Conditional Salvation

[Jackson123]

you are trying to prove that faith is the one thing that is the requirement for salvation.....but the scripture says it is by grace through faith in Christ...and Christ says to obey his words....
you reject scripture to be comforted in your doctrine....look how you make a list...when all these things happen simultaneously.....faith without works is dead....
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Wherefore, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]but declared both to them of Damascus first and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the country of Judaea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, doing works worthy of repentance.

you can't say you have faith and do nothing.......those who believe and is baptised shall be saved.....

Good work, obey and so forth is impossible produce by branch itself.

Branch must have Faith first, then abide to the tree, than produce fruit in the form of good work, obey and so forth.

In other word, faith in Jesus is the root of salvation then Jesus help this faith full servant to do work.

Our part is just decide to have a faith to Him.

When you said salvation require work it mean you must supply with good work + faith before save/in order to be save.

that not what Jesus said. Jesus said you can't produce good work by yourself. Good work is product of the vine. the branch only channel not producer.

 

[tribesman]

Repentance is a condition to be saved for the impenitent are lost, Lk 13:3,5; Rom 2:4,5.


Rom 9:15 does not give the basis as to why God has mercy upon some and not others but that does not mean there is no basis at all.

Jer 18:8,10 shows that repentance is the basis as if God will have mercy or not. Jonah 3, God said He would destroy Nineveh in 40 days, yet Nineveh repented and God saw thier works/repentance " and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Could Spurgeon could not explain why "God repented"?

Do you mean that God is not all-knowing and omnipotent? That He had to learn something about the ninevites, thereby changing His mind?

 

[Jackson123]

Originally Posted by SeaBass

Repentance is a condition to be saved for the impenitent are lost, Lk 13:3,5; Rom 2:4,5.


Rom 9:15 does not give the basis as to why God has mercy upon some and not others but that does not mean there is no basis at all.

Jer 18:8,10 shows that repentance is the basis as if God will have mercy or not. Jonah 3, God said He would destroy Nineveh in 40 days, yet Nineveh repented and God saw thier works/repentance " and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Could Spurgeon could not explain why "God repented"?





And repentance start with faith in Jesus.

If you don't believe /don't have faith that Jesus will forgive you if you repent, why you repent?

When you have faith in Jesus, you will abide in Him than you will bear fruit.
And the fruit is repent, obedient, and so forth.

Don't confuse yourself between requirement of salvation and the fruit of faith.

 

[newbirth]

Good work, obey and so forth is impossible produce by branch itself.

Branch must have Faith first, then abide to the tree, than produce fruit in the form of good work, obey and so forth.

In other word, faith in Jesus is the root of salvation then Jesus help this faith full servant to do work.

Our part is just decide to have a faith to Him.

When you said salvation require work it mean you must supply with good work + faith before save/in order to be save.

that not what Jesus said. Jesus said you can't produce good work by yourself. Good work is product of the vine. the branch only channel not producer.

this is where you are wrong...

Our part is just decide to have a faith to Him.

where did you get that faith from? Faith comes by hearing the word of God.....Everybody hears...but it is those who do what they hear are of faith....

 

[Jackson123]

this is where you are wrong... where did you get that faith from? Faith comes by hearing the word of God.....Everybody hears...but it is those who do what they hear are of faith....

What is definition of faith?

Faith come from hearing the word.

but not every body who hearing the word decide to believe.

who decide? no body force you to decide to believe. You, yourself decide either to believe the word or not.

When you decide to believe mean you decide to make Jesus as your leader, and you abide in Him, than fruit show up.

You can't bear the fruit unless you have a faith to abide in Him.

You can produce obedience or other good fruit unless you have a faith in Him first and abide in Him.

Our work not produce salvation, our faith is.

 

[newbirth]

What is definition of faith?

Faith come from hearing the word.

but not every body who hearing the word decide to believe.

who decide? no body force you to decide to believe. You, yourself decide either to believe the word or not.

When you decide to believe mean you decide to make Jesus as your leader, and you abide in Him, than fruit show up.

You can't bear the fruit unless you have a faith to abide in Him.

You can produce obedience or other good fruit unless you have a faith in Him first and abide in Him.

Our work not produce salvation, our faith is.

if you decide to make Jesus your leader...it means you do as he says ....what do you think it means to abide?....and what do you mean by fruit show up....you have to bring forth fruit.....
[SUP]19 [/SUP]“Therefore, O King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, [SUP]20 [/SUP]but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.

 

[SeaBass]

can you be disowned by you Heavenly Father?

Num 14:12 "I will smite them with the pestilence, and disinherit them, and will make of thee a greater nation and mightier than they."

 

[SeaBass]

conditional salvation is based on the false belief that you are saving yourself.... instead of faith that it is God who saves you.

Salvation is two sided. Being saved requires BOTH man's faithfulness to God and God's faithfulness to man. Those that follow the teaching of eternal security quote verses that speak of God's faithfulness to man but not about man's faithfulness to God. Nowhere did God ever say He would remain faithful to save those that become unfaithful to him.

 

[SeaBass]

God chastens those He loves:

Revelation 3

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— [SUP]18 [/SUP]I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. [SUP]19 [/SUP]As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.

Faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross and the remission of sins through His shed blood.

What happens if the ones Christ chastens is not zealous and will not repent?

In Rev 3 those at Laodicea had become lost, Christ had spewed them out of his mouth. They had put Christ out of His own church leaving Christ knocking asking to be let back in.

 

[SeaBass]

Some people believe one save always save, some people don't. It another subject brother. But now we focus if the salvation by faith alone or work.

We can't do any good before have a faith to Jesus, branch can't bear the fruit by itself. How you believe work requirement for salvation rather than as a result/fruit of faith in Jesus.

The subject of this thread is "Conditional Salvation" and that is why I made the post from Jn 15 to show salvation is conditional..."Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: "

Eternal security says it is impossible for the branch to be taken away even if it does not bear fruit. Christ says it can be taken away, will be taken away if it bears no fruit..

 

[SeaBass]

Do you mean that God is not all-knowing and omnipotent? That He had to learn something about the ninevites, thereby changing His mind?

No, my post was to show that God extends His mercy conditionally - depending upon if man repents or not, Jer 18:8,10.

 

[SeaBass]

And repentance start with faith in Jesus.

If you don't believe /don't have faith that Jesus will forgive you if you repent, why you repent?

When you have faith in Jesus, you will abide in Him than you will bear fruit.
And the fruit is repent, obedient, and so forth.

Don't confuse yourself between requirement of salvation and the fruit of faith.

Faith includes repentance. Faith without repentance is a dead faith.

 

[john832]

Do you mean that God is not all-knowing and omnipotent? That He had to learn something about the ninevites, thereby changing His mind?

Deu 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.

If He already knew, why do this?

 

[ChristIsGod]

Deu 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.

If He already knew, why do this?

What God is saying is - that 'they' would know - not that He would know. He wants them to see themselves in truth of how they reacted during their exile, and in regards to the given commandments, etc..

He 'tries' us as well, [trials of our faith] so that we know what's truly in our heart and to produce patience, endurance, more faith, etc.

I don't know what's 'in' me until someone does something 'to' me. [that's for sure :] We're all working & being worked over, so to speak. We surprise ourselves by our reactions to deprivation, being insulted by someone, not getting what we hoped for and so forth. Our condition shows through, through trials. Yes, He already knows but needs to show 'us'.

 

[Jackson123]

if you decide to make Jesus your leader...it means you do as he says ....what do you think it means to abide?....and what do you mean by fruit show up....you have to bring forth fruit.....
[SUP]19 [/SUP]“Therefore, O King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, [SUP]20 [/SUP]but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.

Yes, to make Him as a leader mean believe in Him, mean faith.

That will make us to do what He said as a fruit of believe.

If we die in the same second and don't have a time to help the needy than we still go to heaven because work is not the requirement.

this is the requirement:

[h=1]John 3:16King James Version (KJV)[/h]16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[Jackson123]

Faith includes repentance. Faith without repentance is a dead faith.

This is the definition of faith. I believe repentance is the fruit of faith, not include in the definition bellow.

Hebrews 11:1​

New International Version
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

 

[Jackson123]

The subject of this thread is "Conditional Salvation" and that is why I made the post from Jn 15 to show salvation is conditional..."Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: "

Eternal security says it is impossible for the branch to be taken away even if it does not bear fruit. Christ says it can be taken away, will be taken away if it bears no fruit..

I think Eternal security believe if that person ever save, he may cut off one day but he will re abide before he die.

 

[Elin]

The subject of this thread is "Conditional Salvation" and that is why I made the post from Jn 15 to show salvation is conditional..."Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: "

Eternal security says it is impossible for the branch to be taken away even if it does not bear fruit. Christ says it can be taken away, will be taken away if it bears no fruit..

Scripture often speaks of professors (professing faith, but not possessing faith)
as being in the kingdom, but not of the kingdom, and whom Jesus takes away (Jn 15:2).

See parables of Mt 13; Lk 8:13; Jn 8:30-31; Gal 5:4; Heb 6:4-6, 10:29; 2Pe 1:19, 2:20-22.

 

[Elin]

Faith includes repentance. Faith without repentance is a dead faith.

"Repentance" is a change of mind.

Faith is repenting of unbelief, and turning to belief.

 

[SeaBass]

This is the definition of faith. I believe repentance is the fruit of faith, not include in the definition bellow.

Hebrews 11:1​

New International Version
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

Are you saying those that refuse to repent will be saved anyway?