Once saved, is sin ok?
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Eze 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
Eze 9:5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
Eze 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
Eze 9:5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
Eze 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
The bible says that just men were made perfect
Hebrews 12:23
king james version(kjv)
23.)To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
But in
Matthew 19:21
king james version(kjv)
21.)Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If we are already made perfect in our spirits then what part of the rich young ruler was JESUS talking about?
we know that GOD does not go against himself so how do you harmonize these two scriptures.
I think one is talking about the spirit and one is talking about the soul/mind....renewing/sanctification.
Hebrews 12:23
king james version(kjv)
23.)To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
But in
Matthew 19:21
king james version(kjv)
21.)Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If we are already made perfect in our spirits then what part of the rich young ruler was JESUS talking about?
we know that GOD does not go against himself so how do you harmonize these two scriptures.
I think one is talking about the spirit and one is talking about the soul/mind....renewing/sanctification.
I'm still trying to catch up, but noticed this last post. In each case "perfect" is "completed", which for God is Christ in us. The rich young ruler was judged by Jesus to be "just" in terms any Jew would comprehend, but that isn't quite enough for salvation. "Justness" in men is still living by the flesh, not by faith by the Spirit of God. Had he obeyed and followed Jesus, then and only then could he have been made "perfect".
There were many "just men" on record, such as Abraham. But Abraham was not made perfect, did not receive the bulk of God's promises in his lifetime. He has been made perfect in Christ along with others that pleased God by faith.
Stopping at the milestone of being born again spiritually doesn't save the soul and body. From that perfection we must pursue the balance of perfection in Christ, undergoing renewal of the mind until it conforms to the mind that was in Jesus. Well, that won't happen until first being spiritually born again. From there it takes consumption of all that Jesus is, gotten by the word of God in the ears.
By context of many scriptures, a "sinner" doesn't ask forgiveness from God. I know that from experience too. A saint that does sin does that asks for forgiveness without hesitation. He's been given a whole new attitude about doing anything that separates him from the presence of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit will NOT be a partner in sin or crime.
I am reminded of a terrible happening in my early Christian walk, while a member of a church whose pastor ordered all to not pursue any teaching outside that church. He was attempting to keep folks from going after Word of Faith. He believed it was a sin to put any demand or pressure on God by invoking scriptures that could force God to obey us in the terms of those scriptures. Our last meeting was concluded by the chairman of the deacons stating words I can't remove from memory. "There you have it, brethren. We'll vote now concerning those people that are in rebellion. I will say one last thing about that. I am Saved, Secure, and Satisfied. I don't need anything from outside this building. You should be also. If not, there's the door. Leave and don't come back!"
Before the vote happened I stood and said "You have also said from that pulpit another time before, your other three S doctrine, "Saved to Sin Securely". That is apparently your idea of "once saved always saved", no matter what you do. God will not back that up. As for me and my household, we go without a vote." Half the congregation stood and left. There were no tithers left. All the Sunday school teachers left. The church that remained voted "leave". We began to get urgent letters asking all members to please contribute to the church fund. I wrote back to "please remove us from your membership roll". Another denomination possessed the building a few years later. Those that left started a non-denominational church, avoiding the then current "Charismatic" movement theme. Charismatics joined us, but our mission statement was to preach the word only without emphasis on popular topics. Sermons and lessons amounted to reading the Bible aloud and teaching people to study out the meanings using scriptures, not pre-determined man's doctrines.
Salvation is rooted in Christ's ability to change our attitude towards sin, to stop rebelling against God's holiness, then to pursue the mind of Christ in all things. Yes, Paul did admit he held title to "Chief of sinners", a murderer of Christians. God has been faithful to record the deeds of sin and of righteousness of His servants, but what sin is recorded against Paul after his Damascus encounter with Jesus? He stopped BEING a sinner, then became a BE-ER of righteousness between Romans 7 and 8. Paul agreed with John that though we sin, we are not given to sin. Sin interrupts our pursuit of the righteousness of Christ, demanding our constant repentance. By not being a sinner I liken that to wearing a new pair of boots across a pasture. I should have known, my new boots would be anointed with a wet cow pattie. A Christian must learn to live in two very different worlds simultaneously until rescued out, that of the old way, the "flesh", and the new way of Jesus Christ, life in the Spirit.
There were many "just men" on record, such as Abraham. But Abraham was not made perfect, did not receive the bulk of God's promises in his lifetime. He has been made perfect in Christ along with others that pleased God by faith.
Stopping at the milestone of being born again spiritually doesn't save the soul and body. From that perfection we must pursue the balance of perfection in Christ, undergoing renewal of the mind until it conforms to the mind that was in Jesus. Well, that won't happen until first being spiritually born again. From there it takes consumption of all that Jesus is, gotten by the word of God in the ears.
By context of many scriptures, a "sinner" doesn't ask forgiveness from God. I know that from experience too. A saint that does sin does that asks for forgiveness without hesitation. He's been given a whole new attitude about doing anything that separates him from the presence of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit will NOT be a partner in sin or crime.
I am reminded of a terrible happening in my early Christian walk, while a member of a church whose pastor ordered all to not pursue any teaching outside that church. He was attempting to keep folks from going after Word of Faith. He believed it was a sin to put any demand or pressure on God by invoking scriptures that could force God to obey us in the terms of those scriptures. Our last meeting was concluded by the chairman of the deacons stating words I can't remove from memory. "There you have it, brethren. We'll vote now concerning those people that are in rebellion. I will say one last thing about that. I am Saved, Secure, and Satisfied. I don't need anything from outside this building. You should be also. If not, there's the door. Leave and don't come back!"
Before the vote happened I stood and said "You have also said from that pulpit another time before, your other three S doctrine, "Saved to Sin Securely". That is apparently your idea of "once saved always saved", no matter what you do. God will not back that up. As for me and my household, we go without a vote." Half the congregation stood and left. There were no tithers left. All the Sunday school teachers left. The church that remained voted "leave". We began to get urgent letters asking all members to please contribute to the church fund. I wrote back to "please remove us from your membership roll". Another denomination possessed the building a few years later. Those that left started a non-denominational church, avoiding the then current "Charismatic" movement theme. Charismatics joined us, but our mission statement was to preach the word only without emphasis on popular topics. Sermons and lessons amounted to reading the Bible aloud and teaching people to study out the meanings using scriptures, not pre-determined man's doctrines.
Salvation is rooted in Christ's ability to change our attitude towards sin, to stop rebelling against God's holiness, then to pursue the mind of Christ in all things. Yes, Paul did admit he held title to "Chief of sinners", a murderer of Christians. God has been faithful to record the deeds of sin and of righteousness of His servants, but what sin is recorded against Paul after his Damascus encounter with Jesus? He stopped BEING a sinner, then became a BE-ER of righteousness between Romans 7 and 8. Paul agreed with John that though we sin, we are not given to sin. Sin interrupts our pursuit of the righteousness of Christ, demanding our constant repentance. By not being a sinner I liken that to wearing a new pair of boots across a pasture. I should have known, my new boots would be anointed with a wet cow pattie. A Christian must learn to live in two very different worlds simultaneously until rescued out, that of the old way, the "flesh", and the new way of Jesus Christ, life in the Spirit.
Ok but first there has to be a choice, I understand the we fall down but we get up and strive towards perfection... What about the servants " of the world " ? Example : Let's say there's a white collar thief or stripper comes to Christ ... They accept Christ.. There's no going back to stripping or selling fraudulent stocks, your now a servant to Christ.. We may fall, but we are no longer sinners of the world, we are to serve righteousness ... No more serving sin, either we will do are best and make wise decisions to counter the way we were living sinful lives, or we will go back to drug dealing, robbing, fake acting, and so fourth... Can't have it both ways, ... Either we will serve sin or Christ..
J
The mark is God giving those men the mind of Christ. The city is God$s people (we are a city set on a hill). ONLY those wo are RIGHT NOW crying out to God for their sins will be spared. Most of Christianity that trust in their doctrines and not God are being destroyed. The first to go are the preachers and religious teachers. THIS IS HAPPENING --- NOW.