-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
Jesus is God. I talk to him all the time also. I figure the Holy Spirit was in Jesus just like the Holy Spirit is in us. I just never heard Jesus say I'm going to go pray to the Holy Spirit. He said I'm praying to the Father. He said he was sending the Holy Spirit to comfort us. WE know their all three connected to each other. Their all Spirits. I pray for God to send his Holy Spirit to me. And for his Holy Spirit to protect me. But I never pray to the Holy Spirit. I don't understand it all. I don't think we are able to understand it all.
I talk to the Spirit, and I ask Him questions, and I ask Him to be with me, to guide me and to keep me in Jesus. He is my friend, only He is the best friend and the hardest friend I have ever had. He is so sensitive, quiet, thoughtful, understanding, and demanding of truth. Yeah, I guess you could say that I pray to Him, considering all of the above. He is the Spirit of Christ. I do not confuse Him with the Father or with Jesus. When I need something, I ask the Father, but I do so through the Spirit. And when I pray to Jesus, I do so through the Spirit. I trust the Spirit for this, as He knows my heart, and the Father's heart, and Jesus' heart, perfectly. In a way, He is their hearts.
But He will not be spurned. We do not realize just what He is to the Father and to Jesus. He is their heart. Through Him we have the love of God in us. This means more than what it sounds like. I cannot tell you what it means, that is up to the Holy Spirit. He is moch more than we have allowed.
In His love
But He will not be spurned. We do not realize just what He is to the Father and to Jesus. He is their heart. Through Him we have the love of God in us. This means more than what it sounds like. I cannot tell you what it means, that is up to the Holy Spirit. He is moch more than we have allowed.
In His love
S
It is strange to you because it is the truth? Do you preach the Spirit or do you preach Christ? Do you magnify the Spirit or do you magnify Christ? Did the Spirit die on the cross and shed His blood or did Christ? Did the Spirit pay for our sins through death or did Christ? Do we worship the Spirit as our Savior or do we worship our Savior Christ and the Father who sent Him? The written word testifies of Christ. The Spirit reveals Christ through the word and not the other way around. We are to reveal Christ not the Spirit. Christ is the head of the body, not the Spirit. People are healed in the name of Christ not in the name of the Spirit. God speaks to us through His Son and our relationship is with Him through the Spirit. The Spirit speaks to us through the word that we have been taught concerning the Son. There is not a believer that can be filled with the Spirit without the Son. The Spirit comes into our life through the Son. When people are hurting and confused we lift up Christ and His word. As believers we put Christ between us not the Spirit. Paul said for me to live is Christ, not the Spirit.
When believers start substituting Christ with the Spirit, that's when it starts to get strange. Our fellowship is OF the Spirit but it's WITH Christ and WITH the Father / Phil 2:1, 1Jn 1:3. The Spirit is in the believer giving them access to the Father and the Son, crying ABBA FATHER. Everything the Spirit does in the believer's life is to give them access to the Father and the Son and to bear the fruit of that fellowship. Love is the fruit of that fellowship. Joy and peace is the fruit of that fellowship we have OF the Spirit and WITH the Father and the Son. We pray to the Father in the name of the Son, we worship the Father through the Son, we have access to the Father through the Son, we obey the Father through the Son and the Father speaks to us through the Son. The words of the Son will judge us in the last days.
When believers start substituting Christ with the Spirit, that's when it starts to get strange. Our fellowship is OF the Spirit but it's WITH Christ and WITH the Father / Phil 2:1, 1Jn 1:3. The Spirit is in the believer giving them access to the Father and the Son, crying ABBA FATHER. Everything the Spirit does in the believer's life is to give them access to the Father and the Son and to bear the fruit of that fellowship. Love is the fruit of that fellowship. Joy and peace is the fruit of that fellowship we have OF the Spirit and WITH the Father and the Son. We pray to the Father in the name of the Son, we worship the Father through the Son, we have access to the Father through the Son, we obey the Father through the Son and the Father speaks to us through the Son. The words of the Son will judge us in the last days.
Yes, you are being strange. I have never said to, nor have I in my personal life, replaced Jesus with the Spirit. You change horses in the middle of the stream here. We were talking about preaching, which it to the lost, and I know the cross, but believe it or not, I do not preach, but rather the Spirit through me. What I have tried to do, which you have unjustly condemned me for multiple times, is that the believer needs to seek to walk in the Spirit more than we have.
Read John's account again in the Revelation of Jesus, when he is hearing Jesus. He was in the Spirit on the Lord's day.
The Spirit is the gift from the Father who is God in us. He is the mind of Christ in us. He is our progenitor, as we are born of Him, else we cannot even see the kingdom of heaven.
Now, I will not discuss this with you any more, because you are bound to be right, no matter what. So, I will admit that I am wrong, that the Spirit is none of the things I say He is. Just ask Him if you have gained by this.
Read John's account again in the Revelation of Jesus, when he is hearing Jesus. He was in the Spirit on the Lord's day.
The Spirit is the gift from the Father who is God in us. He is the mind of Christ in us. He is our progenitor, as we are born of Him, else we cannot even see the kingdom of heaven.
Now, I will not discuss this with you any more, because you are bound to be right, no matter what. So, I will admit that I am wrong, that the Spirit is none of the things I say He is. Just ask Him if you have gained by this.
S
This is not a contest of I win and you lose. Furthermore you are not obligated to respond to any post whether directed to you or otherwise. If you want to promote dreams, visions, the gifts of the Spirit and a relationship with the Spirit as the means of communication between God and the church and the evidence of having the Spirit, go right ahead and I am sure that many will agree with you because of your personal experience and testimony and because that is how they have been taught.
None of this is said to take away from the Holy Spirit and His role in the believer's life. Of course God is Spirit and we are to be filled, walk, led by and live in the Spirit but not without the Son and the fellowship we have with the Father and the Son. Do you also want to accuse me of coming close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit? Have I spoke evil of the Spirit or attributed a work of the Spirit as a work of the devil? Have I accused your labor and other believers who are bear fruit as a work of demons or an unclean spirit?
Can a believer give place to an unclean spirit or a doctrine of demons? YES! That is why we have the precious word of God and the whole counsel of God in written form. Even when we get off through another spirit, even a religious spirit, we can go to the written word and be instructed in the knowledge of the truth, which will correct us, reprove us and instruct us in righteousness. When that happens the Holy Spirit comes along and helps us with our understanding to guide us into the truth. The Spirit tutors us as we labor in the word and doctrine. The Spirit does not just take over but compliments us as a son to the Father. The Spirit is always helping us build a relationship with the Father and the Son so that we might have life.
None of this is said to take away from the Holy Spirit and His role in the believer's life. Of course God is Spirit and we are to be filled, walk, led by and live in the Spirit but not without the Son and the fellowship we have with the Father and the Son. Do you also want to accuse me of coming close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit? Have I spoke evil of the Spirit or attributed a work of the Spirit as a work of the devil? Have I accused your labor and other believers who are bear fruit as a work of demons or an unclean spirit?
Can a believer give place to an unclean spirit or a doctrine of demons? YES! That is why we have the precious word of God and the whole counsel of God in written form. Even when we get off through another spirit, even a religious spirit, we can go to the written word and be instructed in the knowledge of the truth, which will correct us, reprove us and instruct us in righteousness. When that happens the Holy Spirit comes along and helps us with our understanding to guide us into the truth. The Spirit tutors us as we labor in the word and doctrine. The Spirit does not just take over but compliments us as a son to the Father. The Spirit is always helping us build a relationship with the Father and the Son so that we might have life.
This last time I will answer you, and no more.
I started this by asking the question, have we made the bible to be an idol?
You answered not in meekness, but in strong rebuke.
From that time, I have been a trouble to you, and you have made it your personal mission to dispute everything I write, with one exception.
You have misconstrued most of what I have written. That I preach a false gospel, that I would preach the Spirit as people's salvation, leaving out Jesus crucified.
That I pray to the Spirit, asking Him for things that the Father gives.
That I have forgotten Jesus for the Spirit, worshiping the Spirit, and that this is against the word of God.
Let us look at the very first sermon ever given by the power of the Spirit.
Acts 2:33 Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear.
The Spirit's relationship to us is not cut and dried as you would believe, and you will not see this, because you think you know all.
John 14:16&17 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with your forever; that it, the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
Is God divided? Is not God one? When we pray to Jesus, are we not also praying to the Father? And if we are praying to the Spirit, are we also not praying to Jesus and the Father? How can you separate them? Jesus received the Spirit from the Father, but the Father gave us the Spirit. Or did Jesus give us the Spirit? Or is the Spirit Jesus in us? These are the mysteries of Christ, not yet revealed. The Spirit is one with the Father and the Son, and by Him, by the Holy Spirit, we are one with God, the Father and the Son. Now, I think that this was a very great thing that God did. He took up residence in us. God the Father and God the Son, by God the Spirit. Again, can we separate them?
God is everywhere by His Spirit. The Spirit is not voiceless, He is the voice of God. In truth, He is how we hear God. If God says to you, go and do this or say that, did He say this without the Spirit? And if we say, yes Lord, are we doing so without the Spirit? If we are, then it is not God.
Now I will not ever raise the Spirit above Jesus, nor will I place Him below Jesus. And I will tell you the truth, I will not place Him below any created thing, including the scriptures.
By saying that the Spirit in us is a subjective experience, we do just that. Are you ready for another mystery? With the prophet, the gift is subject to the prophet. I can receive a word and not give it. This does not make the Spirit subject to the prophet. Likewise what the Spirit does in us is not subjective, as we are fond of saying. What the Spirit does in us is what He is doing to the temple of the Lord, to the body of Christ, to the dwelling place of God. Yes, God dwells in us, by His Spirit. We have our access to Him by His Spirit. Jesus dwells in us by His Spirit. If the Spirit is not teaching you every thing that you know, you cannot know that you have the truth. Every truth we have that is true is from the Spirit. Every truth we have about God and our relationship with Him through the Spirit of Christ is received from the Holy Spirit.
I started this by asking the question, have we made the bible to be an idol?
You answered not in meekness, but in strong rebuke.
From that time, I have been a trouble to you, and you have made it your personal mission to dispute everything I write, with one exception.
You have misconstrued most of what I have written. That I preach a false gospel, that I would preach the Spirit as people's salvation, leaving out Jesus crucified.
That I pray to the Spirit, asking Him for things that the Father gives.
That I have forgotten Jesus for the Spirit, worshiping the Spirit, and that this is against the word of God.
Let us look at the very first sermon ever given by the power of the Spirit.
Acts 2:33 Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear.
The Spirit's relationship to us is not cut and dried as you would believe, and you will not see this, because you think you know all.
John 14:16&17 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with your forever; that it, the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
Is God divided? Is not God one? When we pray to Jesus, are we not also praying to the Father? And if we are praying to the Spirit, are we also not praying to Jesus and the Father? How can you separate them? Jesus received the Spirit from the Father, but the Father gave us the Spirit. Or did Jesus give us the Spirit? Or is the Spirit Jesus in us? These are the mysteries of Christ, not yet revealed. The Spirit is one with the Father and the Son, and by Him, by the Holy Spirit, we are one with God, the Father and the Son. Now, I think that this was a very great thing that God did. He took up residence in us. God the Father and God the Son, by God the Spirit. Again, can we separate them?
God is everywhere by His Spirit. The Spirit is not voiceless, He is the voice of God. In truth, He is how we hear God. If God says to you, go and do this or say that, did He say this without the Spirit? And if we say, yes Lord, are we doing so without the Spirit? If we are, then it is not God.
Now I will not ever raise the Spirit above Jesus, nor will I place Him below Jesus. And I will tell you the truth, I will not place Him below any created thing, including the scriptures.
By saying that the Spirit in us is a subjective experience, we do just that. Are you ready for another mystery? With the prophet, the gift is subject to the prophet. I can receive a word and not give it. This does not make the Spirit subject to the prophet. Likewise what the Spirit does in us is not subjective, as we are fond of saying. What the Spirit does in us is what He is doing to the temple of the Lord, to the body of Christ, to the dwelling place of God. Yes, God dwells in us, by His Spirit. We have our access to Him by His Spirit. Jesus dwells in us by His Spirit. If the Spirit is not teaching you every thing that you know, you cannot know that you have the truth. Every truth we have that is true is from the Spirit. Every truth we have about God and our relationship with Him through the Spirit of Christ is received from the Holy Spirit.
Last edited:
S
You asked me earlier if I had a word of knowledge about you, I don't, but I can say this. The wound that you have received in the past went very deep and has resulted in an understanding and relationship to the Spirit that is unsound concerning the faith that we have been given through the written word. By your own confession you esteem and elevate the Spirit above the scriptures and by doing that you have given place to a spiritual dimension that can communicate doctrine that will sound like God but has not the authority of God / Mt 7:29, Titus 2:15.
a quote by you: 'Now I will not ever raise the Spirit above Jesus, nor will I place Him below Jesus. And I will tell you the truth, I will not place Him below any created thing, including the scriptures.'
We are to buy the truth and sell it not / Prov 23:23. There are those that would like to buy the Spirit whose heart is not right. The Spirit relies upon the words of the Father and the Son to communicate truth to our spirit revealing that we are the sons of God and joint heirs with Christ. When we are quickened in our spirit and made alive by the word through the Holy Spirit this is when we are worshiping God in spirit and truth / Jn 6:63.
The human spirit which has been given to man is the candle of the Lord / Prov 20:27 and we worship God in our human spirit that has been lit up as a candle by the light of God's word. It is vital that we keep that candle lit by the entrance of God's word and by staying filled with the oil of the Holy Spirit. Without the human spirit in man there is nothing for the Holy Spirit to fuel or for God to light up with His word. The highest form of worship is to hear the truth of God's word so that our spirit is quickened by that word. David constantly sought God and continually asked to be quickened by the word / Ps 119:25,50,107,154.
Whatever we do, eat or drink or with our hands we do it with all our might as unto the Lord. If it be raising children and managing a household or working at a drugstore to pay our bills or running a business, we do it by faith and glorify God with our attitude. If the Holy Spirit wants to kick something our way in what we are doing to help us or give us strength then that is a bonus and we are thankful to the Father. We don't have to always get an OK from the Spirit in order to do something. We can do things and trust God and still walk by faith and be a Spirit-filled believer without some spiritual thing happening all the time.
If you break your arm and you are in great pain do you ask God if it's OK to go to the doctor and then wait for the Holy Spirit to answer? NO! You go to the doctor, you get treated and you thank God for everything that happened. There is a practical side of being a believer that does not require the assistance of the Holy Spirit but if you pray and ask for help you have not sinned nor has the one that acted in faith.
a quote by you: 'Now I will not ever raise the Spirit above Jesus, nor will I place Him below Jesus. And I will tell you the truth, I will not place Him below any created thing, including the scriptures.'
We are to buy the truth and sell it not / Prov 23:23. There are those that would like to buy the Spirit whose heart is not right. The Spirit relies upon the words of the Father and the Son to communicate truth to our spirit revealing that we are the sons of God and joint heirs with Christ. When we are quickened in our spirit and made alive by the word through the Holy Spirit this is when we are worshiping God in spirit and truth / Jn 6:63.
The human spirit which has been given to man is the candle of the Lord / Prov 20:27 and we worship God in our human spirit that has been lit up as a candle by the light of God's word. It is vital that we keep that candle lit by the entrance of God's word and by staying filled with the oil of the Holy Spirit. Without the human spirit in man there is nothing for the Holy Spirit to fuel or for God to light up with His word. The highest form of worship is to hear the truth of God's word so that our spirit is quickened by that word. David constantly sought God and continually asked to be quickened by the word / Ps 119:25,50,107,154.
Whatever we do, eat or drink or with our hands we do it with all our might as unto the Lord. If it be raising children and managing a household or working at a drugstore to pay our bills or running a business, we do it by faith and glorify God with our attitude. If the Holy Spirit wants to kick something our way in what we are doing to help us or give us strength then that is a bonus and we are thankful to the Father. We don't have to always get an OK from the Spirit in order to do something. We can do things and trust God and still walk by faith and be a Spirit-filled believer without some spiritual thing happening all the time.
If you break your arm and you are in great pain do you ask God if it's OK to go to the doctor and then wait for the Holy Spirit to answer? NO! You go to the doctor, you get treated and you thank God for everything that happened. There is a practical side of being a believer that does not require the assistance of the Holy Spirit but if you pray and ask for help you have not sinned nor has the one that acted in faith.
Last edited:
shad do you deny the Holy Ghost as being God ??? I know you have deny scriptures as far as the diety of the Holy Ghost, so are you flat out saying that no way that the Holy ghost is just as much God as the father or the Son??
Joh 14:26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
I had forgotten the warning in this passage.
He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come."
I remembered the passage, but not the exact wording. Someone posted it today on another thread, and it hit me like a ton of bricks.
I am praying still.
He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come."
I remembered the passage, but not the exact wording. Someone posted it today on another thread, and it hit me like a ton of bricks.
I am praying still.
S
I have not denied the deity of the Holy Spirit and believe that the Spirit is fully a member of the Godhead with not a thing lacking. There are two specific things that I have mentioned about our relationship to the Holy Spirit, we do not worship or pray to the Holy Spirit. There is a reason why we don't and this is the reason. The Holy Spirit does not will it nor desire it. Perhaps that is why you can not find any scripture on it. The Father and the Son have no problem asking and desiring our worship and we are instructed to pray accordingly, but the Spirit does not.
God is Spirit and the Son sent the Spirit to indwell the believer, can't we honor the Spirit's desire to worship and pray to the Father and the Son? If the Spirit who is a distinct member of the Trinity does not require or demand in any way, according to the scriptures that He inspired, that we worship or pray to Him directly, are you going to tell the Spirit that he's being too modest and humble and worship and pray to Him on your own? Have you ever thought that by doing that you might be trying to steady the ark just a little or disobeying the voice of God? Since when do we become God's counselor and give equal worship and prayer to every member of the Godhead? You can't find it in the scriptures so you have to assume it's alright and take it upon yourself to do so. That is not God's righteousness, that is your righteousness cloaked in spirituality and God rejects it, like He does all forms of righteousness that does not come from Him.
God is Spirit and the Son sent the Spirit to indwell the believer, can't we honor the Spirit's desire to worship and pray to the Father and the Son? If the Spirit who is a distinct member of the Trinity does not require or demand in any way, according to the scriptures that He inspired, that we worship or pray to Him directly, are you going to tell the Spirit that he's being too modest and humble and worship and pray to Him on your own? Have you ever thought that by doing that you might be trying to steady the ark just a little or disobeying the voice of God? Since when do we become God's counselor and give equal worship and prayer to every member of the Godhead? You can't find it in the scriptures so you have to assume it's alright and take it upon yourself to do so. That is not God's righteousness, that is your righteousness cloaked in spirituality and God rejects it, like He does all forms of righteousness that does not come from Him.
The part of the paragraph just before the unpardonable sin is interesting also.
"Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself shall not stand. And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelsebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them our? Consequently they shall be your judges. But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or can anyone enter the strong man's house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house."
In actuality, the first passage I posted above is part of this passage, and they are of one paragraph. This passage in Matt is continued through verse 37. If we were reading the whole passage together, it would show us the place of the Spirit.
"Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself shall not stand. And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelsebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them our? Consequently they shall be your judges. But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or can anyone enter the strong man's house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house."
In actuality, the first passage I posted above is part of this passage, and they are of one paragraph. This passage in Matt is continued through verse 37. If we were reading the whole passage together, it would show us the place of the Spirit.
- Status