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good point dave, we can call the Holy Spirit, God we can talk with Him as He is God, we can listen to Him as He is God and even obey Him as He is God , we can ask Him to dwell in our body which is the temple of God , we just can't worship him, has anyone ever known of a god of any type that does not require the worship of their subjects?
S
Col 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: 29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
MS listen to what the word of God says about CHRIST IN US. God makes known a mystery among the Gentiles, which is the riches of His glory, WHICH IS CHRIST IN YOU! We can say as Gentiles that God has revealed a mystery among us, who are a part of the dispensation of God to the church, WHICH IS CHRIST IN US, the hope of glory. Not only is CHRIST IN US but we are in Christ / (over 60 times in Ephesians). And the Spirit of truth is a witness of the truth, that CHRIST IS IN US.
Most believers would stop right there and begin to worship God in spirit and truth because of that awesome truth that we as sinners would have CHRIST IN US. You say, I can't figure that out, that's not possible! You can't figure it out because God made it a mystery to be revealed to the church. We fellowship with Christ, who is within us, through the Holy Spirit. Even the fellowship is a mystery / Eph 3:9. That is the fellowship and joint participation that we have of the Spirit / Phil 2:1.
To add a little more to that mystery, not only do we have CHRIST IN US but we have the SPIRIT OF HIS SON also / Gal 4:6. We grow in grace and knowledge of Christ / 2Pt 3:18. We have Christ that is seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven and we have CHRIST IN US the hope of glory that we will have with Him in heaven. He will never leave us or forsake us and we will receive glorified bodies like unto His glorious body / Phil 3:21. We have CHRIST within, we preach CHRIST to help every man become perfect in Christ Jesus and we labor and strive according to HIS working, which in us is mighty. The Holy Spirit doesn't have a problem with Christ being within the believer so why should you.
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: 29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
MS listen to what the word of God says about CHRIST IN US. God makes known a mystery among the Gentiles, which is the riches of His glory, WHICH IS CHRIST IN YOU! We can say as Gentiles that God has revealed a mystery among us, who are a part of the dispensation of God to the church, WHICH IS CHRIST IN US, the hope of glory. Not only is CHRIST IN US but we are in Christ / (over 60 times in Ephesians). And the Spirit of truth is a witness of the truth, that CHRIST IS IN US.
Most believers would stop right there and begin to worship God in spirit and truth because of that awesome truth that we as sinners would have CHRIST IN US. You say, I can't figure that out, that's not possible! You can't figure it out because God made it a mystery to be revealed to the church. We fellowship with Christ, who is within us, through the Holy Spirit. Even the fellowship is a mystery / Eph 3:9. That is the fellowship and joint participation that we have of the Spirit / Phil 2:1.
To add a little more to that mystery, not only do we have CHRIST IN US but we have the SPIRIT OF HIS SON also / Gal 4:6. We grow in grace and knowledge of Christ / 2Pt 3:18. We have Christ that is seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven and we have CHRIST IN US the hope of glory that we will have with Him in heaven. He will never leave us or forsake us and we will receive glorified bodies like unto His glorious body / Phil 3:21. We have CHRIST within, we preach CHRIST to help every man become perfect in Christ Jesus and we labor and strive according to HIS working, which in us is mighty. The Holy Spirit doesn't have a problem with Christ being within the believer so why should you.
It is true that Christ is in us. It is also true that in Him dwells the fulness of God. It is also true that the Spirit dwells in us, the spirit of Christ. And even so, we have the mind of Christ. And just so we know just how blessed in Him we are, we are now, at this very moment, seated in heaven in God with Christ Jesus. I almost think that if we would allow, since there is more of God in us than there is of us, we could be true witnesses of Him, by letting Him be His own witness through us.
S
After some of you read this post, you are going to think that I am apostate and probably have a demon and in no way have the Spirit and in danger of hell fire. Or maybe you will think that I am a foolish man that does not know what he is saying or talkinf about. If you think all that about me then being accused of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit would fit right in. Here goes.
I know that so many of you are keen on the Holy Spirit and the role of the Godhead that the Spirit plays in the believer's life. Well, I am to and I have the following things to contribute.
There is no reference in the scriptures to the Holy Spirit or to the Spirit in reference to LIGHT, being SUBJECT TO, being in SUBMISSION TO or to OBEDIENCE. Absolutely not a single scripture. I am going to focus on the LIGHT.
The Holy Spirit is not the LIGHT of the world, Christ is the LIGHT and we are as believers the children of light / Jn 12:36 and we are to walk in the light as He is in the light with the Holy Spirit's help / 1Jn 1:7. The Spirit is a helper and a comforter / Rom 8:26, John 14:26. John only bore witness of that LIGHT but was not that LIGHT and he was filled with the Spirit from his mother's womb / Jn 1:7,8, Lk 1:15 (John being filled with the Spirit did not drink any wine or strong drink either). The entrance of God's word gives light / Ps 119:130 and the Spirit gives witness to the truth of that light that comes from God's word / Rom 9:1, 1Jn 5:6. The Spirit bears witness of the truth of the light that we have received but is not that LIGHT. Christ is the LIGHT / Jn 8:12, 12:46 and it is the job and function of the Spirit to reveal Christ.
The Spirit can only convict the world through the light that is receive through God's word, whether it be conviction of sin, of righteousness or of judgment / Jn 16:8-15. That is why we are called as children of light to go into all the world and let our light shine and preach the glorious gospel to every creature and train up others to do the same. When we do this faithfully and through the obedience of faith, the Holy Spirit will bring conviction to the world in these three areas. The Holy Spirit can not reprove of sin, righteousness or judgment without LIGHT that comes from Christ and His word from the members of His body that He has called by grace and redeemed through the blood of Christ. The gospel that we are to preach and the glad tidings that we are to bring is the good news of Jesus Christ and him crucified. When believers go out and preach Christ, the whole world gets turned upside down / Acts 17:6.
Right now many of you are steaming mad at me for saying these things that you consider blasphemous. A religious spirit that walks in darkness and hides itself in the counsels of the heart will always accuse others of blasphemy that walk in the conviction and fellowship of God's light. You can take that anyway you want but there it is. If men won't come to the light because their deeds and counsels of their own heart are evil, then God takes the light to them and convicts of those things that are not of God, who is light and in Him is no darkness at all / 1Jn 1:5.
I know that so many of you are keen on the Holy Spirit and the role of the Godhead that the Spirit plays in the believer's life. Well, I am to and I have the following things to contribute.
There is no reference in the scriptures to the Holy Spirit or to the Spirit in reference to LIGHT, being SUBJECT TO, being in SUBMISSION TO or to OBEDIENCE. Absolutely not a single scripture. I am going to focus on the LIGHT.
The Holy Spirit is not the LIGHT of the world, Christ is the LIGHT and we are as believers the children of light / Jn 12:36 and we are to walk in the light as He is in the light with the Holy Spirit's help / 1Jn 1:7. The Spirit is a helper and a comforter / Rom 8:26, John 14:26. John only bore witness of that LIGHT but was not that LIGHT and he was filled with the Spirit from his mother's womb / Jn 1:7,8, Lk 1:15 (John being filled with the Spirit did not drink any wine or strong drink either). The entrance of God's word gives light / Ps 119:130 and the Spirit gives witness to the truth of that light that comes from God's word / Rom 9:1, 1Jn 5:6. The Spirit bears witness of the truth of the light that we have received but is not that LIGHT. Christ is the LIGHT / Jn 8:12, 12:46 and it is the job and function of the Spirit to reveal Christ.
The Spirit can only convict the world through the light that is receive through God's word, whether it be conviction of sin, of righteousness or of judgment / Jn 16:8-15. That is why we are called as children of light to go into all the world and let our light shine and preach the glorious gospel to every creature and train up others to do the same. When we do this faithfully and through the obedience of faith, the Holy Spirit will bring conviction to the world in these three areas. The Holy Spirit can not reprove of sin, righteousness or judgment without LIGHT that comes from Christ and His word from the members of His body that He has called by grace and redeemed through the blood of Christ. The gospel that we are to preach and the glad tidings that we are to bring is the good news of Jesus Christ and him crucified. When believers go out and preach Christ, the whole world gets turned upside down / Acts 17:6.
Right now many of you are steaming mad at me for saying these things that you consider blasphemous. A religious spirit that walks in darkness and hides itself in the counsels of the heart will always accuse others of blasphemy that walk in the conviction and fellowship of God's light. You can take that anyway you want but there it is. If men won't come to the light because their deeds and counsels of their own heart are evil, then God takes the light to them and convicts of those things that are not of God, who is light and in Him is no darkness at all / 1Jn 1:5.
S
You can preach the Holy Spirit every day of your life and no one will get saved, I guarantee it. But if you preach Christ and Him crucified and the blood of the cross and tell people that all their sins have been paid for by Christ and they can be forgiven and cleansed through His blood when they believe upon Him, people will get saved, cleansed and born again of the Spirit and the word. That is the good old fashion gospel of grace. To get people under conviction you preach the gospel of the old rugged cross and that is the power of God unto salvation. To some that get caught up in intellectualism and hyper-spirituality and the cross is foolishness to them but to those that believe it is the power of God that will save them. Jesus Christ saves the sinner through the blood of the cross and that is how a sinner gets saved the Bible way. None of this spirit in the sky crap just mercy and grace meeting the sinner that puts their trust in the cross of Christ. AMEN! Pastor Keith if you don't believe that salvation is this way, then you do not believe the Bible.
S
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Jn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
The Comforter or Spirit would only be sent after Christ departed and had ascended unto the Father. That happened at Pentecost and continues through the dispensation of the church unto this day. When the Son appears a second time what happens to the Holy Spirit? Does it return back to God, stay with the believer or have another function? In Rev 22:17 the Spirit and the Bride say come. Two separate and distinct calls. Who are they asking to come and from what place are they making this call, on earth or in heaven? The only roll that we see the Spirit having in the tribulation period or the period associated from Rev 3:22 - Rev 22:17 is in Rev 11:11, when the Spirit of life entered into the two prophets that had been sent by God and were dead for 3 & 1/2 days, they stood up and they ascended up into heaven.
Was the Spirit as active in the OT with God's elect as with the elect of the NT church? If not, then why? Did the Spirit have a role and function with the OT elect and if so what was it? It was the same Spirit in the OT as it was in the NT, correct? There must be some truth concerning dispensations when it comes to the Spirit. I do not recall the people under Moses being baptized in the Spirit, they were baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea / 1Cor 10:2. But we are baptized by one Spirit into one body / 1Cor 12:13. What do your commentaries say about these things?
Did Moses have the Spirit or did God speak with him mouth to mouth / Num 12:7,8 and face to face / Deut 5:4? There is no record of Moses having the Spirit but God did speak with Him in the Mount If Moses did not have the Spirit how could he be trusted in the every day transactions of the church that was under his care/ Acts 7:38? They all drank of the same spiritual ROCK that followed them and that ROCK was CHRIST / 1Cor 10:4.
These are just some things for you to think about as you use logic and circular reasoning for your understanding. Objectivity in the scriptures is basically taking what is written, comparing spiritual with spiritual, here a little and there a little, line upon line and precept upon precept, not adding to it or taking from it and the conclusions become faith, During this process the Spirits help with our understanding so that we can here from the Son. Early church history has very little to do with it.
Heb 1:1,2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
God previously spoke to His people by the prophets but now He speaks to us by His Son. Don't tell those that always depend on the Spirit that God just might speak to us by His Son through His word, because they might get a little upset. BTW - In times past God spoke by the prophets at sundry times and in divers manners, even in the early inception of the church they were initially helpful, but in these last days God speaks through His Son and the prophets don't seem to be needed because what can they contribute that the Son can not? The foundation of the church has already been laid upon the apostles and prophets with Jesus Christ being the chief corner stone / Eph 2:20. Now we listen to what the Son has to say as the head of the church and we are built together as a habitation of God through the Spirit. The word comes from the Son to the body and the Spirit builds us together as a holy temple in the Lord. Jesus said that he that has the Son has life and he that has not the Son has not life. Sorry but without the Son we have not the Spirit and its not the other way around.
1Jn 5:11-13 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Jn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
The Comforter or Spirit would only be sent after Christ departed and had ascended unto the Father. That happened at Pentecost and continues through the dispensation of the church unto this day. When the Son appears a second time what happens to the Holy Spirit? Does it return back to God, stay with the believer or have another function? In Rev 22:17 the Spirit and the Bride say come. Two separate and distinct calls. Who are they asking to come and from what place are they making this call, on earth or in heaven? The only roll that we see the Spirit having in the tribulation period or the period associated from Rev 3:22 - Rev 22:17 is in Rev 11:11, when the Spirit of life entered into the two prophets that had been sent by God and were dead for 3 & 1/2 days, they stood up and they ascended up into heaven.
Was the Spirit as active in the OT with God's elect as with the elect of the NT church? If not, then why? Did the Spirit have a role and function with the OT elect and if so what was it? It was the same Spirit in the OT as it was in the NT, correct? There must be some truth concerning dispensations when it comes to the Spirit. I do not recall the people under Moses being baptized in the Spirit, they were baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea / 1Cor 10:2. But we are baptized by one Spirit into one body / 1Cor 12:13. What do your commentaries say about these things?
Did Moses have the Spirit or did God speak with him mouth to mouth / Num 12:7,8 and face to face / Deut 5:4? There is no record of Moses having the Spirit but God did speak with Him in the Mount If Moses did not have the Spirit how could he be trusted in the every day transactions of the church that was under his care/ Acts 7:38? They all drank of the same spiritual ROCK that followed them and that ROCK was CHRIST / 1Cor 10:4.
These are just some things for you to think about as you use logic and circular reasoning for your understanding. Objectivity in the scriptures is basically taking what is written, comparing spiritual with spiritual, here a little and there a little, line upon line and precept upon precept, not adding to it or taking from it and the conclusions become faith, During this process the Spirits help with our understanding so that we can here from the Son. Early church history has very little to do with it.
Heb 1:1,2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
God previously spoke to His people by the prophets but now He speaks to us by His Son. Don't tell those that always depend on the Spirit that God just might speak to us by His Son through His word, because they might get a little upset. BTW - In times past God spoke by the prophets at sundry times and in divers manners, even in the early inception of the church they were initially helpful, but in these last days God speaks through His Son and the prophets don't seem to be needed because what can they contribute that the Son can not? The foundation of the church has already been laid upon the apostles and prophets with Jesus Christ being the chief corner stone / Eph 2:20. Now we listen to what the Son has to say as the head of the church and we are built together as a habitation of God through the Spirit. The word comes from the Son to the body and the Spirit builds us together as a holy temple in the Lord. Jesus said that he that has the Son has life and he that has not the Son has not life. Sorry but without the Son we have not the Spirit and its not the other way around.
1Jn 5:11-13 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Everything you wrote is confusing and too long and I'm not sure which topic you are addressing or why what you wrote is relevant, can you please answer this question: "are you truly arguing that Jesus is physically and literally inside us?" Because so far it seems you are arguing against my claims that He is not. Then if you answer yes, can you please explain just how Jesus is physically inside us?, when He is supposed to be in heaven.
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