Where are the Shepherds today?

[JS]

Jeremiah 23

The Coming Messiah: the Righteous Branch

1 “Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of My pasture!” declares the LORD. 2 Therefore thus says the LORD God of Israel concerning the shepherds who are [a]tending My people: “You have scattered My flock and driven them away, and have not attended to them; behold, I am about to attend to you for the evil of your deeds,” declares the LORD. 3 “Then I Myself will gather the remnant of My flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and bring them back to their pasture, and they will be fruitful and multiply. 4 I will also raise up shepherds over them and they will [b]tend them; and they will not be afraid any longer, nor be terrified, nor will any be missing,” declares the LORD.

5 “Behold, the days are coming,” declares the LORD,
“When I will raise up for David a righteous [c]Branch;
And He will reign as king and [d]act wisely
And do justice and righteousness in the land.
6 “In His days Judah will be saved,
And Israel will dwell securely;
And this is His name by which He will be called,
‘The LORD our righteousness.’

7 “Therefore behold, the days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when they will no longer say, ‘As the LORD lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of Egypt,’ 8 but, ‘As the LORD lives, who brought up and led back the descendants of the household of Israel from the north land and from all the countries where I had driven them.’ Then they will live on their own soil.”

False Prophets Denounced

9 As for the prophets:
My heart is broken within me,
All my bones tremble;
I have become like a drunken man,
Even like a man overcome with wine,
Because of the LORD
And because of His holy words.
10 For the land is full of adulterers;
For the land mourns because of the curse.
The pastures of the wilderness have dried up.
Their course also is evil
And their might is not right.
11 “For both prophet and priest are polluted;
Even in My house I have found their wickedness,” declares the LORD.
12 “Therefore their way will be like slippery paths to them,
They will be driven away into the gloom and fall down in it;
For I will bring calamity upon them,
The year of their punishment,” declares the LORD.

13 “Moreover, among the prophets of Samaria I saw an offensive thing:
They prophesied by Baal and led My people Israel astray.
14 “Also among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing:
The committing of adultery and walking in falsehood;
And they strengthen the hands of evildoers,
So that no one has turned back from his wickedness.
All of them have become to Me like Sodom,
And her inhabitants like Gomorrah.

15 “Therefore thus says the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets,

‘Behold, I am going to feed them wormwood
And make them drink poisonous water,
For from the prophets of Jerusalem
Pollution has gone forth into all the land.’”

16 Thus says the LORD of hosts,
“Do not listen to the words of the prophets who are prophesying to you.
They are leading you into futility;
They speak a vision of their own [e]imagination,
Not from the mouth of the LORD.
17 “They keep saying to those who despise Me,
‘The LORD has said, “You will have peace”’;
And as for everyone who walks in the stubbornness of his own heart,
They say, ‘Calamity will not come upon you.’
18 “But who has stood in the council of the LORD,
That he should see and hear His word?
Who has given heed to [f]His word and listened?
19 “Behold, the storm of the LORD has gone forth in wrath,
Even a whirling tempest;
It will swirl down on the head of the wicked.
20 “The anger of the LORD will not turn back
Until He has performed and carried out the purposes of His heart;
In the last days you will clearly understand it.
21 “I did not send these prophets,
But they ran.
I did not speak to them,
But they prophesied.
22 “But if they had stood in My council,
Then they would have announced My words to My people,
And would have turned them back from their evil way
And from the evil of their deeds.
23 “Am I a God who is near,” declares the LORD,
“And not a God far off?

24 “Can a man hide himself in hiding places
So I do not see him?” declares the LORD.
“Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?” declares the LORD.

25 “I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy falsely in My name, saying, ‘I had a dream, I had a dream!’ 26 How long? Is there anything in the hearts of the prophets who prophesy falsehood, even these prophets of the deception of their own heart, 27 who intend to make My people forget My name by their dreams which they relate to one another, just as their fathers forgot My name because of Baal? 28 The prophet who has a dream may relate his dream, but let him who has My word speak My word in truth. What does straw have in common with grain?” declares the LORD. 29 “Is not My word like fire?” declares the LORD, “and like a hammer which shatters a rock? 30 Therefore behold, I am against the prophets,” declares the LORD, “who steal My words from each other. 31 Behold, I am against the prophets,” declares the LORD, “who use their tongues and declare, ‘The Lord declares.’ 32 Behold, I am against those who have prophesied false dreams,” declares the LORD, “and related them and led My people astray by their falsehoods and reckless boasting; yet I did not send them or command them, nor do they furnish this people the slightest benefit,” declares the LORD.

33 “Now when this people or the prophet or a priest asks you saying, ‘What is the [g]oracle of the LORD?’ then you shall say to them, ‘What [h]oracle?’ The LORD declares, ‘I will abandon you.’ 34 Then as for the prophet or the priest or the people who say, ‘The oracle of the LORD,’ I will bring punishment upon that man and his household. 35 Thus will each of you say to his neighbor and to his brother, ‘What has the LORD answered?’ or, ‘What has the LORD spoken?’ 36 For you will no longer remember the oracle of the LORD, because every man’s own word will become the oracle, and you have perverted the words of the living God, the LORD of hosts, our God. 37 Thus you will say to that prophet, ‘What has the LORD answered you?’ and, ‘What has the LORD spoken?’ 38 For if you say, ‘The oracle of the LORD!’ surely thus says the LORD, ‘Because you said this word, “The oracle of the LORD!” I have also sent to you, saying, “You shall not say, ‘The oracle of the LORD!’”’ 39 Therefore behold, I will surely forget you and cast you away from My presence, along with the city which I gave you and your fathers. 40 I will put an everlasting reproach on you and an everlasting humiliation which will not be forgotten.”

Footnotes:

1. Jeremiah 23:2 Lit shepherding
2. Jeremiah 23:4 Or shepherd
3. Jeremiah 23:5 Lit Sprout
4. Jeremiah 23:5 Or succeed
5. Jeremiah 23:16 Lit heart
6. Jeremiah 23:18 Another reading is My
7. Jeremiah 23:33 Or burden, and so throughout the ch
8. Jeremiah 23:33 Or burden, and so throughout the ch

 

[lexy15]

there going to post after me

 

[Strong1]

excellent topic, but man, why sooooooo long?
Seriously, you could have made it short, sweet and spicy, and still got your point accross.

 

[jonathanbchristian]

The shepards today are good for the most part. There are still wolves among the sheep even with good shepards. There are wolves on this site who came to spy out our liberty and try to make us zealous for their cause and not the cause of Christ. You will see them preach their bondage of works salvation. Beware that you do not believe them. Being saved by grace and faith are we now going to revert to works for our salvation? Heaven forbid.

 

[CanadaNZ]

Shepherds are the Pastors, Elders, leaders of the church. I can't say most are good, not when we have "shepherds" putting aside to ressurection so that they can have prayer meetings with muslims, teaching false doctrine, etc.

Of course the first passage you posted is a Messianic and is talking more about the Pharisees and Sadducees, but there are many today doing the same destructive scattering, but this is not a new thing, "shepherds have been doing this through the centuries.

 

[Skinski7]

Jeremiah 23 Today.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPuhbm74JRU[/video]

 

[Red33]

Jeremiah 23 Today.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPuhbm74JRU[/video]

From one man to another, you and I are very sick men, with a sick heart and a whole head that is sick. There is no soundness in our sick head and our whole heart is faint. It is covered with wounds and bruises and putrefying soars. We went astray as soon as we were born, because the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked and who can really know it. It is so wicked that God has told us not to follow it and to keep and guard our heart so that what is in the heart does not come out and defile us.

Besides you and I, there is none on this planet born among men that is righteous, none that doeth good, none that understandeth and none that seeketh after God, NO NOT ONE ! They all go astray and have gone backward from birth speaking lies, conceived in sin and shapened in iniquity. All there righteousness is filthy rags and their best state is all vanity. They are all dead in their trespasses and sins with all kinds of dead and lifeless works through the fruit of death. They are all blinded by the god of this world and live under the power and control of the evil that is in this world system of iniquity.

That is you and me and every man and woman that has ever lived, OTHER THAN JESUS CHRIST, the spotless Lamb of God, who became sin but knew no sin and was made in the likeness of sinful flesh but without a sin nature. He was tempted in all points as we are in our humanity but without sin, yet He condemned sin in His flesh that had no sin nature. He never had a single thought or imagination in His mind or in His heart that was contrary to the Father.

He did always those things that pleased the Father because He had no sin and was perfect in every single thing that He thought and did before the Father and before man. His anger was perfect righteous indignation and He applied it perfectly in every situation and toward those he directed it. Jesus never failed in anything and was perfect in all His ways. There was nothing about Him that the Father was not well-pleased. He is our righteousness, our Redeemer, our Saviour, our friend, our brother, our high priest and our Lamb. He is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON and we have been born of Him and in Him for all eternity as a new creature with old things passed away and all things new.

You want the scriptures on all that, I have them all and they are all in your Bible and they are plenty.

 

[Tommy4Christ]

Most in the pulpits today are just hirelings, preaching you get saved IN your sins, you were born a sinner, and Jesus is your remedy! NO real repentance, just confess and trust In what Jesus did on the cross to cover you IN your sins, sin isnt the issue just unbelief!


Original sin, Substitution, OSAS, faith alone, total depravity, etc... are all invented concepts not in the Bible, and you actually need to do something, such as obey God,(from your heart) crucify your flesh in repentance, and remain in the vine to stay saved!


You call it works and legalism, I call in heart purity, obedience, and a working faith in love, not works of the law but of the spirit!​

Woe Unto You, Pastors 1​

“Shutting up the Kingdom of Heaven against men!” Matt23:13​

There isn’t a Pastor alive today anywhere who would say anything that may upset the people in the Churches or make them feel uncomfortable or Convicted of any wrong doing. The same thing goes when the Pastors answer questions posed to them. Their first consideration is how can they answer the question, using the Bible, and NOT offend the person asking. That’s why it’s nearly impossible to get a straight answer out of them! You can be sure that whatever they say, baring Doctrinal issues of their particular church, will be designed to capture the advantage over any discussion that may ensue.

Pastors dislike dealing with specifics or absolutes. They seldom draw a line in the sand between good and evil unless speaking in highly general terms. To them nothing is really black or white, light of Dark, only somewhere in-between. When it comes to ethics especially they cannot find any common ground with Biblical principles. If an individual in the church is involved in wrong doing that Clearly disqualifies them from the Kingdom (as defined in the Bible) nothing affirmative can really be done to them. Consideration MUST come into play!

The Person may be a huge contributor to the church,. Or a helpful assistance in all the programs and activities. They may even be a Sunday School leader, youth director or have some sort of title like Deacon or Bishop. So the situation demands kid gloves, never confrontation. The reputation of the church is not really a matter of great concern, but salvaging a member in good standing as to not disturb the status quo. Pastors know (better than anyone) how much wrong doing everyone is involved in. They see it all. Truth is, no one, including the Pastor, is exempt from wrong doing! That’s the Common message of all churches. Therefore maintaining an ethical base with high standards of conduct is arbitrary at best.

Every Situation then must be handled on how it will effect the rest of the church. NOT what it Commands in the Bible. The Biblical principle of Mercy may be applied, but Justice is discarded. So in the Pastors mind love is overcoming a multitude of sin, but what he doesn’t see is that it is also REJOICING in Iniquity! The Crime is going unpunished. Others do not Fear, neither are they ashamed, so the leaven spreads through the entire congregation and many hearts are hardened to worse sins.

Like the Pharisees Jesus denounced in Matt23, it was their own Doctrines that kept them from recognizing the hypocrisy of what they were Preaching. To them the Rituals were more important than Repentance and faith proven by Deeds, as all the Prophets before them taught. The Pastors of today however put Doctrine above everything. Although they may love their traditions, the ritual only severs as a form of entertainment not dogma. But NOTHING can deviate from the Doctrine. No matter what the Contradiction with Scripture it is MOLDED to fit! When the Pastor tells his people that they are Eternally Secure once Saved, it is based on the fact that they are all Born sinners, incapable of choosing God (unless He first chooses them) and can do nothing but sin. Conclusion: IF they are not Secure in their Salvation….NO ONE can be Saved, because everyone sins daily their entire lives in thought, word and deed.

Accordingly, when they read that Jesus said, ‘He who endures to the end will be saved!’ Matt10:22, it’s Not Conditional on endurance in their Minds. But anyone ‘who endures’ was Saved, the others were not.
This Also follows that no one can: Shipwreck their faith, Fall into the error of the Wicked, Wither on the Vine or Apostate from the faith! (ALL of which are warned against in Scripture) Thus one fallacy necessitates another and another until the Doctrines out weigh the Bible. And then it’s END of Discussion. No further consideration in the matter. The Pastors sit in the seat of Authority and Must maintain Control.

This Same Principle applies to every tenet of Doctrine. The Pharisees were deeply concerned about the outside of the cup. The aberrance of ritualistic custom to make a person appear religious. Jesus called them White-washed Tombs full of dead men’s bones! Outwardly appearing Righteous but inside full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. BUT HOW is this any different than the Pastors are saying and doing in the Churches today? (not one bit!) They imply that by Believing or Trusting in Jesus as Savior that His Personal Righteousness and Obedience is magically transferred to you as some diffusion of Virtue.
Now God no longer sees you as the Vile sinner you are, incapable of right action, but as Clean, Pure and Blameless.

Who can deny that EVERYONE Professing to Christianity today in the Church Systems is Double-Minded, Divided in Heart, Serving Two Masters and full of lawless behavior? All of which is Absolutely Forbidden in Scripture and Shown CLEARLY that Darkness and Light cannot co-exist! Surly some have learned to conceal their vile hearts better than others, but for the most part the landscape inside the churches is Worse than ever before. When Sin goes un-punished for so long and no checks are in place to quell the iniquity, it soon becomes routine. The Prophets said that the People had forgotten how to Blush and the Pastors (or Shepherds) promise that no evil shall befall them. So they drag their iniquities to the alters and swear false oaths to equally false doctrines, believing God is showering His blessings on the Church.

Certainly they are Witnesses against themselves and every bit as Blind as the Pharisees. They fail to see the simplest of error or admit to the most blatant hypocrisy when it is exposed to them. Yet they cannot Possibly be Wrong! NO. The Doctrines were handed down to them by their godly founders. People who a brief look at history will reveal were motivated by Greed, lust for power, hatred and had murder in their hearts against anyone who opposed their teaching. Nevertheless the Churches honor these men who spilled the blood of the Real Saints! The Leaders of Christendom today are the very sons and daughters of these people, standing proudly on the graves the Real Preachers of Righteousness!

The Pharisees had exclude God from the Temple, although they daily went through the motions of worship and ritual as though He was still there. Their Nation was in shambles, under bondage to Rome and on the brink of mass destruction. While they bowed to Images and Read Scriptures it was nothing more than Dead Ceremony, saving no one from sin. They bitterly opposed anyone who denounced their hypocrisy and clung tenaciously to their positions of authority. It would all be ripped from their grasp at the Judgment, but NO ONE could hear the impending thunder of Doom coming their way.

To the present Day Church Pastors, Every Warning has been Given, and Every chance extended. The Pages of their own Bibles Contain the Words of Life if they would merely Read and Heed. But their Doctrines forbid them from Obedience and Pride won’t allow them to admit their mistakes. They also bow to an IMAGE of their own creation, while Christ stands aloof calling them to Repentance. But their house will be left to them desolate because they can ONLY hear the Soft Smooth Words of their cheery Pastors, Crying:
Peace, Peace when there no Peace! What will Remain, but a Bitter and Parched Ground where Truth is withdrawn and all Hope is Lost forever. www.standingthegap.org

 

[CanadaNZ]

Most in the pulpits today are just hirelings, preaching you get saved IN your sins, you were born a sinner, and Jesus is your remedy! NO real repentance, just confess and trust In what Jesus did on the cross to cover you IN your sins, sin isnt the issue just unbelief!


Original sin, Substitution, OSAS, faith alone, total depravity, etc... are all invented concepts not in the Bible, and you actually need to do something, such as obey God,(from your heart) crucify your flesh in repentance, and remain in the vine to stay saved!


You call it works and legalism, I call in heart purity, obedience, and a working faith in love, not works of the law but of the spirit!​

Woe Unto You, Pastors 1​

“Shutting up the Kingdom of Heaven against men!” Matt23:13​

There isn’t a Pastor alive today anywhere who would say anything that may upset the people in the Churches or make them feel uncomfortable or Convicted of any wrong doing. The same thing goes when the Pastors answer questions posed to them. Their first consideration is how can they answer the question, using the Bible, and NOT offend the person asking. That’s why it’s nearly impossible to get a straight answer out of them! You can be sure that whatever they say, baring Doctrinal issues of their particular church, will be designed to capture the advantage over any discussion that may ensue.

Pastors dislike dealing with specifics or absolutes. They seldom draw a line in the sand between good and evil unless speaking in highly general terms. To them nothing is really black or white, light of Dark, only somewhere in-between. When it comes to ethics especially they cannot find any common ground with Biblical principles. If an individual in the church is involved in wrong doing that Clearly disqualifies them from the Kingdom (as defined in the Bible) nothing affirmative can really be done to them. Consideration MUST come into play!

The Person may be a huge contributor to the church,. Or a helpful assistance in all the programs and activities. They may even be a Sunday School leader, youth director or have some sort of title like Deacon or Bishop. So the situation demands kid gloves, never confrontation. The reputation of the church is not really a matter of great concern, but salvaging a member in good standing as to not disturb the status quo. Pastors know (better than anyone) how much wrong doing everyone is involved in. They see it all. Truth is, no one, including the Pastor, is exempt from wrong doing! That’s the Common message of all churches. Therefore maintaining an ethical base with high standards of conduct is arbitrary at best.

Every Situation then must be handled on how it will effect the rest of the church. NOT what it Commands in the Bible. The Biblical principle of Mercy may be applied, but Justice is discarded. So in the Pastors mind love is overcoming a multitude of sin, but what he doesn’t see is that it is also REJOICING in Iniquity! The Crime is going unpunished. Others do not Fear, neither are they ashamed, so the leaven spreads through the entire congregation and many hearts are hardened to worse sins.

Like the Pharisees Jesus denounced in Matt23, it was their own Doctrines that kept them from recognizing the hypocrisy of what they were Preaching. To them the Rituals were more important than Repentance and faith proven by Deeds, as all the Prophets before them taught. The Pastors of today however put Doctrine above everything. Although they may love their traditions, the ritual only severs as a form of entertainment not dogma. But NOTHING can deviate from the Doctrine. No matter what the Contradiction with Scripture it is MOLDED to fit! When the Pastor tells his people that they are Eternally Secure once Saved, it is based on the fact that they are all Born sinners, incapable of choosing God (unless He first chooses them) and can do nothing but sin. Conclusion: IF they are not Secure in their Salvation….NO ONE can be Saved, because everyone sins daily their entire lives in thought, word and deed.

Accordingly, when they read that Jesus said, ‘He who endures to the end will be saved!’ Matt10:22, it’s Not Conditional on endurance in their Minds. But anyone ‘who endures’ was Saved, the others were not.
This Also follows that no one can: Shipwreck their faith, Fall into the error of the Wicked, Wither on the Vine or Apostate from the faith! (ALL of which are warned against in Scripture) Thus one fallacy necessitates another and another until the Doctrines out weigh the Bible. And then it’s END of Discussion. No further consideration in the matter. The Pastors sit in the seat of Authority and Must maintain Control.

This Same Principle applies to every tenet of Doctrine. The Pharisees were deeply concerned about the outside of the cup. The aberrance of ritualistic custom to make a person appear religious. Jesus called them White-washed Tombs full of dead men’s bones! Outwardly appearing Righteous but inside full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. BUT HOW is this any different than the Pastors are saying and doing in the Churches today? (not one bit!) They imply that by Believing or Trusting in Jesus as Savior that His Personal Righteousness and Obedience is magically transferred to you as some diffusion of Virtue.
Now God no longer sees you as the Vile sinner you are, incapable of right action, but as Clean, Pure and Blameless.

Who can deny that EVERYONE Professing to Christianity today in the Church Systems is Double-Minded, Divided in Heart, Serving Two Masters and full of lawless behavior? All of which is Absolutely Forbidden in Scripture and Shown CLEARLY that Darkness and Light cannot co-exist! Surly some have learned to conceal their vile hearts better than others, but for the most part the landscape inside the churches is Worse than ever before. When Sin goes un-punished for so long and no checks are in place to quell the iniquity, it soon becomes routine. The Prophets said that the People had forgotten how to Blush and the Pastors (or Shepherds) promise that no evil shall befall them. So they drag their iniquities to the alters and swear false oaths to equally false doctrines, believing God is showering His blessings on the Church.

Certainly they are Witnesses against themselves and every bit as Blind as the Pharisees. They fail to see the simplest of error or admit to the most blatant hypocrisy when it is exposed to them. Yet they cannot Possibly be Wrong! NO. The Doctrines were handed down to them by their godly founders. People who a brief look at history will reveal were motivated by Greed, lust for power, hatred and had murder in their hearts against anyone who opposed their teaching. Nevertheless the Churches honor these men who spilled the blood of the Real Saints! The Leaders of Christendom today are the very sons and daughters of these people, standing proudly on the graves the Real Preachers of Righteousness!

The Pharisees had exclude God from the Temple, although they daily went through the motions of worship and ritual as though He was still there. Their Nation was in shambles, under bondage to Rome and on the brink of mass destruction. While they bowed to Images and Read Scriptures it was nothing more than Dead Ceremony, saving no one from sin. They bitterly opposed anyone who denounced their hypocrisy and clung tenaciously to their positions of authority. It would all be ripped from their grasp at the Judgment, but NO ONE could hear the impending thunder of Doom coming their way.

To the present Day Church Pastors, Every Warning has been Given, and Every chance extended. The Pages of their own Bibles Contain the Words of Life if they would merely Read and Heed. But their Doctrines forbid them from Obedience and Pride won’t allow them to admit their mistakes. They also bow to an IMAGE of their own creation, while Christ stands aloof calling them to Repentance. But their house will be left to them desolate because they can ONLY hear the Soft Smooth Words of their cheery Pastors, Crying:
Peace, Peace when there no Peace! What will Remain, but a Bitter and Parched Ground where Truth is withdrawn and all Hope is Lost forever. www.standingthegap.org

Its great that you know how to copy and paste, I still haven't seen a post where you didn't copy and paste lol

 

[Tommy4Christ]

Remember I am not going against the few churches who are in line with truth, but many are not, these warning go out to the many who are teaching the saved in sin message, along with a mix of other reformed errors, thus causing havoc with the repentance and obedience messsage taught by the early disciples and Christ Himself.

Please make sure your pastor and leaders are not teaching any of these errors, as your eternal destiny is at stake, this is not a game, I wont debate with you, I come to warn you IF you are under the great delusion as I was for many lost years!

 

[Red33]

Remember I am not going against the few churches who are in line with truth, but many are not, these warning go out to the many who are teaching the saved in sin message, along with a mix of other reformed errors, thus causing havoc with the repentance and obedience messsage taught by the early disciples and Christ Himself.

Please make sure your pastor and leaders are not teaching any of these errors, as your eternal destiny is at stake, this is not a game, I wont debate with you, I come to warn you IF you are under the great delusion as I was for many lost years!

The fallacy of your whole thought life on this is, if you have so much to say against shepherds, why aren't you going out and tending the flock? You have much to say against the shepherd but are you willing to put into practice what you think they lack? If you can't practice the truth in those areas you are critical of, then what good are you to the flock? You are no better then those you criticize and even worse because you know the truth but practice it not. Instead of being critical of others, go do the will of God and walk in the wisdom of the truth and lay your life down for the brethren as you count all things but dung, so that you can win Christ.

 

[cfultz3]

Tommy,

Whether you said it or just quoted the following, you are in agreement to what was posted by you and thus, a partaker of someone else's lie:

There isn't a Pastor alive today anywhere who would say anything that may upset the people in the Churches or make them feel uncomfortable or Convicted of any wrong doing.

I will ask you the same, as it was with Job. What if there is but 10 who teach conviction? How about 5? Maybe 1? If but one can be found who teaches conviction, then you by assioation have been found guilty of a lie. Remember where it teaches that if you wish Godspeed to someone who teaches a different gospel, you become a partaker of their sin? (2Jn 1:10-11) I am not saying you are teaching a different gospel but that one can become a pertaker of another's sin.

 

[washed]

Tommy4Christ you sound like you need to get that mote out of your eye and fall out of agreement with a few follish Galations. Believing in Jesus and the price he paid on the cross for our salvation is necessary for repentance. We cannot pay for our own sins and we can do nothing to earn it. Our good works are a result of our faith and our love for Jesus. It is the love of God shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost that creates the desire to obey GOd. Relationship with Him through his woed, prayer and worship is the way we are conformed into image. Justification takes place at salvation ( the cross) santification is a process. the trying of our faith works patience etc. Am i saying we can just go about doing whatever we want, noof course not but I know this that I am trusting in the goodness and power of God to leep what I have committed to him against that day and should I sin to cleanse me from all unrighteousness when I repent and to finish the good work he began in me. When we are corrected by the Lord it is in love and because he is our Father and Jesus is our advocate. Humble yourself in the sight of the Lord and he will lift you up. He is my rock and my sheild and the lover of my soul.

 

[Red33]

Remember I am not going against the few churches who are in line with truth, but many are not, these warning go out to the many who are teaching the saved in sin message, along with a mix of other reformed errors, thus causing havoc with the repentance and obedience messsage taught by the early disciples and Christ Himself.

Please make sure your pastor and leaders are not teaching any of these errors, as your eternal destiny is at stake, this is not a game, I wont debate with you, I come to warn you IF you are under the great delusion as I was for many lost years!

If you had ever spent anytime in a fruitful ministry with a pastor-teacher that is raised up of God, you would see things so differently and would never say the things you do. You are very limited in your faith and you walk by sight (2Cor 5:7). When a believer walks by sight he will never see the goodness of God when it comes...

Jer 17:5-8

5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.
7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.
8 For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.

 

[Crossfire]

If you are familiar with history then you are well aware that apostasy has always made it's presence felt in the church. Both the Apostle Paul & John spoke of it in their perspective letters in the bible. The early church fathers spent a lot of time and effort taking a stand against heresies. Both Catholicism & Orthodox Churches embrace so much spiritually dead tradition it will make your head spin.

Just about every major movement within the Protestant church, over time, grew to become spiritually cold and stagnant thus those still embracing the left over, dead religious traditions of the previous movement would in turn persecute those involved in the next major move of God. It happened to the Lutherans, the Calvinists, the Baptists, the Quakers, the Methodists, the Holiness and now the Pentecostals.

So how or why does this happen? It occurs when people begin to take their eyes off of God and begin to embrace 'religion' [dead religious traditions]. Ultimately, Christianity is about a daily walk with God allowing him to transform our hearts, our thoughts and our lives. Dead religion sets in when we fall out of love with God on a personal level and begin to go through the motions. Yes, we may still attend church regularly, volunteer to either help people or the church and refrain from various types of sin thus to everyone else we may look like an average, normal Christian on the outside but, in truth, our hearts have wandered far from the presence of God.

Complacency is the biggest enemy of the modern church. Once complacency sets in, sin and religious confusion are sure to follow. This is why Satan seldom makes his presence felt in dramatic ways in the Church of the west, unlike in the missions field of Africa, Central & South America and the Far East. Satan's most effective weapon in America & Europe is stealth because if he were to begin to manifest himself in major ways, many would turn to God and the bible for answers.

 

[Red33]

If you are familiar with history then you are well aware that apostasy has always made it's presence felt in the church. Both the Apostle Paul & John spoke of it in their perspective letters in the bible. The early church fathers spent a lot of time and effort taking a stand against heresies. Both Catholicism & Orthodox Churches embrace so much spiritually dead tradition it will make your head spin.

Just about every major movement within the Protestant church, over time, grew to become spiritually cold and stagnant thus those still embracing the left over, dead religious traditions of the previous movement would in turn persecute those involved in the next major move of God. It happened to the Lutherans, the Calvinists, the Baptists, the Quakers, the Methodists, the Holiness and now the Pentecostals.

So how or why does this happen? It occurs when people begin to take their eyes off of God and begin to embrace 'religion' [dead religious traditions]. Ultimately, Christianity is about a daily walk with God allowing him to transform our hearts, our thoughts and our lives. Dead religion sets in when we fall out of love with God on a personal level and begin to go through the motions. Yes, we may still attend church regularly, volunteer to either help people or the church and refrain from various types of sin thus to everyone else we may look like an average, normal Christian on the outside but, in truth, our hearts have wandered far from the presence of God.

Complacency is the biggest enemy of the modern church. Once complacency sets in, sin and religious confusion are sure to follow. This is why Satan seldom makes his presence felt in dramatic ways in the Church of the west, unlike in the missions field of Africa, Central & South America and the Far East. Satan's most effective weapon in America & Europe is stealth because if he were to begin to manifest himself in major ways, many would turn to God and the bible for answers.

Anything can happen in any local church when you have the right man called of God in the pulpit. If God has raised him up and called him, He will equip him through grace for the task and undertaking that He has given to that man. Those that hear the word preached from that man of God will have the opportunity to be built up in the word and be edified in Christ. It starts in the pulpit with the hearts of the believers who will be of a ready mind to hear and received what is preached.

The grace and love of God will accompany the life of that ministry and God will raise up those that respond by faith in the love of God. This is how a body of believers begins and continues to grow in grace and knowledge of Christ and operates as a functioning organic body with the life of Christ reigning in the minds and hearts of the believers. The presence of God through the life of Christ is manifested through every portion and supply that each believer has through the Spirit. Christ is the head and the head supplies each member of the body corporately to reveal and make an invisible God visible in this present evil world.

There is way too much independant Christianity going on in the world and we simply can not make it on our own without a corporate body of believers to fellowship with, especially in the days that we live in today. This revelation of the body that was given to Paul is so important, so important that we should give heed to all the principles and doctrine laid out in the scriptures and humble ourselves so that we can have the grace in our heart and the supply of the Spirit to be able to comprehend the love of God with the saints.

 

[enochson]

Funny I had some far out idea that Jesus Christ forefill all that and we hear only His voice? But leave it up to man to kept on talking with the hot air of the tongue of firer (see James)

 

[resurrection33]

Anyone who obeys the commandments of Jesus is a shepherd.