100 Percent Proof that there is No Rapture

[Kerry]

buddy I hope you have your seat belt on because this topic is one crazy ride, I have been in many rapture debates and I learned there is simply no debating it ppl will believe what they believe and good luck changing their minds

amen and amen

 

[Butch5]

Okay so ya'll gonna make it about that, Then why didn't God make Lot go through the destruction?

God didn't take Lot out the world. He never took His people out of the world when He brought judgment. He didn't take Noah out of the world, not the Israelites etc, I don't know why Christians believe that God is going to take them out of the world before the Tribulation.

 

[Anonimous]

God didn't take Lot out the world. He never took His people out of the world when He brought judgment. He didn't take Noah out of the world, not the Israelites etc, I don't know why Christians believe that God is going to take them out of the world before the Tribulation.

He promised that He would be "with us" through trouble... not remove us from it.

 

[Chopper]

A man made word can cause someone to fall for the deception because most Christians never actually study the Bible. ...

How little do so few realize the truth of what is being said in this sentence.
He tells us to seek Him with all our hearts, and in doing so, He will reveal himself to us.
Do not take the word of man over the Word of Yah, seek Him because you truly want to know Him.
When you truly seek Him, you will learn the Love in Him that is immeasurable.

 

[Kerry]

So why didn't he destroy Sodom while lot was in it, why did He remove Lot?

 

[Jason0047]

Pre-Trib Rapture:

Short Version:

There are some interesting things to notice that are different about the Rapture (i.e. The Appearing) and the Second Coming.

At the rapture, only those who are looking for him will see him:

• Hebrews 9:28 ESV

So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

​

Now contrast that with the second coming to the earth

• Revelation 1:7

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.​

​

At the rapture, Jesus comes FOR His church :

• 1 Thessalonians 4:17

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord​

​

• John 14:3 -

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also​

​

However, at the second coming (after the tribulation period) , Christ comes WITH His saints.

• Jude 1:14

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints​

​

• Revelation 19:14

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean

​

​

At the rapture, the LORD calls His church up to a wedding/marriage

• Matthew 25:10

And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.​

​

But at the second coming to earth, He is returning from a wedding

• Luke 12:36

And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.​

​

 

[Anonimous]

God didn't take Lot out the world. He never took His people out of the world when He brought judgment. He didn't take Noah out of the world, not the Israelites etc, I don't know why Christians believe that God is going to take them out of the world before the Tribulation.

I wonder if it could be that it's easier to look forward to escaping than it is to consider that their faith might be really tested. Could it be that this testing is what could be used to separate the sheep from the goats?

 

[veryelect]

HE removed Lot because Lot was righteous. HE didn't rapture Lot out, HE got him out of that city because that city was about to become toast!

 

[Kerry]

HE removed Lot because Lot was righteous. HE didn't rapture Lot out, HE got him out of that city because that city was about to become toast!

Think about what you just said

 

[Butch5]

I wonder if it could be that it's easier to look forward to escaping than it is to consider that their faith might be really tested. Could it be that this testing is what could be used to separate the sheep from the goats?

I agree, I think it's gonna be just like it was for the Jews. They were tested in the wilderness before going into the Promised Land and many didn't make it. I believe in the Tribulation there will be a the testing of the Church before Christ returns.

 

[veryelect]

Think about what you just said

What I said doesn't mean rapture. Lot was protected from The Wrath Of GOD and the evil that was going on in that city. Lot wasn't taken out before the evil in that city happened, he was taken out at the end, after the evil was there. Just like at the end time when we are protected. It is After the evil has already infested this earth that GOD'S Wrath will come. We will still be here also when the evil happens, but GOD'S Wrath won't be poured out on us, only on the evil.

 

[SoulWeaver]

It is very interesting how the rest of the Bible defines the gathering of saints:

Genesis 25:8 Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people.
Genesis 25:17 And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, an hundred and thirty and seven years: and he gave up the ghost and died; and was gathered unto his people.
Genesis 35:29 And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto his people, being old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him.
Genesis 49:29 And he charged them, and said unto them, I am to be gathered unto my people: bury me with my fathers in the cave that is in the field of Ephron the Hittite,
Numbers 20:26 And strip Aaron of his garments, and put them upon Eleazar his son: and Aaron shall be gathered unto his people, and shall die there.
Deuteronomy 32:50 And die in the mount whither thou goest up, and be gathered unto thy people; as Aaron thy brother died in mount Hor, and was gathered unto his people:
Judges 2:10 And also all that generation were gathered unto their fathers: and there arose another generation after them, which knew not the LORD, nor yet the works which he had done for Israel.

2 Kings 22:20 Behold therefore, I will gather thee unto thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered into thy grave in peace; and thine eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place. And they brought the king word again.
Isaiah 57:1 The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.

Job 27:19 The rich man shall lie down, but he shall not be gathered: he openeth his eyes, and he is not. --- the story about the rich man and Lazarus... Lazarus was gathered...

 

[Jason0047]

The Rapture:
(The 1st Rapture or Translation of the Saints):


Description of the Rapture:


• 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.​

• 1 Corinthians 15:51-53

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.​

Clues Concerning the Rapture:


• John 14:3

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.​

• Isaiah 26:20 NLT

Go home, my people, and lock your doors! Hide yourselves for a little while until the LORD’s anger has passed.​

• Matthew 25:10

And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.​

• Hebrews 9:28 ESV

So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.​

Promise of the Rapture:
(A Deliverance of the Wrath to Come):


• 1 Thessalonians 1:10

"And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."​

• 1 Thessalonians 5:9

"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,"​

Admonishes about being ready for the Rapture:
(In order to miss out on the 7 Year Tribulation):


• Luke 21:34-36

And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.​

• Revelation 3:10

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. ​

 

[veryelect]

It is very interesting how the rest of the Bible defines the gathering of saints:

Genesis 25:8 Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people.
Genesis 25:17 And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, an hundred and thirty and seven years: and he gave up the ghost and died; and was gathered unto his people.
Genesis 35:29 And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto his people, being old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him.
Genesis 49:29 And he charged them, and said unto them, I am to be gathered unto my people: bury me with my fathers in the cave that is in the field of Ephron the Hittite,
Numbers 20:26 And strip Aaron of his garments, and put them upon Eleazar his son: and Aaron shall be gathered unto his people, and shall die there.
Deuteronomy 32:50 And die in the mount whither thou goest up, and be gathered unto thy people; as Aaron thy brother died in mount Hor, and was gathered unto his people:
Judges 2:10 And also all that generation were gathered unto their fathers: and there arose another generation after them, which knew not the LORD, nor yet the works which he had done for Israel.

2 Kings 22:20 Behold therefore, I will gather thee unto thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered into thy grave in peace; and thine eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place. And they brought the king word again.
Isaiah 57:1 The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.

Job 27:19 The rich man shall lie down, but he shall not be gathered: he openeth his eyes, and he is not. --- the story about the rich man and Lazarus... Lazarus was gathered...

Those verses are out of context with the rapture discussion. Those verses are talking about who is gathered to their people, meaning, which side of the gulf they are on. Remember, that paradise currently has two sides, the good side and the bad side. Those that are gathered to their fathers (Abraham, etc.) are on the good side. Those that aren't are on the bad side. The gulf is not passable, therefore, those that are on the bad side are waiting for judgment or the Millennium.

 

[Jason0047]

The Second Coming of Christ:
(The Lord Appears in the Clouds Coming in Great Power & Glory):

• Revelation 16:15

The Sixth Vial (Part 3)

"Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."

​

• Revelation 1:7 NIV

Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him.

​

• Matthew 24:27

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

​

• Mark 13:26

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

​

•Luke 17:24

For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

​

• Luke 21:27

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

​

• Isaiah 26:21a NLT

Look! The LORD is coming from heaven to punish the people of the earth for their sins.

​

• Psalm 96:13 NKJV

For He is coming, for He is coming to judge the earth. He shall judge the world with righteousness

​

• Matthew 24:30b

And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn

​

• Revelation 19:11-13 and Revelation 19:15-16

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

​

• 1 Timothy 6:14 NLT and 1 Timothy 6:15 NKJV

Our Lord Jesus Christ comes again...
He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.


​

Certain Saints in Heaven Are Made Ready For The Marriage Supper of The Lamb:

• Revelation 19:6-8 HCS and Revelation 19:9 NIV

Then I heard something like the voice of a vast multitude, like the sound of cascading waters, and like the rumbling of loud thunder, saying:

"Hallelujah, because our Lord God, the Almighty, has begun to reign! Let us be glad, rejoice, and give Him glory, because the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has prepared herself. She was given fine linen to wear, bright and pure. For the fine linen represents the righteous acts of the saints."

Then the angel said to me,

“Write: ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!’”

​

The Lord Gathers His Elect For the Upcoming Battle:
(The Call to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb):
(The 2nd Rapture or Translation of the Saints):
(And The End of the Surviving Tribulation Saint's 1,335 Day of Testing):

• Luke 12:36

And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

​

Daniel 12:12 ISV and Daniel 12:12 NIV

Blessed is the one who perseveres...and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

​

• Revelation 14:16

And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

​

• Matthew 24:31

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

​

• Mark 13:27

And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

​

• Luke 17:34-37

"I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

And they answered and said unto him,

"Where, Lord?"

And he said unto them,

"Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

​

• Matthew 24:28

For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

​

• Revelation 19:17-18 and Revelation 19:14

And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying

"To all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto thesupper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great."

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

​

• Jude 1:14

Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

​

• Isaiah 31:4 NLT

The LORD of Heaven’s Armies will come down

​

• Isaiah 26:21b NLT

The earth will no longer hide those who have been killed. They will be brought out for all to see.



​

 

[Butch5]

The Rapture:
(The 1st Rapture or Translation of the Saints):


Description of the Rapture:


• 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.​

• 1 Corinthians 15:51-53

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.​

Clues Concerning the Rapture:


• John 14:3

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.​

• Isaiah 26:20 NLT

Go home, my people, and lock your doors! Hide yourselves for a little while until the LORD’s anger has passed.​

• Matthew 25:10

And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.​

• Hebrews 9:28 ESV

So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.​

Promise of the Rapture:
(A Deliverance of the Wrath to Come):


• 1 Thessalonians 1:10

"And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."​

• 1 Thessalonians 5:9

"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,"​

Admonishes about being ready for the Rapture:
(In order to miss out on the 7 Year Tribulation):


• Luke 21:34-36

And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.​

• Revelation 3:10

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. ​

Where does it say that being spared from wrath means being taken out of the world?

 

[Jason0047]

For those folks who are interested: Above, post #33 deals with the Pre-Trib Rapture. Post #35 deals with the Lord's 2nd Coming and the Gathering of the Elect for the Battle of Armageddon.

 

[SoulWeaver]

The gulf is not passable, therefore, those that are on the bad side are waiting for judgment or the Millennium.

Not sure what you're trying to say with that, sorry.
The verses I posted set out the pattern of what the gathering of His people seems to be. God does not change... He will keep gathering souls into the Kingdom of God. If you want to understand the New testament you must also look into the Old.
Not claiming if there will be, or not, rapture as people imagine it, just saying that the rest of the Bible always must be taken into consideration.
Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Those verses are out of context with the rapture discussion. Those verses are talking about who is gathered to their people, meaning, which side of the gulf they are on. Remember, that paradise currently has two sides, the good side and the bad side. Those that are gathered to their fathers (Abraham, etc.) are on the good side. Those that aren't are on the bad side. The gulf is not passable, therefore, those that are on the bad side are waiting for judgment or the Millennium.

Btw I dont believe in rapture as some preach it, being ripped out of our cars and windows, so you obviously did not understand my post at all.
But of course if God wants it to be that way I surely wont be protesting

 

[Sophia]

I firmly believe that we will be gathered before the wrath hits, but it is pretty clear that Christians are here to resist the beast and the false prophet. So... where do people get this idea that the whole 7 years is wrath? Bible says the 1st half is "peace" to those who follow the beast, and persecution to those who resist, and that God will harden the hearts and minds of those who reject God so that they will not see the signs, but open the eyes of the faithful.

The faithful have their eyes open, and the faithless shut their eyes harder. His Coming is imminent for the faithless, but well expected by the faithful. We are gathered when things hit the fan at the 3.5 year point. I definitely believe in rapture, just not the Left Behind series timing. That's just a man-made invention to counter the SDA doomsday preppers.