What You Believe About Homosexuality Doesn't Matter

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Nov 20, 2003
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#1
This guy nailed it exactly.




Copy and Pasted: Today, there are 2 news stories that have been circulating all over my Facebook and Twitter news feeds. One you are probably aware of, the other maybe not. The two, though, are closely related. The first news story is the indefinite suspension of Duck Dynasty starPhil Robertson due to the comments he made during an interview with GQ magazine. The second news story is about the “defrocking” of Pennsylvania UMC pastor Frank Schaefer after he performed the marriage for his gay son and subsequent refusal to submit to church law regarding this action. The link between these two stories is clear. The church’s views (or, in the case of Duck Dynasty, a certain understanding of the Christian faith’s views) regarding homosexuality.The reaction to both of these stories has been…emphatic, to say the least. The debate over the “rightness or wrongness” of homosexuality has once again been fired up. The appeals to the Biblical passages have been made. The academic rebuttals to the interpretation of those passages has no doubt been referenced. The calls for freedom and tolerance (from both sides) have been shouted…or at least typed out with great gusto. The theological debate (and I am using that term VERY generously here) has been raging all day long, and no doubt will continue to rage in the weeks to come.
But I refuse to engage in it. The way I see it, the time for that debate has long since passed. The stakes are too high now. The current research suggestions that teenagers that are gay are about 3 times more likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual peers. That puts the percentage of gay teens attempting suicide at about 30-some percent. 1 out of 3 teens who are gay or bisexual will try to kill themselves. And a lot of times they succeed. In fact, Rev. Schaefer’s son contemplated suicide on a number of occasions in his teens.
The fact of the matter is, it doesn’t matter whether or not you think homosexuality is a sin. Let me say that again. It does not matter if you think homosexuality is a sin, or if you think it is simply another expression of human love. It doesn’t matter. Why doesn’t it matter? Because people are dying. Kids are literally killing themselves because they are so tired of being rejected and dehumanized that they feel their only option left is to end their life. As a Youth Pastor, this makes me physically ill. And as a human, it should make you feel the same way. So, I’m through with the debate.
When faced with the choice between being theologically correct…as if this is even possible…and being morally responsible, I’ll go with morally responsible every time. Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a German pastor and theologian during World War II. He firmly held the theological position of nonviolence. He believed that complete pacifism was theologically correct. And yet, in the midst of the war, he conspired to assassinate Adolf Hitler; to kill a fellow man. Why? Because in light of what he saw happening to the Jews around him by the Nazis, he felt that it would be morally irresponsible not to. Between the assassination of Hitler and nonviolence, he felt the greater sin would be nonviolence.
We are past the time for debate. We no longer have the luxury to consider the original meaning of Paul’s letter to the Corinthian church. We are now faced with the reality that there are lives at stake. So whatever you believe about homosexuality, keep it to yourself. Instead, try telling a gay kid that you love him and you don’t want him to die. Try inviting her into your church and into your home and into your life. Anything other than that simply doesn't matter.



Original article here: What You Believe About Homosexuality Doesn’t Matter | In The Parlor
 
N

Nuns_n_roses

Guest
#2
On a Christian site, this is a brave thing to say- and I agree wholeheartedly. Would a true Christian bully an LGBT person until they thought suicide was the only way out? Would be label a man a drunkard because he struggles with drink and scorn him? Insult a woman offering pleasure or give her the means to get out of it if we're able?

It does no good to acknowledge beliefs if they show no compassion, and I feel this is a subject often not understood by the Christian commnity. The church is for all, and so is Christianity. The struggles these teens face can have devastating effects, and that should be more offensive than anything.

God bless youth pastors with your compassion and wisdom.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#3
What I do agree with is "what we believe about homosexuality doesn't matter." Now, WHAT GOD BELIEVES about homosexuality certainly does matter, and we can learn what He believes by reading His Written Word.

I'm not buying into all this "Christian bullying" thing. Sounds more like a cop-out than anything else........sorry........don't buy it. Especially in the Robertson v. GLAAD dust up. Seems to me any reasonable person would conclude that IF bullying happened, it would be GLAAD that was guilty, not Robertson.

Someone else came on here a few days ago and made a claim that "many teenagers had committed suicide" because they were "bullied" by Christian kids...........I asked for the research data to support this claim, as yet ---- none has been given.

And the assertion made in this article leaves MUCH to be desired. So, basically, IF PEOPLE ARE DISTURBED to find out that they are living a "sin filled" life, against the Word of God............and they only see suicide as an escape............WE SHOULD NOT PREACH/TEACH THE WORD OF GOD?

Seriously?

Show me the "violence" being committed against teenage homosexuals here in America..........Need actual scientific data.

IF this Youth Pastor is concerned, he should EMBRACE the Word of God.
 
Nov 20, 2003
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I'm not buying into all this "Christian bullying" thing. Sounds more like a cop-out than anything else........sorry........don't buy it. Especially in the Robertson v. GLAAD dust up. Seems to me any reasonable person would conclude that IF bullying happened, it would be GLAAD that was guilty, not Robertson.
As far as the Christian bullying thing goes, it does happen. I was a youth pastor for four years and I had kids who were having same sex attraction who had gotten verbally harassed and even assaulted by other teens. Some of them were the kids from the youth group who should have been the example of Christ to them.

There is plenty of data to show that kids who struggle with homosexuality are more likely to kill themselves. Just in my youth group we had six suicide attempts over the issue and I know many other surrounding youth groups have also had it be an issue. If you want some sources (as well as they can be on the internet anyways) check these out: http://www.sprc.org/sites/sprc.org/files/library/SPRC_LGBT_Youth.pdf LifeSiteNews Mobile | Study: gay teens five times more likely to attempt suicide


GLAAD is indeed retarded. No matter what side of the fence anyone is on with this business with Robertson he has his right to free speech and it should be honored. Disagreeing respectfully isn't hard. If someone thinks they are gay we as Christians need to love them regardless. We can love the sinner and hate the sin. Gay people in turn need to realize that some may disagree with them but that doesn't mean we want to cause issues. People need to stop crying discrimination and realize it goes both ways.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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As far as the Christian bullying thing goes, it does happen. I was a youth pastor for four years and I had kids who were having same sex attraction who had gotten verbally harassed and even assaulted by other teens. Some of them were the kids from the youth group who should have been the example of Christ to them.

There is plenty of data to show that kids who struggle with homosexuality are more likely to kill themselves. Just in my youth group we had six suicide attempts over the issue and I know many other surrounding youth groups have also had it be an issue. If you want some sources (as well as they can be on the internet anyways) check these out: http://www.sprc.org/sites/sprc.org/files/library/SPRC_LGBT_Youth.pdf LifeSiteNews Mobile | Study: gay teens five times more likely to attempt suicide


GLAAD is indeed retarded. No matter what side of the fence anyone is on with this business with Robertson he has his right to free speech and it should be honored. Disagreeing respectfully isn't hard. If someone thinks they are gay we as Christians need to love them regardless. We can love the sinner and hate the sin. Gay people in turn need to realize that some may disagree with them but that doesn't mean we want to cause issues. People need to stop crying discrimination and realize it goes both ways.
I never said it "didn't occur" simply that I want specific data showing that "MANY" Christian kids "bully MANY young kids" into committing suicide. Point to make is that just because a kid is going to church, in Sunday School, whatever, DOES NOT make that kid a Christian. These (who did the bullying) should have been immediately removed from the SS Classroom, the Senior Pastor informed, and proper action taken to assure it never happened again. Most youth go to church because their parents require them to, not because they are Christians. Point.....again, the data you are providing does not prove that those who attempted/committed suicide did so DIRECTLY BECUSE they were bullied by Christians.

Not for nothing, but Christians are the MOST TOLLERANT group there is when discussing Faith based or religious groups. I know and agree we are to "hate the sin, and love the sinner," after all that is what God does............so should we. This does not excuse people from demonizing Christians who speak/preach the Word of God however.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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Suicide is sinful. Any immoral sex is sinful. Taking over what is only for God to do of judging others is sinful. Bullying is sinful. I don't think there is any amount of reasoning that can justify being afraid to say these things are wrong.

If most people in the world stood firm on recognizing sin and working towards Godly living, so many children in our world wouldn't be led toward evil in the first place, and more of such behavior on our part is not going to make it better for our children. Only standing firm for wholesome Godly living is going to help our children.
 

JimJimmers

Senior Member
Apr 26, 2012
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I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth.
 

mystdancer50

Senior Member
Feb 26, 2012
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I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth.
We forget this, I think. So many churches are like the church who proudly embraced sexual sin under sloppy grace and love. Yet, we are not called to embrace sin. Never. We are called to love, yes, but we never consider how the Bible speaks about correction. It speaks about how we appreciate the correction of our earthly fathers and how much more we should love the correction that comes from our Heavenly Father. Yet, in many churches, correction is a bad word. Embrace, enfold, and allow are the words they use. It matters not what you do or claim to be, we accept you as you are and don't require you to change.

Jesus accepts us as we are, and requires us to change, to be holy as He is holy. We get caught up in excusing sin, rather than confronting it. No wonder the word Christian leaves a bad taste in the mouths of others. When we taste and look and smell and sound just like the world, what worth is there to surrender to Christ? The world says, "Hey. You live like us and act like us and sometimes are worse than us in hypocrisy, the only difference I see is that we have our Sundays free."