Conditional Salvation

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Mar 12, 2014
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I think Eternal security believe if that person ever save, he may cut off one day but he will re abide before he die.

If he conditionally repents he can be saved, but he was severed off to a lost state in which he remains and be cast in the fire and burned (hell) if he does not repent.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Scripture often speaks of professors (professing faith, but not possessing faith)
as being in the kingdom, but not of the kingdom, and whom Jesus takes away (Jn 15:2).

See parables of Mt 13; Lk 8:13; Jn 8:30-31; Gal 5:4; Heb 6:4-6, 10:29; 2Pe 1:19, 2:20-22.

Jn 15:2 "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:.."

These branches were in Christ, not falsely claiming to be in Christ but actually in Christ. Cannot be severed/taken away from the vine if never really attached to the vine.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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"Repentance" is a change of mind.

Faith is repenting of unbelief, and turning to belief.

The impenitent are lost, Rom 2:4,5; Lk 13:3,5 so all the belief only in the world will never save an impenitent person.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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The impenitent are lost, Rom 2:4,5; Lk 13:3,5 so all the belief only in the world will never save an impenitent person.
Biblically, in the Greek, "impenitent" (ametanoetos) means "without change of mind,
not affected by change of mind."

Yes, belief in Jesus Christ is the only thing that saves, because it means a change of mind from unbelief to belief.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Biblically, in the Greek, "impenitent" (ametanoetos) means "without change of mind,
not affected by change of mind."

Yes, belief in Jesus Christ is the only thing that saves, because it means a change of mind from unbelief to belief.

One repents of sins, so can one not repent of his sins and still be saved?
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
Biblically, in the Greek, "impenitent" (ametanoetos) means "without change of mind,
not affected by change of mind."

Yes, belief in Jesus Christ is the only thing that saves, because it means a change of mind from unbelief to belief.
One repents of sins, so can one not repent of his sins and still be saved?
Repentance is changing one's mind. . .regarding unbelief. . .and regarding one's guilt of sin.

One may not change his mind about his guilt of sin until he believes and his eye are opened to his sin.

But he was saved at, and only by, his repentance of unbelief.
 
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tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
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No, my post was to show that God extends His mercy conditionally - depending upon if man repents or not, Jer 18:8,10.
Repentance is not a work of man, it is a gift of God (Acts 5:31). Therefore, repentance cannot be a requirement for obtaining mercy. Actually, because of God's mercy and goodness men are persuaded and enabled to repent (Rom. 2:4).
 
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tribesman

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Oct 13, 2011
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Repentance includes repentance of beliefs in false gospels, where salvation is conditioned on the sinner and not on the work of Christ alone, and giving up all attempts of establishing one's own righteousness.
 

Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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If he conditionally repents he can be saved, but he was severed off to a lost state in which he remains and be cast in the fire and burned (hell) if he does not repent.
Yup I agree. If he stop his faith in Jesus then he lost.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Do you believe that a truly saved soul can or will stop his faith in Jesus?
Seem to me Jesus will pursue this man. He not just let him go. But I believe faith is the requirement, if no faith anymore than no save.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
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Seem to me Jesus will pursue this man. He not just let him go. But I believe faith is the requirement, if no faith anymore than no save.
About His sheep Jesus said: no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand (John 10:29).

I urge you to do a serious study on sovereign grace. There are NO conditions or requirements for salvation. If you believe this then you have followed an erroneous and non-scriptural teaching. ALL conditions and requirements for our salvation were fulfilled in the person and work of Jesus Christ alone. Not in the sinner! Not even to the tiniest part. God's righteousness is an alien righteousness wholly outside of us. Everything that a believer does which pleases God is a fruit of him being justified by God. Faith is then also the fruit of regeneration.
 
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mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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Jn 15:2 "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:.."

These branches were in Christ, not falsely claiming to be in Christ but actually in Christ. Cannot be severed/taken away from the vine if never really attached to the vine.
A branch that bears NO fruit is a DEAD branch. To be "in Christ" under the New Covenant is to be a Christian (2 Corinthians 5:17). To be a dead branch self-attached to the vine, like Judas Iscariot is to not be a Christian. Though Judas was externally attached to the vine, he did not bear fruit or abide in Christ because he was an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Jesus (John 6:64-71) unlike the remaining 11 disciples (John 13:10,11). Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, He neither elected them, nor saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the fruitless branches are identified as not belonging to the vine and are removed.

Jesus mentions branches that bear fruit and branches that bear no fruit (vs. 2) but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then stopped bearing fruit. When Jesus spoke these words, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified (John 7:38,39) had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? "the body of Christ" (1 Corinthians 12:13) So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine, (in the vine) not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established. So in John 15, we see two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, (like Judas) and the vital which bears fruit - like the remaining 11 disciples).
 

Cassian

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Oct 12, 2013
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About His sheep Jesus said: no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand (John 10:29).

I urge you to do a serious study on sovereign grace. There are NO conditions or requirements for salvation. If you believe this then you have followed an erroneous and non-scriptural teaching. ALL conditions and requirements for our salvation were fulfilled in the person and work of Jesus Christ alone. Not in the sinner! Not even to the tiniest part. God's righteousness is an alien righteousness wholly outside of us. Everything that a believer does which pleases God is a fruit of him being justified by God. Faith is then also the fruit of regeneration.
You are conflating the work of Christ in reversing the fall with man's response to that gift and God's intended purpose for creating man.
Respective of a person's salvation, his relationship with God has always been conditional from Adam to the present time. There is nothing in scripture that states God changed the purpose for which He created man.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
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You are conflating the work of Christ in reversing the fall with man's response to that gift and God's intended purpose for creating man.
Respective of a person's salvation, his relationship with God has always been conditional from Adam to the present time. There is nothing in scripture that states God changed the purpose for which He created man.
Enlighten us how on what condition a man can stand blameless, perfected, without spot and wrinkle and full of assurance of his right standing before God almighty.
 

Cassian

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Oct 12, 2013
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Enlighten us how on what condition a man can stand blameless, perfected, without spot and wrinkle and full of assurance of his right standing before God almighty.
Through faith and working with God to be conformed to His Image, in His Likeness. None of which gets accomplished unless man synergistically cooperates with God. Christ did absolutely nothing on the Cross that saves you as an individual. You are being saved through a relationship that was made possible by the work of Christ on the Cross.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
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Through faith and working with God to be conformed to His Image, in His Likeness. None of which gets accomplished unless man synergistically cooperates with God. Christ did absolutely nothing on the Cross that saves you as an individual. You are being saved through a relationship that was made possible by the work of Christ on the Cross.
Hey...that quote in bold is...gross. Jesus' blood is not enough in and by itself...it just gave you a possibility to work a little better to hopefully attain salvation. You must add something to it, by making sure your synergistic faith march is good enough. Btw you didn't actually answer my question. How do you do to get assurance for your right standing with God? Where do you look? To your self and your own efforts? Are you sure you have enough faith? How? What do you do, in practice, to know you are being saved?
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Biblically, in the Greek, "impenitent" (ametanoetos) means "without change of mind,
not affected by change of mind."

Yes, belief in Jesus Christ is the only thing that saves, because it means a change of mind from unbelief to belief.

One repents of sin/wickedness, Acts 8:22, so can one NOT repent of his sin/wickedness and be saved anyway? No.

One can believe yet not repent and still be lost. James says the devils believe yet they are not saved for their belief only does not include repentance, they believe but refuse to repent so their belief only cannot save them. The Jews believed in God [definitely not atheists] but would not repent, other than a remnant in Acts 2. Those that would not repent will be lost even though they believe in God.

Acts 2:38 puts repentance BEFORE remission of sins...no repentance = no remission of sins
Acts 3:19 puts repentance BEFORE one can be converted...no repentance = not converted
Acts 26:20 one repents first then turns to God...no repentance = not turned to God.

ACts 26:20>.... and do works meet for repentance." No works = not repented. "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Lk 6:46. Jesus said to repent or perish, ,LK 13:3,5. Now how can one claim they have repented when they have not done the things the Lord says? Not possible.
 
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Mar 12, 2014
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Repentance is not a work of man, it is a gift of God (Acts 5:31). Therefore, repentance cannot be a requirement for obtaining mercy. Actually, because of God's mercy and goodness men are persuaded and enabled to repent (Rom. 2:4).

Acts 26:20 "But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance."

In Mt 12:41 Jesus said Nineveh repented and in Jonah 3 we see the king of Nineveh led the city to repent in sackcloth and ashes and verse 10 says "
And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not." Nineveh's repentance was a work that God saw.

Acts 5:31 God did not force Israel to repent but gave them, granted them the opportunity to repent. Through Christ's death men now have been granted the opportunity to repent of his sins. Only a remnant of fleshly Israel in Acts 2 obeyed and repented per Peter's command to repent, verse 38. If fact the imperative mood of "repent" in Acts 2:38 implies both the ability and responsibilty of man to obey by repenting. Why command men to repent if they cannot or have not been granted the opportunity to repent?

Even though Rom 9:15 does not give a basis to whom God will or will not have mercy that basis can be found in other passages as Jer 18:8,10 where it depends of men repent if they receive mercy from God or not. Again, God owed nothing to the king of Nineveh but that king repented and God did not destroy Nineveh as He said he would but repented and showed mercy to Nineveh. On the other hand another king, Pharaoh,God did not owe him anything either, but this king would not repent and obey God so he did not receive mercy. It is not some "unknown" reason or randomness that God has mercy upon some and not others.