Who knew?

[obedienttogod]

And they ALWAYS ignore Acts 2:6-8

They do, huh?

You mean they understand what Paul is claiming here:

1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue [[speaketh]] not unto men, but [[unto God]]: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

 

[KelbyofGod]

They do, huh?

You mean they understand what Paul is claiming here:

1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue [[speaketh]] not unto men, but [[unto God]]: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Obedient,

Spoon means that they overlook the fact that verses 6-8 are describing a portion of the day, during which those in the crown were indeed able to understand what was being spoken.

I'm not overlooking that portion even though I hadn't mentioned it yet.

I think it wise to also acknowledge that events of Acts 2:6-8 happened after the events of verses 1-5 (which happen to be the reason the group assembled for the subsequent 6-8 events.)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Loc,

People talk about it because they're wanting to know what does/doesn't happen when a person receives the Holy Ghost.
A similarly fruitless activity (to that of sitting in a pasture waiting for random donkeys to speak) would be to simply say the same words or even type of words that were spoken on Pentecost and then claim to have received the same thing.

1Co_4:20 "For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power."
Act 1:8 "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: ..."

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

If The Holy Spirit gives opens your mouth to speak in tongues of men and/or angels you will know it. It will not be your words, no more that they at pentecost. They came out speaking as the Holy Spirit gave utterance. So if he chooses that you speak you will, if not you will not. The others heard their speaking in their native tongues, the Holy spirit likewise opened those folks ears to hear, and it was to them in such a personal way that it was in their own native language. Why seek such thing rather seek the Lord and his Kingdom the Holy Spirit will do his job.
We seek some method so that we can mimic it and deceive other along with our selves. Those guys in the upper room sought God, and God did a work in them. Seek God not a work of God not even a sign from God.

 

[obedienttogod]

Obedient,

Spoon means that they overlook the fact that verses 6-8 are describing a portion of the day, during which those in the crown were indeed able to understand what was being spoken.

I'm not overlooking that portion even though I hadn't mentioned it yet.

I think it wise to also acknowledge that events of Acts 2:6-8 happened after the events of verses 1-5 (which happen to be the reason the group assembled for the subsequent 6-8 events.)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Ah, the wonderful Power of the Holy Spirit in action. I agree with all you have added, I am just looking at the intent of that from God's point of view. Everything involved, when God makes His intent known, you see the Cause and Effect being played out. Science set standards to achieve personal greatness in a sort of humble (arrogant) discoverer of theories. They have been trying to be God from day one. And within each great scientist/thinker outside of the box, we see their frailties along side their achievements. But God and His purpose, science of its own, He makes it clear the Cause and Effect to what we read in scripture. Genius!!

 

[Lanolin]

Nobody can mimic a heart felt praise and worship. Thats why God did this, to show us different ways of magnifying His name...even better, in languages we'd never spoken before. So we cant say we learned it by copying each other.

Isnt it a miracle the very first words a baby speaks? The mum and dad are always waiting for that first word. Till then its frustrating cos the baby isnt really speaking anything. They not crying out 'ma' or 'dad!' But when they do, its a sign they get it!!

 

[obedienttogod]

Well, if we could achieve the number of those "getting it, what a picture of views on the same realm of God's awareness we could see a glimpse of. That's much like being in what "one accord" was all about. And it's the same Holy Ghost who ushered in the gifts, that will be ushering in Spiritual Warfare in the possible soon coming days!!

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Nobody can mimic a heart felt praise and worship. Thats why God did this, to show us different ways of magnifying His name...even better, in languages we'd never spoken before. So we cant say we learned it by copying each other.

Isnt it a miracle the very first words a baby speaks? The mum and dad are always waiting for that first word. Till then its frustrating cos the baby isnt really speaking anything. They not crying out 'ma' or 'dad!' But when they do, its a sign they get it!!

Nonsense,
The most ancient evidence that we have is from the report of Winamon, a young man who was the worshipper of the Egyptian God Amon. The report which is dated approximately 1100 BC says that as he was worshipping Amon in the temple he was overwhelmed in a state of frenzy which continued throughout the night and he spoke in some ecstatic language. We don’t know if it was a legitimate language or just religious frenzy, gibberish, but it is clear that the tongues was the direct result of this kind of possession and control by a god, although it just could have been brought on by emotion which is true in a lot of cases.

Plato also reports religious ecstatics in roughly the 5th century BC. In the accounts we can observe that in each instance reported by Plato the speaker had no control over his mental faculties, he did not know what he was saying, there was the need for some sort of interpreter or diviner who would tell what was said, and the person was allegedly under the control of a god.

Virgil, writing about 17-19 BC, mentions a Sibyline priestess who would go into an ecstatic state where she was unified with the spirit of Apollo, and she would begin to speak in tongues, in ecstatic utterance. They claimed that it was known language. This is in pagan Greek worship of Apollo that she was probably possessed by a demon and spoke in a legitimate or a known language as well as in incoherent gibberish.

Then we have the Pythoness, the Oracle at Delphi. She had the symbol of a python and the Oracle at Delphi had to do with the worship of Apollo during part of the year and the worship of Dionysus, the god of wine, another part of the year. Some four centuries later Chrysostommade the following observation about the pythoness of Delphi: “This same pythoness is said, being a female, to sit at times upon the tripod of Apollo astride, and thus the evil spirit ascending from beneath and entering the lower part of her body fills the woman with madness. And she with dishevelled hair begins to foam at the mouth, and thus being in a frenzy, to utter the words of her madness.”

Also in the Greek world at this time was the rise of what was known as mystery religions. They were all mystical and emotional in their orientation, not too different from a lot of new age religions that we see in our own culture and not too dissimilar to some of the more extreme Charistmatic groups as well, and ecstatic utterance was associated with numerous other groups. So the point we should get from this is that throughout the ancient world from 1100 BC up to the New Testament period there were counterfeit tongues, an ecstatic utterance that was typical of many ancient Near-Eastern religions where they thought that the way to become spiritual and identified with their god was to go into an ecstatic trance where the god entered into the body of the individual, controlled it, and spoke through that individual. We see that there is a background of a pseudo-language or ecstatic utterance that runs through all kinds of religions and countries in the ancient world. Furthermore there are other occurrences of the glossolalic speech in other religions. There is a Hindu sect that practices this, certain Moslems, a tribe of Eskimos in Greenland that have services led by an individual where they beat the drums and sing and dance, a lot of nudity, who practice glossolalia, and there is a group in Tibet among Buddhists who practice glossolalia.
I'm pretty sure these have not received the Holy Spirit, and were in many cases faking. Just as I have seen in churches when someone was faking and disrupting the service.

 

[KelbyofGod]

If The Holy Spirit gives opens your mouth to speak in tongues of men and/or angels you will know it. It will not be your words, no more that they at pentecost. They came out speaking as the Holy Spirit gave utterance. So if he chooses that you speak you will, if not you will not. The others heard their speaking in their native tongues, the Holy spirit likewise opened those folks ears to hear, and it was to them in such a personal way that it was in their own native language. Why seek such thing rather seek the Lord and his Kingdom the Holy Spirit will do his job.
We seek some method so that we can mimic it and deceive other along with our selves. Those guys in the upper room sought God, and God did a work in them. Seek God not a work of God not even a sign from God.

Loc,

The last two sentences of your statement are profound. Jesus made a promise to them and they didn't leave until they got it.

They had to tarry for it. They couldn't just go on about their business claiming they'd already received it just because they had been given a promise....Not even if they believed. They didn't receive it until it was poured out...upon them.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

Ah, the wonderful Power of the Holy Spirit in action. I agree with all you have added, I am just looking at the intent of that from God's point of view. Everything involved, when God makes His intent known, you see the Cause and Effect being played out. Science set standards to achieve personal greatness in a sort of humble (arrogant) discoverer of theories. They have been trying to be God from day one. And within each great scientist/thinker outside of the box, we see their frailties along side their achievements. But God and His purpose, science of its own, He makes it clear the Cause and Effect to what we read in scripture. Genius!!

Obedient,

Thanks for your post.

I personally think there has been a slander of science similarly as there has been a slander of God. Some people say that science tries to explain away God. Perhaps FALSE science does, but true science is geared toward the discovery of truth...and God has no problem with truth. Likewise, some people (especially in the religious arena) seem to be saying that God is somehow against science. (Spoiler alert....) God is the one who created all that stuff they're discovering.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

Obedient,

Thanks for your post.

I personally think there has been a slander of science similarly as there has been a slander of God. Some people say that science tries to explain away God. Perhaps FALSE science does, but true science is geared toward the discovery of truth...and God has no problem with truth. Likewise, some people (especially in the religious arena) seem to be saying that God is somehow against science. (Spoiler alert....) God is the one who created all that stuff they're discovering.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Perhaps I should also add that as much as we God-servers would like to claim we embrace truth, ...we're actually rather freaked out at some of the things science discovers that we'd rather pretend don't exist. What I've learned so far is that instead of just butting our head against it and hoping it goes away, if we will pray about it, asking God what's really going on, he will reveal the answers. And often (not always) it is our own assumptions that led us to believe that something could or couldn't be that way. God doesn't make assumptions. And he's not afraid of the way he did things.

Love in Jesus to all,
Kelby

 

[obedienttogod]

Obedient,

Thanks for your post.

I personally think there has been a slander of science similarly as there has been a slander of God. Some people say that science tries to explain away God. Perhaps FALSE science does, but true science is geared toward the discovery of truth...and God has no problem with truth. Likewise, some people (especially in the religious arena) seem to be saying that God is somehow against science. (Spoiler alert....) God is the one who created all that stuff they're discovering.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I love science and the drive to understand so it can be reasoned. It's a beautiful institution. It makes perfect sense. I believe science explains gaps in scripture where the Bible is inconclusive.

 

[Jackson123]

DC,
Thanks for the reply and for answering the original question in the second paragraph. Although my understanding about 'tongues' does differ from yours, my first reason for posting this was to highlight that even though we have lots of scripture prior to God moving, it seems that we (as humans) are pretty much clueless as to what God actually means...until we experience it.
In other words, God may tell us about something, but those who think they know what it will be like are almost guaranteed to be mostly wrong. Just like there were many scriptures describing the coming messiah, but when he came, few could even recognize it. and few of those had anything to do with the religious majority of the day.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Seem to me there are 2 type of speak in tongues.

1. Speak in toungues that can be understand other people from other language.

2. Speak in tongues that can not be understand. This type must be interprate.
For this type, you better stop unless some body

1 Corinthian 14

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

This verse suggested, yes you can speak in tongues in the church, for a minute or two, than stop, wait if other interprate, if no body interprate, stop.

In other word, it is ok to speak in tongue in the church as long as with interpretation.

How do we know there will be interpretation? We do not know, so it is ok to try.

One day, I read a testimony. There was a girl in my town, her mom had a problem with her mental. She love her mom and try to help her. Doctor can not help, so she learn shamanism to cure her mom. She fail and the devil not leave her alone. Some time she saw a snake in her room and all scary thing. Her friend give her gospel song cd. When she listen that cd, she feel peace. So she ask her friend if she can attend the church with her. She went to church and accept Jesus.

She went home go to her room, and pray, and it happen to be in tounge, her roommate hear and cry, she ask her why she know her sin.

This girls do not speak Chinese, her roommate do. Her roommate say, that she speak 3 Chinese dialect when she pray and those 3 had the same meaning.

As a new believer, she do not know what going on, she call her pastor, then she, her friend, her friend boyfriend were baptized in the same time.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Seem to me there are 2 type of speak in tongues.

1. Speak in toungues that can be understand other people from other language.

2. Speak in tongues that can not be understand. This type must be interprate.
For this type, you better stop unless some body

1 Corinthian 14

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

This verse suggested, yes you can speak in tongues in the church, for a minute or two, than stop, wait if other interprate, if no body interprate, stop.

In other word, it is ok to speak in tongue in the church as long as with interpretation.

How do we know there will be interpretation? We do not know, so it is ok to try.

Jackson123,

You are correct about those two types of tongues in situations where God wants to use tongues to minister to others.

If God is not wanting to use tongues to minister to the church, the speaker should cease praying in tongues so loud as for the church to hear, but may still pray in tongues so as to only be speaking to himself and God,...as verse 28 says.

If you take it to God in prayer, he can lead a person when (or when not to) speak in tongues TO the congregation.

One day, I read a testimony. There was a girl in my town, her mom had a problem with her mental. She love her mom and try to help her. Doctor can not help, so she learn shamanism to cure her mom. She fail and the devil not leave her alone. Some time she saw a snake in her room and all scary thing. Her friend give her gospel song cd. When she listen that cd, she feel peace. So she ask her friend if she can attend the church with her. She went to church and accept Jesus.
She went home go to her room, and pray, and it happen to be in tounge, her roommate hear and cry, she ask her why she know her sin.
This girls do not speak Chinese, her roommate do. Her roommate say, that she speak 3 Chinese dialect when she pray and those 3 had the same meaning.
As a new believer, she do not know what going on, she call her pastor, then she, her friend, her friend boyfriend were baptized in the same time.

I have heard of several occasions when someone was praying in tongues and God would have the tongue be a language that a listener understands. The speaker may not know when it is happening, but the listener does. This is called "diversities of tongues" in the bible. God does this as a witness that he is still God and is still willing to move miraculously...and to speak something to the listener that the speaker cannot hear/understand.... and, as a witness that it truly is God who is moving.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Lanolin]

Nonsense,
The most ancient evidence that we have is from the report of Winamon, a young man who was the worshipper of the Egyptian God Amon. The report which is dated approximately 1100 BC says that as he was worshipping Amon in the temple he was overwhelmed in a state of frenzy which continued throughout the night and he spoke in some ecstatic language. We don’t know if it was a legitimate language or just religious frenzy, gibberish, but it is clear that the tongues was the direct result of this kind of possession and control by a god, although it just could have been brought on by emotion which is true in a lot of cases.

Plato also reports religious ecstatics in roughly the 5th century BC. In the accounts we can observe that in each instance reported by Plato the speaker had no control over his mental faculties, he did not know what he was saying, there was the need for some sort of interpreter or diviner who would tell what was said, and the person was allegedly under the control of a god.

Virgil, writing about 17-19 BC, mentions a Sibyline priestess who would go into an ecstatic state where she was unified with the spirit of Apollo, and she would begin to speak in tongues, in ecstatic utterance. They claimed that it was known language. This is in pagan Greek worship of Apollo that she was probably possessed by a demon and spoke in a legitimate or a known language as well as in incoherent gibberish.

Then we have the Pythoness, the Oracle at Delphi. She had the symbol of a python and the Oracle at Delphi had to do with the worship of Apollo during part of the year and the worship of Dionysus, the god of wine, another part of the year. Some four centuries later Chrysostommade the following observation about the pythoness of Delphi: “This same pythoness is said, being a female, to sit at times upon the tripod of Apollo astride, and thus the evil spirit ascending from beneath and entering the lower part of her body fills the woman with madness. And she with dishevelled hair begins to foam at the mouth, and thus being in a frenzy, to utter the words of her madness.”

Also in the Greek world at this time was the rise of what was known as mystery religions. They were all mystical and emotional in their orientation, not too different from a lot of new age religions that we see in our own culture and not too dissimilar to some of the more extreme Charistmatic groups as well, and ecstatic utterance was associated with numerous other groups. So the point we should get from this is that throughout the ancient world from 1100 BC up to the New Testament period there were counterfeit tongues, an ecstatic utterance that was typical of many ancient Near-Eastern religions where they thought that the way to become spiritual and identified with their god was to go into an ecstatic trance where the god entered into the body of the individual, controlled it, and spoke through that individual. We see that there is a background of a pseudo-language or ecstatic utterance that runs through all kinds of religions and countries in the ancient world. Furthermore there are other occurrences of the glossolalic speech in other religions. There is a Hindu sect that practices this, certain Moslems, a tribe of Eskimos in Greenland that have services led by an individual where they beat the drums and sing and dance, a lot of nudity, who practice glossolalia, and there is a group in Tibet among Buddhists who practice glossolalia.
I'm pretty sure these have not received the Holy Spirit, and were in many cases faking. Just as I have seen in churches when someone was faking and disrupting the service.

Just because other religious people make noises doesnt negate what the Holy spirit does.

Its like saying other religions also read books and eat special foods together and give alms and fast and have healings just like christians do.

What you need to have is spiritual discernment but if you dont have that then you will just label every miracle, sign and wonder to demons and wonder why God isnt pleased with you and your prayers just reach the ceiling. Because youve mocked what God can do.

If some people are faking it, too bad for them, they will soon learn they cant actually fake being a christian for long! I really wouldnt even worry about it. If someone wants to make a big song and dance over receiving tongues just to prove they are a christian then I dont see why that should bother anyone else, if they are praising God with their tongue. Even if its unknown to you. If they are not genuine and faking then nothing will come of it anyway.

So either case, I just wouldnt worry about it. Look to the fruits, because its by ones fruits that one knows whether one is a believer or not. You will be able to tell.

 

[Jackson123]

Just because other religious people make noises doesnt negate what the Holy spirit does.

Its like saying other religions also read books and eat special foods together and give alms and fast and have healings just like christians do.

What you need to have is spiritual discernment but if you dont have that then you will just label every miracle, sign and wonder to demons and wonder why God isnt pleased with you and your prayers just reach the ceiling. Because youve mocked what God can do.

If some people are faking it, too bad for them, they will soon learn they cant actually fake being a christian for long! I really wouldnt even worry about it. If someone wants to make a big song and dance over receiving tongues just to prove they are a christian then I dont see why that should bother anyone else, if they are praising God with their tongue. Even if its unknown to you. If they are not genuine and faking then nothing will come of it anyway.

So either case, I just wouldnt worry about it. Look to the fruits, because its by ones fruits that one knows whether one is a believer or not. You will be able to tell.

Yep, some time people forget if there is counterfeit money prove there is real money.

Devil make counterfeit give because there is real give. Why counterfeit it is because the real is valuable or expensive.

Say give of healing, it is very effective give to bring people to the Lord. I am witnessing some people accept Jesus after experience miracle healing. Then devil make similar give. Shaman do the same. In OT when Moses turn his stick to snake, migician does the same.

Devil always do like God, to make people believe he is god.

 

[JohnTalmid]

In reading the entirety of the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John...and perhaps even the entirety of the Old Testament.... How many here would have predicted that the outpouring of the Holy Ghost (Acts 2) was going to include speaking in tongues?

(regardless what anyone thinks "speaking with tongues" actually means)[/QUOTEIt should be expected from the feast we come to. It is record that when the glory came down to rest on the mount and Moshe was given the law tongs of fire spoke in the 70 languages of the world. The mountain lifted up as Moses was on it.
We also have an account with Yoseph in Egypt. Before he was exalted in the house of the King of Egypt an angel, (Messenger) came to him so heay ascend the 70 steps to the throne. In the Kingdom of Egypt there where 70 steps and each step represented a language of the world and in order to ascend the steps a person must speak each language as he ascended. Yoseph couldn't get it so the Angel. Touched his mouth and gave him utterance before the King.
There is much more however a thing is put to death or life on two or three witnesses.
Shalom in Messiah John Talmid

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Just because other religious people make noises doesnt negate what the Holy spirit does.

Its like saying other religions also read books and eat special foods together and give alms and fast and have healings just like christians do.

What you need to have is spiritual discernment but if you dont have that then you will just label every miracle, sign and wonder to demons and wonder why God isnt pleased with you and your prayers just reach the ceiling. Because youve mocked what God can do.

If some people are faking it, too bad for them, they will soon learn they cant actually fake being a christian for long! I really wouldnt even worry about it. If someone wants to make a big song and dance over receiving tongues just to prove they are a christian then I dont see why that should bother anyone else, if they are praising God with their tongue. Even if its unknown to you. If they are not genuine and faking then nothing will come of it anyway.

So either case, I just wouldnt worry about it. Look to the fruits, because its by ones fruits that one knows whether one is a believer or not. You will be able to tell.

I really was only saying 2 things ... Ok 3 then.
1. I was answering your statement that no one can take heart felt worship, and clearly they can.
2. When I see signs and wonders I am usually looking for fruit rather than getting emotionally caught up in the signs
3. I'm not so sure that what some churches or church folks get caught up in, is as much the Holy Spirit, as it is their own hype.
Addendum...I don't care and it's none of my business who is fake and who ain't.