Once saved, is sin ok?
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Sin is why one is lost. Yet if it is impossible for a Christian to be lost then either sin does not exist or that Christian must be perfectly sinless. So why would God chastise a Christian when sin does not exist or when that Christian is perfectly sinless?
So according to your man-made theology 1 Jn 1:7 is now heresy.
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No..it is according to your misguided Campbellism dude.....IT IS THE SPIRIT that is BORN AGAIN and that SPIRIT IS BOUND IN A FALLEN SINFUL BODY and YOU fail to understand this because YOUR FAITH IS NOT IN JESUS and HIS WORK, but rather YOUR OWN ABILITIES......SO...keep on following the words of man straight to the pit.....BEST thing you can do is take any work by CAMPBELL and place it next to the toilet when you run out of paper as HIS doctrine which you subscribe to will take you to the pit!
I guess you forgot to read ALL of my post!
As for whether we are saved by works of the law, I was just reading this in my Bible last night.
"For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin." Romans 3:28
In my opinion, this nonsense about living without sin, means the same as somehow trying to please God by our works.
God knows we are sinners. He is working on us by the power of the Holy Spirit. He is transforming us for his glory. He is conforming us to the image of his Son.
"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.[SUP]30 [/SUP]And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." Romans 8:29-30
This very important passage in Romans 8 says it all. It tells us God foreknew, then he called, then he justified, then he glorified. So God has an effectual calling, which saves us and predestines us to be saved. The completion of this sanctification process is when we see Jesus face to face, either at his Second Coming or when we die and God glorifies us.
I think it is so sad when people use willful sinning as a reason why a person can lose their salvation, which means our salvation is not based on the God of all creation, but rather our efforts! This "pulling oneself up by the bootstraps" is a hideous doctrine by works. It is not the salvation spoken of in the Bible.
And do not call me antinomian! I started my post with the importance of obeying Christ in all things. I guess you need a few more verses, which show we can NOT live a perfect life!
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." 1 John 1:7-10
But then, I already said this, but you ignored the Bible verses I posted!
There are none so blind as those who will not see! Or read the whole Bible, instead of convoluted and false doctrines in in a church which cherry picks verses out of context to make their evil doctrines, which put people in fear of losing their salvation, instead of encouraging a deeper and deeper walk with Christ, who is molding and transforming us to do the work he has called us to do in this lifetime.
We WALK with Christ.
"We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life." Romans 6:4
The word WALK is περιπατοῦσιν (peripatousin) in Greek. It means walk/live! I struggled with that dual definition, until I realized that Christ is walking with us on a journey from justification to glorification, which is how we live! So no, don't sin but if you do, we do need to confess our sins, and not lie and try and deceive others that we are perfect!
As for whether we are saved by works of the law, I was just reading this in my Bible last night.
"For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin." Romans 3:28
In my opinion, this nonsense about living without sin, means the same as somehow trying to please God by our works.
God knows we are sinners. He is working on us by the power of the Holy Spirit. He is transforming us for his glory. He is conforming us to the image of his Son.
"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.[SUP]30 [/SUP]And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." Romans 8:29-30
This very important passage in Romans 8 says it all. It tells us God foreknew, then he called, then he justified, then he glorified. So God has an effectual calling, which saves us and predestines us to be saved. The completion of this sanctification process is when we see Jesus face to face, either at his Second Coming or when we die and God glorifies us.
I think it is so sad when people use willful sinning as a reason why a person can lose their salvation, which means our salvation is not based on the God of all creation, but rather our efforts! This "pulling oneself up by the bootstraps" is a hideous doctrine by works. It is not the salvation spoken of in the Bible.
And do not call me antinomian! I started my post with the importance of obeying Christ in all things. I guess you need a few more verses, which show we can NOT live a perfect life!
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." 1 John 1:7-10
But then, I already said this, but you ignored the Bible verses I posted!
There are none so blind as those who will not see! Or read the whole Bible, instead of convoluted and false doctrines in in a church which cherry picks verses out of context to make their evil doctrines, which put people in fear of losing their salvation, instead of encouraging a deeper and deeper walk with Christ, who is molding and transforming us to do the work he has called us to do in this lifetime.
We WALK with Christ.
"We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life." Romans 6:4
The word WALK is περιπατοῦσιν (peripatousin) in Greek. It means walk/live! I struggled with that dual definition, until I realized that Christ is walking with us on a journey from justification to glorification, which is how we live! So no, don't sin but if you do, we do need to confess our sins, and not lie and try and deceive others that we are perfect!
Christians are no longer under the condemnation of sin. They have eternal life as promised by Christ. Christians do sin but as they mature in the Lord they ought to sin less. We have two natures and they war against each other. When I sin as a Christian I have the Holy Spirit alive in my heart to bring conviction and lead me to confess and repent of my sin. If I ignore the Holy Spirit and persist in my sin I will be chastised by God. Not to the loss of salvation but to experience tribulation of disobedience. David sinned and lost a child. If I am not chastened by God then I am not a son.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
What the modern church contends for...
What the early church contended against...
Irenaeus refuting Gnosticism, Against Heresies, Chapter 6
http://holybooks.lichtenbergpress.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/Ante-Nicene-Fathers-Vol-1.pdf
Irenaeus alluding to the fact that the early Christian's guarded themselves against sinning in even thought and word which alines with John...
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Because...
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
This last verse is utterly denied in modern theology because it is taught that no-one can choose the way of escape all the time. Anyone who contends that they choose the way of escape every single time will generally be labelled a liar and treated with contempt by religious people today.
Ignatious wrote...
Ignatius, Letter to the Ephesians, Ch. 8
holybooks.lichtenbergpress.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/Ante-Nicene-Fathers-Vol-1.pdf
How many teach such a thing today? Very few. Instead today deeds and belief are disconnected whereby one can be sinning in thought, word and deed and yet still be in a state of belief. That is Gnosticism.
Gnosticism has completely infected the modern church and the people, in general, appear to love it.
Types and shadows...
Jer 12:7 I have forsaken mine house, I have left mine heritage; I have given the dearly beloved of my soul into the hand of her enemies.
Jer 12:8 Mine heritage is unto me as a lion in the forest; it crieth out against me: therefore have I hated it.
Jer 12:9 Mine heritage is unto me as a speckled bird, the birds round about are against her; come ye, assemble all the beasts of the field, come to devour.
Jer 12:10 Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.
Jer 12:11 They have made it desolate, and being desolate it mourneth unto me; the whole land is made desolate, because no man layeth it to heart.
What the early church contended against...
Irenaeus refuting Gnosticism, Against Heresies, Chapter 6
http://holybooks.lichtenbergpress.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/Ante-Nicene-Fathers-Vol-1.pdf
Irenaeus alluding to the fact that the early Christian's guarded themselves against sinning in even thought and word which alines with John...
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Because...
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
This last verse is utterly denied in modern theology because it is taught that no-one can choose the way of escape all the time. Anyone who contends that they choose the way of escape every single time will generally be labelled a liar and treated with contempt by religious people today.
Ignatious wrote...
Ignatius, Letter to the Ephesians, Ch. 8
holybooks.lichtenbergpress.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/Ante-Nicene-Fathers-Vol-1.pdf
How many teach such a thing today? Very few. Instead today deeds and belief are disconnected whereby one can be sinning in thought, word and deed and yet still be in a state of belief. That is Gnosticism.
Gnosticism has completely infected the modern church and the people, in general, appear to love it.
Types and shadows...
Jer 12:7 I have forsaken mine house, I have left mine heritage; I have given the dearly beloved of my soul into the hand of her enemies.
Jer 12:8 Mine heritage is unto me as a lion in the forest; it crieth out against me: therefore have I hated it.
Jer 12:9 Mine heritage is unto me as a speckled bird, the birds round about are against her; come ye, assemble all the beasts of the field, come to devour.
Jer 12:10 Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.
Jer 12:11 They have made it desolate, and being desolate it mourneth unto me; the whole land is made desolate, because no man layeth it to heart.
Now your saying we're all predestined, this isn't for His elect... We are not predestined Angela, if we don't do as God wants us to do(live righteous), our paths will go where they weren't supposed to go. Do you think Jesus wanted for me to be a convicted felon? I'm sure He didn't, He wanted me to do the right thing, I didn't and paid for it, more over then most. I never said I am sinless, but I'm no sinner, I'm christian, fighting sin and evil, giving God the glory to triumphs. We are not all elect Angela, this would mean Christ died in vain. I see people like to mix everyday worldly people with christian, they're totally different, one is aware of the Holy Spirit and conscious(can see) the other is blind and doesn't know about God (blind). I'm not trying to scare anyone, and I'm not damning anyone to hell, I know that we will stumble, but what is the intent and the deliberateness of said sin, only The Lord knows, and only He has said judgment over such, I'm just saying to get saved by Jesus, and turn back, fall asleep, is dangerous for ones own life.
J
A child of God does not practice sin, is a new creature, but is not sinless. If this state were possible in the flesh, for those other than our Lord Jesus, there'd have been no need for His atonement work, to satisfy the justice required of our Holy God: we can't wash ourselves clean in this flesh, period, by any means. I defy one of you to say you've not had a hateful or lustful thought, even many times, since being saved; actually, have any complete control over your thoughts now, which our Lord stated are the same as murder or adultery, for instance. There isn't even enough OT law written, to cover all our sin, which sin is ALL things that fall short of holy, Godly perfection. We will not put on the incorruptible until the first resurrection. Read Romans 7, the predicament of the corruptible flesh very clear, versus walking in faith, in the Spirit, with Christ.
Gnosticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The tenets of Gnosticism force people who claim they believe the Bible to actually deny certain parts of the Bible when they conflict with their Gnostic beliefs.
1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
Peter does not say Christian's "sin less," rather he says "ceased from sin." That statement simply cannot be accepted by those of a Gnostic persuasion (whether they label their Gnosticism as Christianity or not is irrelevant) because they view the flesh itself as evil and sinning is connected to being present in a flesh body. Thus as long as the flesh body is present then sin will be present. Sin is redefined to be some kind of ethereal or material substance connected to the body as opposed to a moral issue wrought from the exercise of the will. This subtle redefinition of sin redefines everything that is built upon it.
John was very clear when he wrote...
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
John taught that the outward manifest conduct bore witness as to whether one was a child of God or a child of the devil. It is in the DOING that reveals whether one is righteous or wicked...
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
This is why God judges people upon their DEEDS...
Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Those who teach that Christian's "sin less" are defending sin because they are making an allowance for rebellion in salvation, just "less rebellion." If we take that to its logical outcome we could have a serial killer who becomes a Christian and simply "murder less" over time. Satan does not care if people sin less because they are still sinning and Satan knows that the wages of sin is death, so long as one keeps sinning unto death, whether a little or a lot, the end is still death and destruction.
Here is the perfect example of someone contending for the fact that one can be in rebellion to God and still be "saved." What is the rebel saved from? Certainly not sin because they are still a servant of sin. No. In the mind of these people salvation is merely a pardon for wicked people. They have the "forgiveness of sin without a true "cleansing of sin."
It is the cleansing in the Bible they deny. They teach that salvation only encompasses being forgiven not a cleansing from filth. It is all a delusion these people are under. The best proof for this delusion is to bring up the subject of HEART PURITY with these people. They simply cannot discuss it because any discussion on genuine heart purity, a clean heart, genuine love from a pure heart, that concept utterly refutes their notion of "being saved and still wicked." It is Gnosticism which teaches one can be "still wicked" and "saved at the same time." That is DUAL NATURE teaching where they blame "still wicked" on the flesh body and teach that is inevitable, while they teach that the "spirit is POSITIONALLY in Christ" and therefore cannot be touched. It is pure folly, it is pure nonsense, and in order to believe it one must throw reason right out the window and ignore facts.
Peter taught that those whom are born again are PURE.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
These deceived people will quote verses like 1Pet 1:23 but they will ALWAYS omit verses like 1Pe 1:22 because OBEDIENCE TO THE TRUTH is OPTIONAL and even IMPOSSIBLE because they blame the flesh body for their sin, not their choices. Thus their religion is a total denial of personal responsibility for one's own conduct. If one denies they are personally responsible for their rebellion to God then it is impossible to repent. Impossible.
The tenets of Gnosticism force people who claim they believe the Bible to actually deny certain parts of the Bible when they conflict with their Gnostic beliefs.
1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
Peter does not say Christian's "sin less," rather he says "ceased from sin." That statement simply cannot be accepted by those of a Gnostic persuasion (whether they label their Gnosticism as Christianity or not is irrelevant) because they view the flesh itself as evil and sinning is connected to being present in a flesh body. Thus as long as the flesh body is present then sin will be present. Sin is redefined to be some kind of ethereal or material substance connected to the body as opposed to a moral issue wrought from the exercise of the will. This subtle redefinition of sin redefines everything that is built upon it.
John was very clear when he wrote...
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
John taught that the outward manifest conduct bore witness as to whether one was a child of God or a child of the devil. It is in the DOING that reveals whether one is righteous or wicked...
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
This is why God judges people upon their DEEDS...
Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Those who teach that Christian's "sin less" are defending sin because they are making an allowance for rebellion in salvation, just "less rebellion." If we take that to its logical outcome we could have a serial killer who becomes a Christian and simply "murder less" over time. Satan does not care if people sin less because they are still sinning and Satan knows that the wages of sin is death, so long as one keeps sinning unto death, whether a little or a lot, the end is still death and destruction.
Here is the perfect example of someone contending for the fact that one can be in rebellion to God and still be "saved." What is the rebel saved from? Certainly not sin because they are still a servant of sin. No. In the mind of these people salvation is merely a pardon for wicked people. They have the "forgiveness of sin without a true "cleansing of sin."
It is the cleansing in the Bible they deny. They teach that salvation only encompasses being forgiven not a cleansing from filth. It is all a delusion these people are under. The best proof for this delusion is to bring up the subject of HEART PURITY with these people. They simply cannot discuss it because any discussion on genuine heart purity, a clean heart, genuine love from a pure heart, that concept utterly refutes their notion of "being saved and still wicked." It is Gnosticism which teaches one can be "still wicked" and "saved at the same time." That is DUAL NATURE teaching where they blame "still wicked" on the flesh body and teach that is inevitable, while they teach that the "spirit is POSITIONALLY in Christ" and therefore cannot be touched. It is pure folly, it is pure nonsense, and in order to believe it one must throw reason right out the window and ignore facts.
Peter taught that those whom are born again are PURE.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
These deceived people will quote verses like 1Pet 1:23 but they will ALWAYS omit verses like 1Pe 1:22 because OBEDIENCE TO THE TRUTH is OPTIONAL and even IMPOSSIBLE because they blame the flesh body for their sin, not their choices. Thus their religion is a total denial of personal responsibility for one's own conduct. If one denies they are personally responsible for their rebellion to God then it is impossible to repent. Impossible.
A
My heart cries for those who truly truly wanted to know God and were hungry for truth, those who were broken and tired by the worlds struggles. To think they thought they found truth but instead found people who used snippets of the bible warped it within an inch of truth and fed it to people who didnt know any better. .. now they are lost.
J
BUT (just one of those all caps things...), any believer with the Holy Spirit will be guided into truth. The deceived, whatever stripe, are not believers and deceived. The seeking child of God will find truth, the cult creep show notwithstanding. Where man fails, God succeeds; and where man rules, God overrules. We must never underestimate the mighty power of the Holy Spirit, given to all believers! (And not give others undue credit, for a power they don't even have. I believe they mainly consist of the lost, in agreement with others lost, delude themselves they accomplish anything.)
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
We have free will, we choose, it's a gift of choice, why would God make people love Him, real love is out of choice, it's like making your daughter be with a man in marriage, this is not love, a women should have the choice to love who she wants, as we have the choice to love God/Jesus and the commandments, or worship before the calf. Did Moses give them a choice .. Or command them to worship God? They all have a choice, as do we.