What is truth?

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What do you think?

  • I believe that there is only TRUTH

    Votes: 7 50.0%
  • I believe that there is only one TRUTH, everything else are little truths.

    Votes: 3 21.4%
  • I believe there is no TRUTH, only lots and lots of little truths.

    Votes: 3 21.4%
  • ... what?

    Votes: 1 7.1%

  • Total voters
    14
  • Poll closed .
May 17, 2013
175
1
0
God does change...
Before Noah, he would have had no qualm with destroying the planet and starting over, after the Flood he promised never to do that kind of thing again.
Before Jesus, God demanded animal sacrifice, after Jesus God demanded HUMAN sacrifice (thankfully it was only one human's life) After that, God only demands the sacrifice of freedom of his subjects (but who would complain about that right? maybe William Wallace)
And what power is there in prayer? Is that not communion with God and does God not change for the needs of his people?
You're right.

That's why Jesus tells you not to pray for people or for things or for anything. Since God already knows what it is you want, Jesus tells us to cite the Lord's Prayer.

Anything else is pointless as far as 'getting what you want' goes.
 
Mar 26, 2013
139
1
0
First, please forgive me if I did not understand your question, as dislexia makes it difficult to understand what is written sometimes :)
I cannot answer your poll, or give some kind of worldly wisdom.
Because in all the years that I have tried to understand or decide what truth is?
I realised that I cannot be certain of any truth, or decide what is truth or not.
I have in faith trusted all truth to Jesus Christ is Lord come in the flesh.
For truth is not known by wisdom, or knowladge, or ones own understanding.
It is recieved by faith, recieved by looking to Jesus.
Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life.
For truth is not a comoddity, but spirit, recieved and lived in Jesus Christ is Lord come in the flesh through faith.

God bless
pickles
Even if you did not understand my question, thank you for your wisdom!
While I disagree that understanding of truth must somehow be 'downloaded' from God, I share your respect for the message.
 
Mar 26, 2013
139
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The Triune God (Father, Son, Spirit) is Truth. God's Word is Truth.
Thank you for your comment, very much to the point. I'm afraid to disagree with you though, because you seem very matter-of-fact in your understanding of truth (i mean TRUTH).
Here goes anyway: it is your belief that the Triune God is TRUTH. Can a belief change? If so, then does that mean that the TRUTH you believe in changes as well? I could argue that it doesn't, but it certainly weakens the validity of TRUTH.
 
Jan 24, 2013
944
2
0
God does change...
Before Noah, he would have had no qualm with destroying the planet and starting over, after the Flood he promised never to do that kind of thing again.
Before Jesus, God demanded animal sacrifice, after Jesus God demanded HUMAN sacrifice (thankfully it was only one human's life) After that, God only demands the sacrifice of freedom of his subjects (but who would complain about that right? maybe William Wallace)
And what power is there in prayer? Is that not communion with God and does God not change for the needs of his people?
This is not necessarily true. The true animal sacrifices were always human deaths. God which is love, truthfully finds no pleasure in death. He is a God of the living, and as I stated earlier, a living dog beats a dead lion any day.

With the death of Jesus, He put an end to animal sacrifices meaning, the separation and scattering of His people according to "sins" of men. In other words, men who may be gay are no longer excluded from God according to a law that only has power in the flesh. Jesus died to take that power over such, showing all men that He has made peace by His own death.
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
God does change...
Before Noah, he would have had no qualm with destroying the planet and starting over, after the Flood he promised never to do that kind of thing again.
Before Jesus, God demanded animal sacrifice, after Jesus God demanded HUMAN sacrifice (thankfully it was only one human's life) After that, God only demands the sacrifice of freedom of his subjects (but who would complain about that right? maybe William Wallace)
And what power is there in prayer? Is that not communion with God and does God not change for the needs of his people?
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,710
3,651
113
I think it's amazing that a fetus, still in the womb, can experience dreams... what can a fetus possibly dream about? (This happens around 7 months) Mathematicians believe in chaos, and that perhaps the growth and development of the brain triggers thoughts in a sort random way. Perhaps the fetus dreams of warmth, perhaps of sound, perhaps of static white noise? Nobody knows.
That's because God is a giver of dreams and the 'fetus' as you call it has a spirit in him/her unlike a blob of tissue invading a woman's body.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,710
3,651
113
You contradict yourself rather plainly here... How can you know something that is unchanging when in 10 years you will change your position on it?

Because one's understanding of an objective fact changes does not necessarily mean that the fact changed.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,710
3,651
113
Some people will talk about two different kinds of truth, there's the uppercase TRUTH and the lowercase truth. Many believers like to think this way because it backs up the notion that God is TRUTH. Lowercase truths then are regarded as important pieces in everyday life, like 'My favorite color is blue', or 'I had cereal for breakfast'. There's plenty more to be said about this because there are many applications of uppercase TRUTH than religion (e.g. science principals, mathematics, philosophy).

I, however, don't like the notion of an uppercase TRUTH for this reason alone: we don't know the TRUTH. Instead of one universal TRUTH which is and was and shall be forever, I feel that there is rather an accumulation of lowercase truths which may appear as TRUTH, but things can change. For example, people used to believe that it was wrong to do any sort of work on the Sabbath and that was TRUTH, but as it turned out many people began to see how ridiculous things got (even Jesus worked on the Sabbath). The notion of working on the Sabbath as TRUTH turned out to be a large percentage of the population believing in a lowercase truth that looked like an uppercase TRUTH, simply because it was popular at the time...

As far as faith, religion and belief goes, I feel that no matter what, people change and so does opinion. That a conglomeration of lowercase truths together turn into a common perception of TRUTH over time. That there really isn't REALLY an uppercase TRUTH, but instead a very large conglomeration of lowercase truths that just APPEAR as uppercase TRUTH.

One more analogy... If existence was a tapestry, calling one thread TRUTH would be illogical, one thread is indeed a truth, but apart from the other threads it's meaning becomes less important. Together, all the threads look like a TRUTH, but what you're seeing is actually a whole lot of individual threads, individual truths.

The Human experience, and all religions of the world, are like that tapestry...

Thoughts?
I find the basis for what you deem as true rather questionable and/or shaky ground. In both the 2nd and 3rd paragraph you state ''I feel'' and all that after stating ''we don't know the TRUTH''.
So are we supposed to look to our feelings as the source of Truth? They can change quicker than a summer storm in Colorado.
 
May 23, 2013
82
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Truth is Jesus Christ and His Word. Nothing less.
 
Mar 26, 2013
139
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I find the basis for what you deem as true rather questionable and/or shaky ground. In both the 2nd and 3rd paragraph you state ''I feel'' and all that after stating ''we don't know the TRUTH''.
So are we supposed to look to our feelings as the source of Truth? They can change quicker than a summer storm in Colorado.
In a sense, yes, use your own judgement to rationalize the truths you discover. Rather, have an opinion and feel free to share it. I do certainly FEEL, and that is because I am a sentient and emotional being...
You might claim that you know, without a shadow of doubt, that something is TRUTH... that is, an absolute, unchanging certainty of fact. I would ask you what you feel TRUTH is?
After asking this question, reading the responses, and doing further study into the topic I've changed my opinion... Absolute Truth is rare, but does exist... for example: we exist in a world that is real in a universe that is very dynamic, wonderful and mysterious... but even that TRUTH nobody fully yet understands. Instead of knowing the absolute TRUTH, we discover together many many smaller (but still important) truths about this universe we live in. I don't believe it will ever be possible to KNOW everything, that is have TRUTH in our pocket, but we are steadily learning more and more, and that is very exciting.
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,710
3,651
113
In a sense, yes, use your own judgement to rationalize the truths you discover. Rather, have an opinion and feel free to share it. I do certainly FEEL, and that is because I am a sentient and emotional being...
You might claim that you know, without a shadow of doubt, that something is TRUTH... that is, an absolute, unchanging certainty of fact. I would ask you what you feel TRUTH is?
After asking this question, reading the responses, and doing further study into the topic I've changed my opinion... Absolute Truth is rare, but does exist... for example: we exist in a world that is real in a universe that is very dynamic, wonderful and mysterious... but even that TRUTH nobody fully yet understands. Instead of knowing the absolute TRUTH, we discover together many many smaller (but still important) truths about this universe we live in. I don't believe it will ever be possible to KNOW everything, that is have TRUTH in our pocket, but we are steadily learning more and more, and that is very exciting.
Is it fair to say then, 'that we know that there is an absolute TRUTH but we don't know it absolutely'?
 
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
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Some people will talk about two different kinds of truth, there's the uppercase TRUTH and the lowercase truth. Many believers like to think this way because it backs up the notion that God is TRUTH. Lowercase truths then are regarded as important pieces in everyday life, like 'My favorite color is blue', or 'I had cereal for breakfast'. There's plenty more to be said about this because there are many applications of uppercase TRUTH than religion (e.g. science principals, mathematics, philosophy).

I, however, don't like the notion of an uppercase TRUTH for this reason alone: we don't know the TRUTH. Instead of one universal TRUTH which is and was and shall be forever, I feel that there is rather an accumulation of lowercase truths which may appear as TRUTH, but things can change. For example, people used to believe that it was wrong to do any sort of work on the Sabbath and that was TRUTH, but as it turned out many people began to see how ridiculous things got (even Jesus worked on the Sabbath). The notion of working on the Sabbath as TRUTH turned out to be a large percentage of the population believing in a lowercase truth that looked like an uppercase TRUTH, simply because it was popular at the time...

As far as faith, religion and belief goes, I feel that no matter what, people change and so does opinion. That a conglomeration of lowercase truths together turn into a common perception of TRUTH over time. That there really isn't REALLY an uppercase TRUTH, but instead a very large conglomeration of lowercase truths that just APPEAR as uppercase TRUTH.

One more analogy... If existence was a tapestry, calling one thread TRUTH would be illogical, one thread is indeed a truth, but apart from the other threads it's meaning becomes less important. Together, all the threads look like a TRUTH, but what you're seeing is actually a whole lot of individual threads, individual truths.

The Human experience, and all religions of the world, are like that tapestry...

Thoughts?


A simple word study of 'The Truth' in the NT shows that it always refers to Jesus as the subject.

The Holy Bible also defines 'faith' as 'acting upon established truth'....with Jesus being the originator and perfector of our faith.

Thus, as orthodox Christians, we can have complete and utter confidence in Jesus Christ, as The Truth of our faith.
 
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May 17, 2013
175
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A simple word study of 'The Truth' in the NT shows that it always refers to Jesus as the subject.

The Holy Bible also defines 'faith' as 'acting upon established truth'....with Jesus being the originator and perfector of our faith.

Thus, as orthodox Christians, we can have complete and utter confidence in Jesus Christ, as The Truth of our faith.

Faith comes from the word 'pistis', meaning 'be persuaded'. Often used in the context of one's trust in something.

Faith, in my eyes, has nothing to do with action. Rather to do with the state of being persuaded of (and subsequently trusting) in God. And to trust in God I must first understand God properly, via his character.

'Knowing the heart of God', if you will.

And in some instances it can be to do with someone's reliability or loyalty, for instance when Jesus says 'whoever relies on/trusts in/is loyal to (pistis) me, although he may perish, he shall be alive'.


Interestingly, in modern greek, pisti means exactly that; being persuaded.

It would suggest that trusting in God's character and his instruction of love (or coming to persuasion of it) is faith itself. I try not to use the word 'faith', because it's a word that often has a non-definition. People say 'faith is belief', and what is belief? well, 'belief is faith'. That's not really a definition.

I instead try to use the term 'loyalty to God', or 'trust in God' or 'being persuaded of God' or 'relying on God's instruction' or something like that. In fact I don't think I've ever used the word 'faith' directly to someone unless I'm explaining the meaning of it.

To me, faith is just simply having trust in God and God's way.

Then again, that's my truth.
 
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ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
I heartily disagree with your OPINION on homosexuality. There is no TRUTH governing sexuality. It is your opinion, a lowercase truth, that homosexuality is an abomination.
But your thoughts on death are interesting... then as far as TRUTH goes, the TRUTH is that death is the only universal constant. Since it's NOT evident what happens to anyone after their death (all we have is conjecture), you're free to provide your OPINION of what truth lies after the grave. Many may agree with you, but not knowing TRUTH (because you can't until you're there) means all you're doing is sharing a commonly held belief in opinion.
There is a Truth that governs sexuality, and that shows when it is sin and when it is not sin. It is called the Holy Bible:

21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. - Leviticus 18:21-23 (King James Bible

And if Christians read and believe their Bible, then they do know what truth is that is beyond the grace. It is two destinations, either Heaven or Hell.

When a Christian dies, he or she is absent from the body, and present with the Lord:


6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. - 2 Corinthians 5:6-10 (King James Bible)


But Hell awaits every person that dies without accepting the Lord Jesus Christ:


43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. - Mark 9:43-48 (King James Bible)



19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. - Luke 16:19-31 (King James Bible)


What your problem is Jmlidea, is you do not have a Final Authority.

You have not submitted yourself to the Perfect Written Final Authority of the word of God.


 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Some people will talk about two different kinds of truth, there's the uppercase TRUh a
nd the lowercase truth. Many believers like to think this way because it backs up the notion that God is TRUTH. Lowercase truths then are regarded as important pieces in everyday life, like 'My favorite color is blue', or 'I had cereal for breakfast'. There's plenty more to be said about this because there are many applications of uppercase TRUTH than religion (e.g. science principals, mathematics, philosophy).

I, however, don't like the notion of an uppercase TRUTH for this reason alone: we don't know the TRUTH. Instead of one universal TRUTH which is and was and shall be forever, I feel that there is rather an accumulation of lowercase truths which may appear as TRUTH, but things can change. For example, people used to believe that it was wrong to do any sort of work on the Sabbath and that was TRUTH, but as it turned out many people began to see how ridiculous things got (even Jesus worked on the Sabbath). The notion of working on the Sabbath as TRUTH turned out to be a large percentage of the population believing in a lowercase truth that looked like an uppercase TRUTH, simply because it was popular at the time...

As far as faith, religion and belief goes, I feel that no matter what, people change and so does opinion. That a conglomeration of lowercase truths together turn into a common perception of TRUTH over time. That there really isn't REALLY an uppercase TRUTH, but instead a very large conglomeration of lowercase truths that just APPEAR as uppercase TRUTH.

One more analogy... If existence was a tapestry, calling one thread TRUTH would be illogical, one thread is indeed a truth, but apart from the other threads it's meaning becomes less important. Together, all the threads look like a TRUTH, but what you're seeing is actually a whole lot of individual threads, individual truths.

The Human experience, and all religions of the world, are like that tapestry...

Thoughts?
U sound like a person who preachs many ways to your madeup god and lies masurauding as u call them little truth!



God is truth. His laws are truth. He does not change. The world, its opinions, its beliefs may change, but god
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
God and his love are constant and eternal. All else will fade..knowledge,etc.
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
I find the basis for what you deem as true rather questionable and/or shaky ground. In both the 2nd and 3rd paragraph you state ''I feel'' and all that after stating ''we don't know the TRUTH''.
So are we supposed to look to our feelings as the source of Truth? They can change quicker than a summer storm in Colorado.
aint that the truth...
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
In a sense, yes, use your own judgement to rationalize the truths you discover. Rather, have an opinion and feel free to share it. I do certainly FEEL, and that is because I am a sentient and emotional being...
You might claim that you know, without a shadow of doubt, that something is TRUTH... that is, an absolute, unchanging certainty of fact. I would ask you what you feel TRUTH is?
After asking this question, reading the responses, and doing further study into the topic I've changed my opinion... Absolute Truth is rare, but does exist... for example: we exist in a world that is real in a universe that is very dynamic, wonderful and mysterious... but even that TRUTH nobody fully yet understands. Instead of knowing the absolute TRUTH, we discover together many many smaller (but still important) truths about this universe we live in. I don't believe it will ever be possible to KNOW everything, that is have TRUTH in our pocket, but we are steadily learning more and more, and that is very exciting.
and that is why we should look to Scripture, for we are as babes spiritually.....

1Co 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
 

pickles

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
Even if you did not understand my question, thank you for your wisdom!
While I disagree that understanding of truth must somehow be 'downloaded' from God, I share your respect for the message.
I hope in some way you might understand this. :)
Its never about being downloaded. :)
But it is, no longer living and understanding in flesh or world, even though one is still presant in such.
It is all about living in spirit, Jesus's spirit, and by and in this, having all truth presant in one.
Like breathing air, or better said, :) having life giving water always presant in one's soul.
I am awed and humbled with the truth that is now alive and presant always in my heart.
For it is not like something one as you said downloaded, but that which is presant always, known, yet not needed to be stored.
For this truth is alive, and living in ones heart, soul.
And always, always, perfect is the love of Jesus. :)
I hope you know this truth, or will soon. :)
For such is trully the delight and joy of ones life eternally given, and always God's glory!
I hope you will soon see, that the truth of God, Jesus, reqires no proof, it simply is!

Sometimes we spend so much time trying to reason, understand and show knowladge to gain what we think is truth, or any knowladge, that we lose sight, become imeshed in the depths of confusion and mire.
When all we hope to seek and understand, is simply attained by faith! :)

God bless
pickles
 
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
Faith comes from the word 'pistis', meaning 'be persuaded'. Often used in the context of one's trust in something.

Faith, in my eyes, has nothing to do with action. Rather to do with the state of being persuaded of (and subsequently trusting) in God. And to trust in God I must first understand God properly, via his character.

'Knowing the heart of God', if you will.

And in some instances it can be to do with someone's reliability or loyalty, for instance when Jesus says 'whoever relies on/trusts in/is loyal to (pistis) me, although he may perish, he shall be alive'.


Interestingly, in modern greek, pisti means exactly that; being persuaded.

It would suggest that trusting in God's character and his instruction of love (or coming to persuasion of it) is faith itself. I try not to use the word 'faith', because it's a word that often has a non-definition. People say 'faith is belief', and what is belief? well, 'belief is faith'. That's not really a definition.

I instead try to use the term 'loyalty to God', or 'trust in God' or 'being persuaded of God' or 'relying on God's instruction' or something like that. In fact I don't think I've ever used the word 'faith' directly to someone unless I'm explaining the meaning of it.

To me, faith is just simply having trust in God and God's way.

Then again, that's my truth.

There are numerous Biblical terms defined as 'faith'.

Each term conveys the usage with complete certainty.

Hebrews 11 defines faith as complete and utter certainty in what we believe as Truth, and then informs us that Jesus Christ is the originator and perfecter of our faith.

Amazingly, numerous OT examples of faith are provided in Hebrews 11, of which, when studied in the Hebrew language, clearly indicate the Triune God....The Trinity....with the Son being present as Malek Yahweh.

The Trinity originated in the OT and carries over into the NT.

Clearly, Biblical Faith is based upon the firm foundation of the Trinity.