Praying to the Holy Spirit

[shad]

Some of you might get upset with this because you have been taught this it's okay, but it's not okay. A believer that prays to the Holy Spirit does not understand his relationship to the Holy Spirit as a believer nor does he understand why he was given the Holy Spirit when he first believed upon the Son. The believer does not have the Spirit without the Son. The believer should never pray to the Holy Spirit. The believer prays to the Father in the name of the Son with the Holy Spirit's help or in the Spirit when they do not know how to pray / Mt 6:9-14, Jn 14:13, Rom 8;26. Never do we ask the Holy Spirit to forgive us or cleanse us from sin, because it was the plan of the Father that sent His Son to die and shed His blood to satify the Father and provide redemption for us. The Father is the one who instructs the Spirit because it came from Him / Jn 15:26. We pray to the Father in the name of the Son and He directs the Spirit what to do or what not to do for the believer and for man.

The Son taught the disciples to pray to the Father and it did not include praying to the Spirit, even though God is Spirit / Jn 4:24. There is not a single prayer in the scriptures that is directed to the Holy Spirit nor in the name of the Holy Spirit and that includes those that would desire any of the gifts of the Spirit as well. Jesus Christ is also the author and finisher of our faith, not the Holy Spirit / Heb 12:2. We received the Spirit not by asking but by the hearing of faith through the word Gal 6:2. The Spirit came through a promise by faith / Gal 6:14. It was a promise of the Father sent by and through the name of the Son / Lk 24:49, Acts 1:4, 2:33, Jn 14:26, 15:26.

*As a side note and comment, as a Spirit-filled believer we never have to ask God for an anointing or to anoint us when we speak, preach or share the gospel because we have that unction from God within / 1Jn 2:20.

The Holy Spirit can't forgive you because the Son paid for your sins with His blood to satisfy the justice of the Father. The Son offered Himself to God without spot through the help of the eternal Spirit / Heb 9:14. The Holy Spirit can only reveal that truth through the work of the Son and through His word that has been given to set us apart / Jn 17:17, Eph 1:13, 1Thes 2:13, Jm 1:18. The Father forgives us through the blood of His Son that satisfied His justice even before we understood it. The Holy Spirit reveals that truth in us and helps us to understand and obey it, to honor the Son and glorify the Father / 1Pt 1:2, Jn 5:23, Rom 15:6.

 

[aspen]

How many more road blocks are going to be place before God's free people?

 

[glenwood74]

If one identifies the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of the living Christ that dwells within us, then communion with this Spirit is communion with God the Father, and with the Son. God wants our worship, and when we identify His Spirit in our prayers, how is that anything but what he asks of us. I believe we are about to argue semantics and language. Jesus Christ is God. The Father Yahweh is God. The Holy Spirit is God.

 

[Gabriel777]

Wow Shad, I've been wondering about that these past couple of days. Thank you for your answers and clarifications. I believe that this should be taught around churches 'cause the Bible never says to pray TO the Spirit. The Spirit is what empowers us to be a witness and conquer sin through His Son. I've always wondered why some churches pray to the Spirit and try to "invoke" him and they start manifesting weird stuff.

 

[machew]

Some of you might get upset with this because you have been taught this it's okay, but it's not okay. A believer that prays to the Holy Spirit does not understand his relationship to the Holy Spirit as a believer nor does he understand why he was given the Holy Spirit when he first believed upon the Son. The believer does not have the Spirit without the Son. The believer should never pray to the Holy Spirit. The believer prays to the Father in the name of the Son with the Holy Spirit's help or in the Spirit when they do not know how to pray / Mt 6:9-14, Jn 14:13, Rom 8;26. Never do we ask the Holy Spirit to forgive us or cleanse us from sin, because it was the plan of the Father that sent His Son to die and shed His blood to satify the Father and provide redemption for us. The Father is the one who instructs the Spirit because it came from Him / Jn 15:26. We pray to the Father in the name of the Son and He directs the Spirit what to do or what not to do for the believer and for man.

The Son taught the disciples to pray to the Father and it did not include praying to the Spirit, even though God is Spirit / Jn 4:24. There is not a single prayer in the scriptures that is directed to the Holy Spirit nor in the name of the Holy Spirit and that includes those that would desire any of the gifts of the Spirit as well. Jesus Christ is also the author and finisher of our faith, not the Holy Spirit / Heb 12:2. We received the Spirit not by asking but by the hearing of faith through the word Gal 6:2. The Spirit came through a promise by faith / Gal 6:14. It was a promise of the Father sent by and through the name of the Son / Lk 24:49, Acts 1:4, 2:33, Jn 14:26, 15:26.

*As a side note and comment, as a Spirit-filled believer we never have to ask God for an anointing or to anoint us when we speak, preach or share the gospel because we have that unction from God within / 1Jn 2:20.

The Holy Spirit can't forgive you because the Son paid for your sins with His blood to satisfy the justice of the Father. The Son offered Himself to God without spot through the help of the eternal Spirit / Heb 9:14. The Holy Spirit can only reveal that truth through the work of the Son and through His word that has been given to set us apart / Jn 17:17, Eph 1:13, 1Thes 2:13, Jm 1:18. The Father forgives us through the blood of His Son that satisfied His justice even before we understood it. The Holy Spirit reveals that truth in us and helps us to understand and obey it, to honor the Son and glorify the Father / 1Pt 1:2, Jn 5:23, Rom 15:6.

shad:

I would be really really careful about what you are saying. Your post seems to be implying that the Holy Spirit is not equal with the rest of the Trinity. I think you are reading into the text a bit too much. Our ancient church Fathers from Acts have already settled this issue long ago in the numerous councils that they had. I wouldn't even touch a teaching like this with a ten foot pole. Because if I am wrong, God will judge me harshly for it. Throughout the Bible the Father and the Son are very protective of the Holy Spirit and against those who misrepresent, speak against, and grieve the Holy Spirit.

There are also places in scripture that don't directly say to pray to the Holy Spirit but talk about the Holy Spirit and the ways the Holy Spirit has interacted with us (1 Corinthians 6:19, Acts 15:28, Acts 20:28, Acts 28:24-26, Romans 5:5, 2 Timothy 1:14, Hebrews 10:14-16, 1 Peter 1:11-12, Jude 1:20, 2 Corinthians 13:14)

Let look at that last verse:
2 Corinthians 13:14(NASB)

14The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

This seems like a casual parting statement from Paul, but Paul was intent on not wasting his words. Look at the greek word he used for "fellowship" (koinōnia).

Definition of koinōnia:
1) fellowship, association, community, communion, joint participation, intercourse
a) the share which one has in anything, participation
b) intercourse, fellowship, intimacy
1) the right hand as a sign and pledge of fellowship (in fulfilling the apostolic office)
c) a gift jointly contributed, a collection, a contribution, as exhibiting an embodiment and proof of fellowship

This is the same word that is used in 1 Cor 1:9 where Paul says we should have fellowship with the Son(Jesus). It is also the same word used in 1 John 1:3, where it tells about having fellowship with the Father and the Son. So the Bible actually does not make any clear distinction between fellowship with the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit. And the word used for fellowship in regard to all in the Trinity is the same word which means fellowship, communion, community, to share which one has in anything, intimacy, etc.

Given this information I would like to know, how this definition of fellowship is even possible with the Holy Spirit without a two-way dialog. Can you have communion, community, fellowship, and intimacy with the Holy Spirit without talking to Him?


Much Love & Respect,

Machew

 

[wattie]

yah I agree with Machew..

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three expressions of one and the same being. They aren't seperate beings that act independently of eachother. If they are.. then you have Polytheism

they aren't just one in 'mind' or one in 'unity'.. not like a group of people .. but one being who expresses Himself in 3 ways.

So you can pray to the Holy Spirit.. since He is God the Spirit!

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

the Spirit of God.. and the Holy Spirit are the same thing.. there are not two different Spirits.

An example of the 3 essences working as one?

The Father gives eternal life.. Jesus gives eternal life through us entrusting our salvation with Him.. the Holy Spirit gives eternal life through sealing us unto the day of redemption.

When the dove - representing the Spirit descended on Jesus- this was a snap shot of something already happening.. not something that wasn't already there.

So yeah.. there are verses in the bible that talk about praying to the Father and Jesus.. but that doesn't seperate them from the Holy Spirit. Jesus is God.. the Father is God.. the Holy Spirit is God. God is one God.. and there is no other beside Him. God is a Spirit. Jesus gives the comforter.. which is the Holy Spirit.

They don't work seperately ..

Jesus talking to the Father? Well this is like our mind communicating with our body. One being with three essences.

Anyhoo..

I have no problem with praying to the Holy Spirit .. He convicts us of sin.. guides us .. teaches us.. seals us at salvation... is personal.. was with God from the beginning.. dwells in local churches as the comforter..

'where two or three are gathered, there I am in the midst of them'.. this verse is spoken by Jesus.. about being with christians who are resolving disputes between eachother.. now..

How could He be 'in the midst'?

He could only be the Holy Spirit in this way..

Jesus.. is the Comforter..

Jesus- His name even links back to the Jewish national name for God.. which is a reference to the Old Testament references to God.

 

[MahogonySnail]

..."with the Father and the Son He is to be worshipped and glorified".

technically we dont pray to the Spirit but we can dialogue and talk to him.

But if you pray to one you are praying to all three so it doesnt really matter - for a Christian who understands the proper roles and relationships of the Godhead.

Yes there are people out there who aren't really christians and pray to or invoke the Spirit, the Great Spirit or the Holy Spirit..but it's not because they pray to the Spirit that is the cause of their issue, it's the fact they have never been born again. Once a pastors wife was saying Holy Spirits (plural) all the time and I wondered why, until i found the verse in revelation that says the 7 spirits of God. She was certainly confused and not quite right spiritually I think.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

I think this may qualify as "straining out gnats and swallowing camels." To pray to the Holy Spirit does not break any instruction of scripture. God does not look upon the formula of our prayer, but our heart. While there is much to be said about the "forgotten Father" this is not the way to make the change. Prayer is simply communicating with God.

 

[MahogonySnail]

I think it's Derek Prince who is one who teaches against praying to the Spirit.

 

[VW]

I have heard many things, but this takes the cake. If we knew the heart of the Spirit, and how much He loves us and is jealous for us, and even more, how much the Father is jealous for the Spirit He has made to abide in us, we would faint to think in such a way about Him.

Here is the truth of the heart of the Spirit. Let those who are mature understand. He is the heart of God. As such, He is the love of God in us and to us. And further, He is the fullness of the Godhead in us. Think about that. He is our link with God, with the Son, and with each other. It is through Him that the building of God's temple is being built. It is Him who is the presence of the living God, and He is the seal and the sanctification and the proof of our salvation, of our adoption, of our being the children of God, of the inherientence which is stored up for us in God. Without Him not one person would be born again.

But even knowing all of these things is not the fullness of the Spirit and His place in us. He is our guide, our teacher, our comforter, our conscience, and the voice of Jesus in us and to us.

And this still is not the fullness.

He is the very heart of God for us and to us and in us. And we trample on this heart, all the time. We have shunned and spurned and denied and grieved and every other evil thing that man is capable of, to this heart of God. It will cost us when we ask to return to His favor. For the Spirit is our favor from God. And He is not favoring us now. We need Him, more than we can know.

 

[Gabriel777]

I honestly don't know what to say about this. I came out of a pentecostal-charismatic church that always prayed to the Holy Spirit and such but then you see people shaking on the floor and the main "apostle" laying hands on people and they shake even more. All i know is that God is not the author of confusion.

 

[shad]

There is not one verse in 32,000 verses of scripture that thanks or gives thanks or thanksgiving to the Holy Spirit. All thanks and thanksgiving is given to the Father and through the Son. I might be thankful to the Father for the Holy Spirit in my life but I am not thankful to the Holy Spirit for anything because everything comes from the Father, even the Holy Spirit.

There is not a single verse that attributes forgiveness as an activity of the Spirit, therefore we are to only go to the Father through the Son to be forgiven and we only encourage others to do the same.

There is not a single verse that instructs the believer or any man at any time to reverence or worship the Holy Spirit in any manner for any reason. We are to only worship the Father and the Son as Lord. The Holy Spirit teaches us how to worship the Father and the Son, and how to pray to the Father and the Son, and guides us into the truth of God's forgiveness and teaches us to be thankful to the Father and the Son from whom are all things. The Spirit will never leave us or forsake us in times of sin, failure, difficulty, trouble, lack of faith, in weakness or infirmity of the flesh and will reveal the Son in us and glorify the Father.

It is not the function of the Spirit to be prayed to or to be worshiped or to forgive or even be thanked for the work and fruit that the Spirit produces in our life. The Holy Spirit directs us to the Father and the Son for those things because they are sitting upon the throne and are worthy to be praised and worshiped giving them all the glory for ever and ever.

 

[VW]

I honestly don't know what to say about this. I came out of a pentecostal-charismatic church that always prayed to the Holy Spirit and such but then you see people shaking on the floor and the main "apostle" laying hands on people and they shake even more. All i know is that God is not the author of confusion.

Is shaking confusion? Are we understanding what is happening? Does it make us uncomfortable and so it cannot be of God?

I know that this denomination is want to abuse things of the Spirit. That does not mean that we through out the Spirit because of others abuse. We are complacent, lazy, stuck in our ways, stubborn and obstinate. That is our nature. God presses against our comfort zones on purpose, to get us to look outside of our experience, because what He wants to give us is beyond anything we can imagine. And if we don't believe, it won't happen.

I have seen the Spirit minister to a new, brand new, not 10 minutes old christian. After the demons were ordered to leave in Jesus' name, the Spirit worked on this person for almost an hour. It was definitely different, and I was afraid that it might not be from God. After an interminable time, I asked God to stop it. He did. My bad. He was not through, and this dear babe in Christ had to endure months of struggle with things that the Lord wanted to deliver them from all at once. He knew that this would happen, and He used it to cause me to learn a very very important lesson, that He will at times do as we say, and it is not always good. For the babe in Christ Jesus, they turned out perfect, as all those who are born of the Spirit do.

In His peace,

 

[glenwood74]

We are the temples of the Holy Spirit....temples....What do you do in a temple? You worship. Anything that has a temple built to it receives worship. The Holy Spirit is God and God requires our worship. If you feel that you shouldn't pray to the Holy Spirit, then fine, don't do it, but why are you trying to drive home an obscure idea that only applies to you?

2 Thessalonians 2: 13....God chose you to experience salvation, a salvation that comes through the Holy Spirit who makes you holy.....

The Holy Spirit is an essential part of salvation.

 

[Thaddaeus]

Some of you might get upset with this because you have been taught this it's okay, but it's not okay. A believer that prays to the Holy Spirit does not understand his relationship to the Holy Spirit as a believer nor does he understand why he was given the Holy Spirit when he first believed upon the Son. The believer does not have the Spirit without the Son. The believer should never pray to the Holy Spirit. The believer prays to the Father in the name of the Son with the Holy Spirit's help or in the Spirit when they do not know how to pray / Mt 6:9-14, Jn 14:13, Rom 8;26. Never do we ask the Holy Spirit to forgive us or cleanse us from sin, because it was the plan of the Father that sent His Son to die and shed His blood to satify the Father and provide redemption for us. The Father is the one who instructs the Spirit because it came from Him / Jn 15:26. We pray to the Father in the name of the Son and He directs the Spirit what to do or what not to do for the believer and for man.

The Son taught the disciples to pray to the Father and it did not include praying to the Spirit, even though God is Spirit / Jn 4:24. There is not a single prayer in the scriptures that is directed to the Holy Spirit nor in the name of the Holy Spirit and that includes those that would desire any of the gifts of the Spirit as well. Jesus Christ is also the author and finisher of our faith, not the Holy Spirit / Heb 12:2. We received the Spirit not by asking but by the hearing of faith through the word Gal 6:2. The Spirit came through a promise by faith / Gal 6:14. It was a promise of the Father sent by and through the name of the Son / Lk 24:49, Acts 1:4, 2:33, Jn 14:26, 15:26.

*As a side note and comment, as a Spirit-filled believer we never have to ask God for an anointing or to anoint us when we speak, preach or share the gospel because we have that unction from God within / 1Jn 2:20.

The Holy Spirit can't forgive you because the Son paid for your sins with His blood to satisfy the justice of the Father. The Son offered Himself to God without spot through the help of the eternal Spirit / Heb 9:14. The Holy Spirit can only reveal that truth through the work of the Son and through His word that has been given to set us apart / Jn 17:17, Eph 1:13, 1Thes 2:13, Jm 1:18. The Father forgives us through the blood of His Son that satisfied His justice even before we understood it. The Holy Spirit reveals that truth in us and helps us to understand and obey it, to honor the Son and glorify the Father / 1Pt 1:2, Jn 5:23, Rom 15:6.

you know, just because you don"t or you won't try to understand the Holy Spirit, doesn't make you and expert of the spiritual stuff. The Holy Spirit Is an equal part of the Godhead the third part but equal, as Jesus even said in the flesh that he felt it not robbery, to be equal with the Father, actually if you study prayer real good , Jesus always taught us to pray to the Father, we pray in guidance of the Holy Ghost, and that prayer then get sent to the Son But it is the Father that answers so we are praying to the Father,just as Jesus did and taught while he was with us, maybe there is some that would ask something of the Holy Ghost, But most folks that I know that mixes prayer with the Holy Ghost, they pray in the spirit, Or even, The Holy Spirit will pray for you and through, when You get to a turning point in your life, and Just don't know what to pray for or even how to pray the Holy Spirit kicks in for you.

now i am not the judge when someone crosses the line of ignorance of a subject into blaspheme. but if I were you I would be very careful, for this post alone to me is very close to blaspheming the Holy Ghost, and you know what the scriptures says about that don't You.
God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit so if you pray to God you are praying to all three,

Lu 12:10And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that BLASPHEMETH against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

 

[shad]

you know, just because you don"t or you won't try to understand the Holy Spirit, doesn't make you and expert of the spiritual stuff. The Holy Spirit Is an equal part of the Godhead the third part but equal, as Jesus even said in the flesh that he felt it not robbery, to be equal with the Father, actually if you study prayer real good , Jesus always taught us to pray to the Father, we pray in guidance of the Holy Ghost, and that prayer then get sent to the Son But it is the Father that answers so we are praying to the Father,just as Jesus did and taught while he was with us, maybe there is some that would ask something of the Holy Ghost, But most folks that I know that mixes prayer with the Holy Ghost, they pray in the spirit, Or even, The Holy Spirit will pray for you and through, when You get to a turning point in your life, and Just don't know what to pray for or even how to pray the Holy Spirit kicks in for you.

now i am not the judge when someone crosses the line of ignorance of a subject into blaspheme. but if I were you I would be very careful, for this post alone to me is very close to blaspheming the Holy Ghost, and you know what the scriptures says about that don't You.
God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit so if you pray to God you are praying to all three,

Lu 12:10And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that BLASPHEMETH against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

I have the Holy Spirit in me and don't you forget that Pastor Keith. When people start leaving the cross and begin to preach the Spirit and not Jesus Christ and Him crucified there is something very queer about that. When someone is in need of salvation through Christ and others try to persuade this person otherwise, there is something very strange about that also. There are those that would like to build a shrine of the Holy Spirit so they can have their own place of worship, that is very strange and off base.

If you want to be around that kind of religious spirit, go right ahead, but it's not for me. The word and the Spirit has taught me better than that and there is nothing edifying about it. Have fun with it Pastor Keith but their is absolutely not a single thing in it that reveals Christ nor the conviction that you have concerning our Lord. I suggest you reread all my posts on this thread and perhaps you will come to your senses and change your tone about blaspheming. If you are a man of God and you have the Spirit you will do the right thing in the grace of God.

 

[VW]

I have the Holy Spirit in me and don't you forget that Pastor Keith. When people start leaving the cross and begin to preach the Spirit and not Jesus Christ and Him crucified there is something very queer about that. When someone is in need of salvation through Christ and others try to persuade this person otherwise, there is something very strange about that also. There are those that would like to build a shrine of the Holy Spirit so they can have their own place of worship, that is very strange and off base.

If you want to be around that kind of religious spirit, go right ahead, but it's not for me. The word and the Spirit has taught me better than that and there is nothing edifying about it. Have fun with it Pastor Keith but their is absolutely not a single thing in it that reveals Christ nor the conviction that you have concerning our Lord. I suggest you reread all my posts on this thread and perhaps you will come to your senses and change your tone about blaspheming. If you are a man of God and you have the Spirit you will do the right thing in the grace of God.

funny, I did not know I was preaching.

I thought we all were talking about the body of Christ, and what she needs to become perfected.

Let's see, you say that we need the bible and learned men to teach us.

I say that the need the Spirit to teach us.

Which one do you think will have more to do with the cross?

 

[machew]

There is not one verse in 32,000 verses of scripture that thanks or gives thanks or thanksgiving to the Holy Spirit. All thanks and thanksgiving is given to the Father and through the Son. I might be thankful to the Father for the Holy Spirit in my life but I am not thankful to the Holy Spirit for anything because everything comes from the Father, even the Holy Spirit.

There is not a single verse that attributes forgiveness as an activity of the Spirit, therefore we are to only go to the Father through the Son to be forgiven and we only encourage others to do the same.

There is not a single verse that instructs the believer or any man at any time to reverence or worship the Holy Spirit in any manner for any reason. We are to only worship the Father and the Son as Lord. The Holy Spirit teaches us how to worship the Father and the Son, and how to pray to the Father and the Son, and guides us into the truth of God's forgiveness and teaches us to be thankful to the Father and the Son from whom are all things. The Spirit will never leave us or forsake us in times of sin, failure, difficulty, trouble, lack of faith, in weakness or infirmity of the flesh and will reveal the Son in us and glorify the Father.

It is not the function of the Spirit to be prayed to or to be worshiped or to forgive or even be thanked for the work and fruit that the Spirit produces in our life. The Holy Spirit directs us to the Father and the Son for those things because they are sitting upon the throne and are worthy to be praised and worshiped giving them all the glory for ever and ever.

There are also no verses that say that you can't and shouldn't. When you teach people that you shouldn't do something, it should be because scripture says not to do it. The fact that it doesn't say that you should doesn't mean that you shouldn't.

What you are saying is comparable to saying: "Jesus never said in scripture to worship Him, so I shouldn't sing praise songs to Jesus because there is no direct reference to it in scripture that says I should."

 

[VW]

There are also no verses that say that you can't and shouldn't. When you teach people that you shouldn't do something, it should be because scripture says not to do it. The fact that it doesn't say that you should doesn't mean that you shouldn't.

What you are saying is comparable to saying: "Jesus never said in scripture to worship Him, so I shouldn't sing praise songs to Jesus because there is no direct reference to it in scripture that says I should."

It is much worse than that, what he is saying. It will become apparent in the days ahead.

I wonder how one separates the Spirit from the Lord? Or the Father?

 

[machew]

It is much worse than that, what he is saying. It will become apparent in the days ahead.

I wonder how one separates the Spirit from the Lord? Or the Father?

Well what I meant is, using the same logic he is using I can come to the conclusion of the statement above. I am just showing the flawed logic he is using.