm fuzzies is plentiful within the institutional model, with the so-called "gathering" being nothing more than a gathering of silent watchers, only making a peep on cue and WAH-LAH, instant "fellowship," be it ever so shallow and weak.

MM

therefore, being made wise as serpents in whatever matter, church attendance here.
What do the mature believers do?
Do whoever is mature and sees this going on rebuke, extol, condemn, judge others?

Thank you, I never saw Jesus condemn anyone but the Pharisees and religious leaders. That started accusing him first. They started the fight why? No one going to their place of worship, no tithes. Everyone showing up asked for Jesus?
Jealousy of the flesh not being in charge
So how do we become wise as serpents, we all are in reality, tom our own motives. The thing I see now is READY/ okay Daddy not yet, stand down, there is a time for everything (Ecclesiastes)