why do the Brethren devour each other God?

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A

AnandaHya

Guest
#1
Dear God why have they forgotten these verses?

James 3: 10- 4: 11

James 3:10-18 (New King James Version)

10 Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. 11 Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening? 12 Can a fig tree, my brethren, bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Thus no spring yields both salt water and fresh.[a]

Heavenly Versus Demonic Wisdom


13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

James 4

Pride Promotes Strife

1 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? 2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet[a] you do not have because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. 4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?
6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:


“ God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”[c]

Humility Cures Worldliness
7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.
Do Not Judge a Brother


11 Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 12 There is one Lawgiver,[d] who is able to save and to destroy. Who[e] are you to judge another?[f

Hebrews 12:5-11 (New King James Version)

5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:


“ My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
6 For whom the LORD loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.”[a]

7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU_rTX23V7Q&feature=related

WHY LORD IS THE FRUIT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS so lacking?


Praise God for He is our guide, our One TRUE teachers and His righteousness and Holiness knows no bounds. Praise be all who come in the name of the LORD. God be merciful. In Jesus name we pray, amen.
 
A

Avidan

Guest
#2
16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. (wolves) (bringing a spirit of fear)

17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. (brethren) (bringing a Spirit of power, love, sound mind)

That's why I think it's wise to leave the discerning as to what is God and what isn't up to the person receiving the help. Because the one receiving help will ultimately know how it affects them and what Spirit/spirit it brings. (Concerning a situation where someone actually asks another for help or accepts help offered)

If I ever say anything that condemns or brings confusion, I'll take it back, even if I know I'm saying the right thing. The right things to be said also need to be said at the right time and in the right Spirit. If I am saying the right things at the wrong time, or in the wrong spirit, then it's not the right thing to say and my brothers conscience needs to come before whether or not I think I am right or wrong. I could be completely wrong too, but, a good sign for me is to examine what Spirit/spirit it brings the person that I am speaking to and/or helping (from their point of view), and what fruit it brings.

Much of what I see in the 'church' are people acting upon the 'voice of God,' but it just brings hurt and confusion (even though it might sound really good and Godly). And there doesn't seem to be much action, works of faith through love, just, 'you should have done this, or, if you would have done that, this wouldn't have happened.'

Why didn't Job's friends help him? They didn't do anything but accuse him and rip him apart with their words. At least they could have interceded for him, if there was nothing they could do to help physically. But, there was, they could have cleaned his wounds, they could have brought him in, they could have paid for someone to take care of him continually if they weren't able. But, they didn't, and who do they remind us all of... well, they remind me of 'church.'

I don't even think half of the people there know they are hurting people when they do it. They are just following some spirit blindly, thinking it's God. This is why it is important to ask God for signs, like Gideon. Gideon asked God for signs for a reason, he wanted to make sure he was really following the right Spirit. (even though in every church sermon I have heard about Gideon, he was made out to be weak because of this, he wasn't weak, he was very wise and he knew that God would answer him and honor him and any imitation wouldn't/couldn't. Just like Elijah knew God would answer him at Mount Carmel and the prophets of Baal would be left powerless.)

We all mess up though, and the difference is this. When we mess up, do we ask forgiveness from our brethren? If we speak by 'the Spirit of God' and it brings our brethren anything less than power, love, and a sound mind, do we repent? I know you do, I've seen them even on here :) and if any of this brings any confusion or condemnation to you, I'll ask your forgiveness too. Whether I think I am right or wrong. It's your conscience that comes first. Even though I believe what I am saying to be very accurate and sound, if it trespasses against you and brings you into condemnation, I would rather not have said anything at all.

Here's some thought's that Job had concerning his friends that were speaking for "God."

Job 16:1 Then Job answered and said,
Job 16:2 I have heard many such things: miserable comforters are ye all.
Job 16:3 Shall vain words have an end? or what emboldeneth thee that thou answerest?
Job 16:4 I also could speak as ye do: if your soul were in my soul's stead, I could heap up words against you, and shake mine head at you.
Job 16:5 But I would strengthen you with my mouth, and the moving of my lips should asswage your grief.

Job 19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.
Job 19:22 Why do ye persecute me as God, and are not satisfied with my flesh?
Job 19:23 Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book!
Job 19:24 That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever!


Heavenly Father, I stand with all those that see the lack of love and who are praying for love above all gifts. Please help and draw us into Your heart. In Jesus Name, Amen.
 
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A

AnandaHya

Guest
#3
Avidan, I understand and I have moved past condemnation and live in the grace of God. :) nothing you can say or do can change that so have no fears on that account. Be at peace brother, God wants us to be at peace in His word.

Remember we do not do the saving. GOD does. we just speak as the Holy Spirit promotes us. Do not worry so much about offending people. look first in your heart and WHY you do the action. IS it LOVE for them?

Some times my words are not always kind but always they are out of LOVE because some people need TOUGH love because the soft voice does not get through to their hardened hearts they must first be made to see they have SINNED before they can be brought back and ready to listen to the HOLY SPIRIT who speaks in their heart. Who knocks on the door of their heart but THEY must invite Him in.

Many have demons tormenting them and we must rebuke and teach them how to defend themselves by feeding them scripture precept by precept. its in Isaiah that this would be so.

The lies the world has told the faithful has either swallowed whole or rejected the baby with the bathwater. We need discernment between truths and lies and the world refuse to believe that God gifts people with the spiritual EYES of discernment of spirits, so they turn a deaf ear and lay down their armor and sword before the throne of Lucifer and his lulling song of "peace"

Jesus did not come for PEACE but with a SWORD.


Ezekiel 21:15-17 (New King James Version)

15 I have set the point of the sword against all their gates,
That the heart may melt and many may stumble.
Ah! It is made bright;
It is grasped for slaughter:
16 “ Swords at the ready!
Thrust right!
Set your blade!
Thrust left—
Wherever your edge is ordered!
17 “ I also will beat My fists together,
And I will cause My fury to rest;
I, the LORD, have spoken.”
 
A

Avidan

Guest
#4
This isn't the correct forum for this. I'm not here to debate, I'll post this, however, for those reading and I won't post anymore in the prayer forum concerning this.

From the looks of your response, you already know the answer as to why brethren devour each other, it's more like sheep to the slaughter if 'brethren' do not put the consciences of other brethren first.

And that 'sword' is concerning the division Christ brings, it is between families, specifically Jewish, who have a member who convert to Christianity. The new Christian will stop trying to fulfill all of the religious requirements of the Law of Moses that they followed to justify themselves and then will follow Christ, believing only in Christ for their justification. This is why He was saying those who follow Him would have to hate members of their family, because, to members of their family (who justified themselves by obeying the Law of Moses and their own works) Jesus' Spirit was of Satan.

We are to establish the Law of Moses abiding in Christ fulfilling it, loving others as ourselves. This division, this sword, was dividing those who believed in justification by works of the law and those who believed in justification by works of faith through love.

Concerning brethren and our neighbor, everything is to be done unto edification.

Rom 15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
Rom 15:3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.


Concerning offense toward a brother, it seems to be pretty important to Jesus that we provide an opportunity for peace:

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause[b] shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.

23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.


We don't want a brother or a neighbor in a state of unforgiveness if there is anything we can do about it. So I will continue take that matter very seriously.

Concerning peace:

5 Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

I shouldn't have answered the question in the prayer forum to begin with, but, it's a good question, ultimately (I believe) the answer is love,mercy, and peace.

Heavenly Father, I lift all of this up to you Lord, please draw us all closer to Your heart. In Jesus Name, Amen.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#5
"We don't want a brother or a neighbor in a state of unforgiveness if there is anything we can do about it. So I will continue take that matter very seriously."

Why would I argue with words spoken from the heart?

Just remember sometimes all we can do is pray for the other person. Sometimes we can do all and make amends and apologize and try to mend fences but at a point it will come, do you bend to their will or do you follow Jesus commands.

sometimes God tells us to walk away and leave it in His hands because He does not want us to be with that person. I speak out of personal experience and the person I am thinking about needs prayers for he is very confused

We used to date before I meet my husband and he quoted those same scripture to me of why I should go with him to various religious site such as Hindu temples and such. He went to church with me and claimed to be among the brethren of Jesus Flock, he even took communion and I did not know enough of the Bible at the time to tell him his error. So I did things to keep the peace that was not right in God's eyes. He took offense when I told him his action would not lead to Heaven because he worshiped idols and not God with his whole heart. We are cordial now but I will not make peace with him on this matter.

There is a line God wants us to draw. GOd wants us to love but with boundaries. God tells us to forgive but not to stay in abusive relationships or spiritually unsafe ones.

The answer is love, mercy, peace and JUSTICE. you must remember God is a JUST God and He says Vengeance is MINE, saith the Lord.

we do not seek to hurt others, but to pray for them, but we do not allow them to sin against us and harm us either.

Dear God, please let those word come across in a manner befitting your Glory.
 
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A

AnandaHya

Guest
#6
be careful, satan loves half truths and his favorite is cutting the Bible in half: either teaching only the laws without the redemption of the cross (as you spoke about in your message)

or teaching of the Grace without the law and living according to the laws. our grace and salvation should not be a covering for VICE.

this is not a point of contention, this is a warning to lift your shield of faith up and secure your helmet of salvation on. shoes of peace are nice but don't forget the rest: breast plate of righteousness, sword of Spirit which is the word of God and the seeds to plant in the minds and hearts of the people you encounter


However I did not post this to debate. I posted to have people to stand in prayer with me that the church stop fighting and stand united in LOVE, Truth, Mercy and Justice.

Lord Hear our prayers and help us speak and walk in your love, In Jesus holy name we pray, amen.
 
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pickles

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#7
Dear God why have they forgotten these verses?

James 3: 10- 4: 11

James 3:10-18 (New King James Version)

10 Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. 11 Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening? 12 Can a fig tree, my brethren, bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Thus no spring yields both salt water and fresh.[a]

Heavenly Versus Demonic Wisdom


13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

James 4

Pride Promotes Strife

1 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? 2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet[a] you do not have because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. 4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?
6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:


“ God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”[c]

Humility Cures Worldliness
7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.
Do Not Judge a Brother


11 Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 12 There is one Lawgiver,[d] who is able to save and to destroy. Who[e] are you to judge another?[f

Hebrews 12:5-11 (New King James Version)

5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:


“ My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
6 For whom the LORD loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.”[a]

7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

YouTube - Who Am I - Casting Crowns

WHY LORD IS THE FRUIT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS so lacking?

Praise God for He is our guide, our One TRUE teachers and His righteousness and Holiness knows no bounds. Praise be all who come in the name of the LORD. God be merciful. In Jesus name we pray, amen.

Amen and God bless.
Thankyou jesus for being the life in which we live!

pickles