the rapture

[EarsToHear]

Um,no.

You will not fight the AC.
The word says he is given power to overcome the saints.
He beheads all refusing the mark.

You guys have made up the notion you are going to be chased all over the planet by a demonic freak.

It even says not to resist,and "blessed are those that die from this point forward"

You guys bring partial bibles to the table,get shellacked,then go after us personally.

I advise scrapping your concepts and standing toe to toe with bible in hand.

The crossroad will be you changing your mind or changing verses.

Until you learn how to rightly divide the Word, you’ll remain confused.


Proverbs 3:35 The wise shall inherit glory: but shame shall be the promotion of fools.


"Grace" is God's Riches At Christ's Expense, it is our inheritance, to live and reign with Him. It is God's promise to each of us, however it is not offered to fools. So who are fools? Remember from verse Proverbs 1:7; "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: But fools despise wisdom and instruction."


Amos 8:12 "And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and from to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it."


Church systems will not let a God led, Spirit filled person open up and let the Word pour forth as the Holy Spirit leads, without wounding preacher with limits. Shortly, all but the "elect of God" will chase and run to and fro for understanding of God's Word, but it just will not be found. Once God's elect are sealed with the truth in their minds, God will turn the others over to Satan and his locust army of fallen angels and followers.


Revelation 9:4 "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."


God's seal is His Word, and your mind is in your forehead. When God's Word is sealed in your mind, you will know the truth, know Satan as the fake and liar that he is, and not be tempted by him.


Revelation 9:5 "And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man."


This is the five months that Jesus spoke, of that the time of Daniel's prophecy would be shortened. When a scorpion strikes a man, the man is left completely defenseless, for his mind is unable to think to defend itself. Spiritually speaking, God is going to turn over those not sealed with the truth at the coming of Satan, the Kenites, and his locust army of angels, and the people will be completely taken by them.

 

[JesusIsAll]

While it is tempting to engage you in a name calling contest I will refrain because A) I'm a better Christian than that blah, blah, blah

Actually, were I calling names, there are names for you, heretofore unused. Before beating your chest was a grand Christian you are, you need to stop lying. In this regard, no matter how much you boast what a grand Christian you are, it's just a silk hat on a pig, as long as you're a deceiver. Denigrating the blessed hope is about as bad as it gets. You really shouldn't talk, when it's your singular purpose to spread a deceptive, false doctrine and doubt, that even slanders the character of the Lord. There's a lot you could he called that isn't the least pretty, right from the Bible, PlainWord, and it would be the plain truth.

 

[JesusIsAll]

It so happens J. Vernon Magee's Sunday sermon is about the tribulation. It's good teaching. I don't know how long the link is good for, until they change the sermon, but it can be played here, today (will also be archived for a couple weeks, anyway, in a link under "Previous Broadcast," after they change to a new sermon):

Why Jesus’ Church Will Not Go Through the Tribulation​

 

[PlainWord]

I will decode what John is saying with one of the examples I provided in the above. First I will give the OT passage and the prophet John is taking his symbol from, then I will give John's passage, then I will tell what it means.

SYMBOLS TO BE DECODED: LAMPSTAND, FIRE, BEAST, OLIVE TREE, WITNESS(ES)

REFERENCES:

LAMPSTAND = CHURCH (Rev 1:20)
FIRE = CONVICTING TRUTH WHICH CANNOT BE REFUTED AND SILENCES THE OPPONENT (Jer 5:14)
BEAST = KINGS/KINGDOMS (Dan 7:17, 23)
NATURAL OLIVE TREE = ISRAEL (Rom 11)
WILD OLIVE TREE = GENTILE BELIEVERS (Rom 11)
WITNESS(ES) = TRUE BELIEVERS (Isa 43:9-12, Acts 1:8)
SACKCLOTH = HUMILITY, MOURNING, REPENTANCE (Joel 1:8, 13 many others)

Who are the witnesses?

Acts 1:8

But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Passage about the 2 Witnesses (Rev 11) to be DECODED:

[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” [SUP]4 [/SUP]These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. [SUP]6 [/SUP]These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.

IF TAKEN LITERALLY: Two fire breathing men arrive on the Temple Mount and send all kinds of plagues upon the earth. Anyone who tries to harm these two "witnesses" are killed by the flamethrowers within the mouths of these two men. After 1,260 days a big hole opens up to the center of earth and a literal beast crawls up out of hell, wages war against these two men and kills them. Everyone sees this and celebrates.

IF TAKEN SPIRITUALLY: Two Churches (East/Greek Orthodox, and West/Roman Catholic) will evangelize the "earth" with relative impunity for approximately "1,260 days." They will "Christianize" the entire "earth" which is Asia Minor and the Middle East. They will convict the earth with the truth of the Gospel. Christianity will grow and dominate the region and no other religion can stop it. Then, starting in 632 AD, ISLAM is born. Over the next few centuries, ISLAM has spread into all of the area ("earth") and taken over those once Christian countries.

Which view is correct? Well, the literal view hasn't happened yet and I doubt we will ever see a big hole open up with a nasty beast crawling up from it and fighting with 2 fire breathing men. But, the spiritual interpretation has indeed happened already and continues to this day.

 

[popeye]

Until you learn how to rightly divide the Word, you’ll remain confused.


Proverbs 3:35 The wise shall inherit glory: but shame shall be the promotion of fools.


"Grace" is God's Riches At Christ's Expense, it is our inheritance, to live and reign with Him. It is God's promise to each of us, however it is not offered to fools. So who are fools? Remember from verse Proverbs 1:7; "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: But fools despise wisdom and instruction."


Amos 8:12 "And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and from to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it."


Church systems will not let a God led, Spirit filled person open up and let the Word pour forth as the Holy Spirit leads, without wounding preacher with limits. Shortly, all but the "elect of God" will chase and run to and fro for understanding of God's Word, but it just will not be found. Once God's elect are sealed with the truth in their minds, God will turn the others over to Satan and his locust army of fallen angels and followers.


Revelation 9:4 "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."


God's seal is His Word, and your mind is in your forehead. When God's Word is sealed in your mind, you will know the truth, know Satan as the fake and liar that he is, and not be tempted by him.


Revelation 9:5 "And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man."


This is the five months that Jesus spoke, of that the time of Daniel's prophecy would be shortened. When a scorpion strikes a man, the man is left completely defenseless, for his mind is unable to think to defend itself. Spiritually speaking, God is going to turn over those not sealed with the truth at the coming of Satan, the Kenites, and his locust army of angels, and the people will be completely taken by them.

Do you have anything to offer as far as debate?

IOW you know nothing of the dimensions I ran by you.

 

[EarsToHear]

Do you have anything to offer as far as debate?

IOW you know nothing of the dimensions I ran by you.

Have you ever considered that you may be deaf and blind, spiritually speaking, of course?

Mark 13:5 "And Jesus answering them began to say, "Take heed lest any many deceive you:"


So the basis of what we are working with here and guarding against, is deception. We have covered twelve chapters now in the book of Mark, and the ones called the "deceivers" are given over and over. They are the ones that have taken God's Word and twisted it to conform to their traditions, and made God's people believe their lies. They are the offspring of the same ones that took Jesus' life, and quite frankly, it is the religious community. The deception will come from the church religious community.


Lets go to Revelation 6, where the seals are listed, to the first seal from Revelation 6 so that we can align within our minds the continuity of God's holy Word. Lets look at the seals of God with the common sense that Jesus gives us here in Mark.


Revelation 6:1 "And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, "Come and see."


This is the first seal that Jesus is going to give us. This is one of the "Zoan", the beasts that guard the throne of God and he is going to do the speaking here. He is telling you to open your mind and see what is going to happen. It is not a secret, but something that is required of all of God's elect to see and understand.


Revelation 6:2 "And I saw, and behold, a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."


This is not a white ass like Jesus rode into Jerusalem, but is exactly like the white steed that Jesus would ride when He comes at the seventh trumpet, in Revelation 19:11-17. This white horse, and the one that is sitting on it is a copy, a counterfeit of the what will come later. This word for "bow" in the Greek is "toxon", which is not the same "bow" described in Revelation 4:3, God's bow was the rainbow that was "round about the throne of God". This bow that Satan will have when he comes will be a cheep imitation. Satan will come appearing to be what he is not. Satan will be coming as the "instead of Christ", in the role of the Antichrist, for he is the "son of perdition".

This "crown was given unto him," and it means that this false christ is going to rule when he comes. He went forth conquering, and to conquer in the name of religion. In the name of religion, he is going to deceive and confuse the people living on the face of this earth. This is Jesus Christ's first warning to you. Satan is coming to deceive those that are not sealed in their minds with the truth from God's Word. That is why the famine, in the end times, is not for bread but for the Word of God, because people will reject God's Word for the tradition and lying deceptions that will be given in the name of religion. So we see that the person on the white horse will be Satan, disguised as the true Christ. Satan is the false messiah that will come into the world, and he will make the people of the world, living in the flesh think he has come to rapture them away.


Of course, the so-called rapture has not occurred when this first seal takes place. Jesus is warning His disciples so that they will not be received by this fake christ, and if you are living in your flesh body when this occurs you will see Satan in his cheap [toxon] glory when he presents himself to the world. If you think there is a rapture, you have already taken the mark of the beast at this time, for you will think that Satan is Christ. Before this chapter ends, Jesus will tell you exactly when this gathering back to Christ is going to happen.

 

[PlainWord]

It so happens J. Vernon Magee's Sunday sermon is about the tribulation. It's good teaching. I don't know how long the link is good for, until they change the sermon, but it can be played here, today (will also be archived for a couple weeks, anyway, in a link under "Previous Broadcast," after they change to a new sermon):

Why Jesus’ Church Will Not Go Through the Tribulation​

The Church has been enduring 'tribulation" (small t) since it started. The church has been almost completely wiped out of Asia Minor and the Middle East (just as John predicted).

As for the "Great Tribulation" I've pointed this out to you a million times but you, like many others, have been so misled by misguided teachings and teachers and imaginations of your own creation that you have turned the Great Tribulation into something else as in a Global Wrath of God (which it isn't). You don't even understand where the GT takes place or who it applies to.

Mat 24: [SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mark 13: “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be.

Dan 12: “At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time.

Zech 14: For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity.

Jer 30: [SUP]7 [/SUP]Alas! For that day is great, So that none is like it; And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble, But he shall be saved out of it.

As is clearly taught and understood by anyone who can read and comprehend basic English, the Great Tribulation pertains to those in Judea (which in case you don't know is modern day Israel).

Therefore the GREAT TRIBULATION PERTAINS TO ISRAEL, NOT THE CHURCH AND NOT ANY PLACE ELSE.

But because you don't understand or even acknowledge Biblical Symbolism, you mock and insult those with understanding. You sir, are a lost cause.

 

[PlainWord]

EarstoHear,

Revelation 6:2 "And I saw, and behold, a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."


This is not a white ass like Jesus rode into Jerusalem, but is exactly like the white steed that Jesus would ride when He comes at the seventh trumpet, in Revelation 19:11-17. This white horse, and the one that is sitting on it is a copy, a counterfeit of the what will come later. This word for "bow" in the Greek is "toxon", which is not the same "bow" described in Revelation 4:3, God's bow was the rainbow that was "round about the throne of God". This bow that Satan will have when he comes will be a cheep imitation. Satan will come appearing to be what he is not. Satan will be coming as the "instead of Christ", in the role of the Antichrist, for he is the "son of perdition".

This "crown was given unto him," and it means that this false christ is going to rule when he comes. He went forth conquering, and to conquer in the name of religion. In the name of religion, he is going to deceive and confuse the people living on the face of this earth. This is Jesus Christ's first warning to you. Satan is coming to deceive those that are not sealed in their minds with the truth from God's Word. That is why the famine, in the end times, is not for bread but for the Word of God, because people will reject God's Word for the tradition and lying deceptions that will be given in the name of religion. So we see that the person on the white horse will be Satan, disguised as the true Christ. Satan is the false messiah that will come into the world, and he will make the people of the world, living in the flesh think he has come to rapture them away.

You are on the right track. But, have you considered that the first seal has already been opened? You correctly identify the "White Horse" as a phony, a deceiver, a false messiah or could we say "Prophet?" Revelation speaks of two women, right? The Good Woman in Rev 12 is Israel, then the bad woman is the Harlot (Mystery Babylon) in Rev 17-18. If the good woman is Israel and bad woman is related to "the Mother of all False Religions" what would that make the Bad Woman? How about ISLAM and the "BEAST" that carries her would be ISLAMIC nations.

Therefore, the first horse rider is none other than Muhammad who rode a "white animal" like a donkey/mule (similar to Christ) called al-Barrak. Muhammad alleges to have rode this horse from the temple in Jerusalem to heaven (of course in 632 AD there was no temple and no Dome of the Rock).

This makes the Red Horse the Ottoman Empire which is the 7th and Final Beast. The Ottoman Empire was dealt a near fatal blow in 1922 (A mortal wound) but lived, or comes back. We are seeing it come back now with the recently declared new Islamic Caliphate.

 

[PlainWord]

EarstoHear,

Of course, the so-called rapture has not occurred when this first seal takes place. Jesus is warning His disciples so that they will not be received by this fake christ, and if you are living in your flesh body when this occurs you will see Satan in his cheap [toxon] glory when he presents himself to the world. If you think there is a rapture, you have already taken the mark of the beast at this time, for you will think that Satan is Christ. Before this chapter ends, Jesus will tell you exactly when this gathering back to Christ is going to happen.

The above is a bit harsh. Pre-Tribbers have not taken the "mark of the beast." This Mark applies to the followers of Islam.

 

[SIRGEORGIAN]

EarstoHear,



The above is a bit harsh. Pre-Tribbers have not taken the "mark of the beast." This Mark applies to the followers of Islam.

the mark of beast refers to the number of man, 6 referring to the incompleteness of man( imperfect). 666 being the total depravity and state of imperfection of man's kingdom or anyone who doesn't repent and believe in Gospel. (7 is the number representing perfectness and holy, completion.)

in Ephesians chapter one it talks about being sealed in Him. This is also the same language being used in revelation 7:4. (I think) those who are sealed. Further reading it uses multiples of 12( 144,000or total of Gods people) great multitude (same vision of 144,000 just different vantage point (so to speak), 24 ( total number of Gods people new and old covenant). So on and so on.

So it is referring to the incomplete imperfect kingdom of man(666)and the perfect and complete kingdom of God(those who are sealed, 144,000, great multitude.) islam isn't the focal point here. Although they would be part of kingdom of man. The focal point the the completeness of God and his people/kingdom in stark contrast to the imperfect impure kingdom of man.

 

[popeye]

Have you ever considered that you may be deaf and blind, spiritually speaking, of course?

Mark 13:5 "And Jesus answering them began to say, "Take heed lest any many deceive you:"


So the basis of what we are working with here and guarding against, is deception. We have covered twelve chapters now in the book of Mark, and the ones called the "deceivers" are given over and over. They are the ones that have taken God's Word and twisted it to conform to their traditions, and made God's people believe their lies. They are the offspring of the same ones that took Jesus' life, and quite frankly, it is the religious community. The deception will come from the church religious community.


Lets go to Revelation 6, where the seals are listed, to the first seal from Revelation 6 so that we can align within our minds the continuity of God's holy Word. Lets look at the seals of God with the common sense that Jesus gives us here in Mark.


Revelation 6:1 "And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, "Come and see."


This is the first seal that Jesus is going to give us. This is one of the "Zoan", the beasts that guard the throne of God and he is going to do the speaking here. He is telling you to open your mind and see what is going to happen. It is not a secret, but something that is required of all of God's elect to see and understand.


Revelation 6:2 "And I saw, and behold, a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."


This is not a white ass like Jesus rode into Jerusalem, but is exactly like the white steed that Jesus would ride when He comes at the seventh trumpet, in Revelation 19:11-17. This white horse, and the one that is sitting on it is a copy, a counterfeit of the what will come later. This word for "bow" in the Greek is "toxon", which is not the same "bow" described in Revelation 4:3, God's bow was the rainbow that was "round about the throne of God". This bow that Satan will have when he comes will be a cheep imitation. Satan will come appearing to be what he is not. Satan will be coming as the "instead of Christ", in the role of the Antichrist, for he is the "son of perdition".

This "crown was given unto him," and it means that this false christ is going to rule when he comes. He went forth conquering, and to conquer in the name of religion. In the name of religion, he is going to deceive and confuse the people living on the face of this earth. This is Jesus Christ's first warning to you. Satan is coming to deceive those that are not sealed in their minds with the truth from God's Word. That is why the famine, in the end times, is not for bread but for the Word of God, because people will reject God's Word for the tradition and lying deceptions that will be given in the name of religion. So we see that the person on the white horse will be Satan, disguised as the true Christ. Satan is the false messiah that will come into the world, and he will make the people of the world, living in the flesh think he has come to rapture them away.


Of course, the so-called rapture has not occurred when this first seal takes place. Jesus is warning His disciples so that they will not be received by this fake christ, and if you are living in your flesh body when this occurs you will see Satan in his cheap [toxon] glory when he presents himself to the world. If you think there is a rapture, you have already taken the mark of the beast at this time, for you will think that Satan is Christ. Before this chapter ends, Jesus will tell you exactly when this gathering back to Christ is going to happen.

Well lookey there the boy can actually talk.

(but still can't make conversation w/o trashing his opponent)

Juvenile actually.

Btw,you watchtower?

 

[popeye]

EarstoHear,



The above is a bit harsh. Pre-Tribbers have not taken the "mark of the beast." This Mark applies to the followers of Islam.

He needs to look in a mirror and chant his demonic baloney back to himself.

Demonizing members of Jesus' church is childish and unproductive.

I am putting him on ignore. He is cultic and destructive.

 

[JesusIsAll]

He needs to look in a mirror and chant his demonic baloney back to himself.

Demonizing members of Jesus' church is childish and unproductive.

I am putting him on ignore. He is cultic and destructive.

It's informative, though. When somebody is that evil and deceptive, as well as senseless, what does this also say of their viewpoint? Some of the greatest truths of scripture can also be known by the opposition tares throw at those truths. It's all about trying to spread doubt, whether the campaign is against the rapture, grace or eternal security. If faith is of the Lord, who is doubt of?

 

[EarsToHear]

Christianity has always been controversial. After all, they nailed Christ to the cross, beheaded John, fed Christians to the lions, and so on. It will remain so until Christ returns. At that time, the whole world, except for God’s elect, will be worshiping the false one (the instead of Christ).


If you’re not sealed by God, you will be sealed by Satan (mark of the beast). That mark is in your forehead, not on it. What’s in your forehead? Your mind, of course. If you’ve been deceived by false doctrines, such as the rapture, you’ve already taken the mark of the beast.


Satan does some of his best work right from Christian pulpits. If you doubt it, turn your tv on and watch some of these preachers. Are most of them more interested in teaching God’s Word, or are they more interested in filling their pockets with ill-gotten gains?

 

[PlainWord]

the mark of beast refers to the number of man, 6 referring to the incompleteness of man( imperfect). 666 being the total depravity and state of imperfection of man's kingdom or anyone who doesn't repent and believe in Gospel. (7 is the number representing perfectness and holy, completion.)

in Ephesians chapter one it talks about being sealed in Him. This is also the same language being used in revelation 7:4. (I think) those who are sealed. Further reading it uses multiples of 12( 144,000or total of Gods people) great multitude (same vision of 144,000 just different vantage point (so to speak), 24 ( total number of Gods people new and old covenant). So on and so on.

So it is referring to the incomplete imperfect kingdom of man(666)and the perfect and complete kingdom of God(those who are sealed, 144,000, great multitude.) islam isn't the focal point here. Although they would be part of kingdom of man. The focal point the the completeness of God and his people/kingdom in stark contrast to the imperfect impure kingdom of man.

This all sounds nice and yes the number "6" is the number for man. Man (Adam) was created on the 6th day, etc. But the text in Rev 13 doesn't necessarily say 6-6-6. There is an alternative view point here. First, we see in Rev 1 that John was in spirit and was told:

“What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia"

So, John was shown things, images and future events, and he wrote what he saw. In the famous Rev 13, he sees the final beast which is the ISLAMIC beast coming back to life after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. The Harlot being carried by this beast is the false religion ISLAM, which the "kings of the earth" have been following. We all know that Radical Islamic terrorists always shout out, "Allahu Akbar" correct?? This of course means ALLAH is GREATEST.

Bismillah (Arabic: "In the name of God" or "In the name of Allah") is the first word in the Qu'ran and the incipit (the shortened form) of Basmala, the name for the Qu'ran's opening phrase Bismillah hir-Rahman nir-Rahim (Arabic: "In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the most Merciful")

What if John was shown the Bismillah in Arabic and not 666 in Greek?

What instead of writing 6-6-6 in Greek, John instead drew the above symbol which he saw which was in Arabic?

The symbol directly above (translated 600, 60 and 6) could instead be the symbol of the crossed swords and bismillah. If so, this gives an entirely different meaning to the last passage of Rev 13.

 

[PlainWord]

It's informative, though. When somebody is that evil and deceptive, as well as senseless, what does this also say of their viewpoint? Some of the greatest truths of scripture can also be known by the opposition tares throw at those truths. It's all about trying to spread doubt, whether the campaign is against the rapture, grace or eternal security. If faith is of the Lord, who is doubt of?

So I am now "evil" "deceptive" "senseless" and a "tare?" According to Popeye, I "chant demonic baloney."

You say this because I disagree with your view of the timing of the Rapture? Therefore I cannot be a true Christian because I see the Rapture at the end of days and you see it before the Great Tribulation. You have no verse that locates the Rapture before Satan's Great Tribulation. I have plenty that locate the rapture at the End of Days. But I'm the deceptive evil senseless tare? You both need help!!

 

[EarsToHear]

So I am now "evil" "deceptive" "senseless" and a "tare?" According to Popeye, I "chant demonic baloney."

You say this because I disagree with your view of the timing of the Rapture? Therefore I cannot be a true Christian because I see the Rapture at the end of days and you see it before the Great Tribulation. You have no verse that locates the Rapture before Satan's Great Tribulation. I have plenty that locate the rapture at the End of Days. But I'm the deceptive evil senseless tare? You both need help!!

II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"


Paul is now getting to the purpose for this second letter. Paul reminded them of his first letter to them, of Christ returning and our gathering back to Him. Because of the misunderstanding that could be drawn from the first letter, he writes the following.

It's important in this final generation that we pay attention for this will happen during our life time. The subject again of this letter is; "our gathering back to Christ".


II Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is [the Lord is just] at hand."


Paul doesn't want you to misunderstand what he is about to say. This is why he makes it plain and simple; Paul told them not to confuse what he is saying here with any other teaching, or spirit, or even that first letter from him. This is because there was a confusing part in the first letter where false teachers had crept in and twisted Paul's words. The prime example of this today is the twisting of that first letter by the "rapture theorist", to form the trap that has been set for Christians in this final generation.


Paul is saying, don't let anyone trouble you [confuse you], and tell you that the "day of Christ" is at hand. The "day of Christ [the Lord]" is the day when Jesus Christ will return to earth, and gather His saints to Him. This gathering will happen at the sounding of the seventh trumpet. This is one of those tradition's of men [false doctrines] that can deceive you.


II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come [it will not be], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"


Jesus Christ is not gathering anyone to Him, nor is He coming here to earth, except there be a falling away first. The word for "falling away", in the Greek is "apostasy". Jesus told us in His revelation to John, in Revelation 9:11, that "Apollyon" is one of Satan's names, and this name is derived from the word apostasy.


The word "perdition" means "one that perishes". Satan and only Satan has already been condemned to die [to perish] by God. Satan's judgment day has come already back in the first earth age, and he will have no part in the Great White Throne judgment, or any other judgment yet to come. He has already been judged, and sentence by God to death "perdition" [Ezekiel 28 covers this judgment].

What did Paul say again?


Jesus Christ is coming back to this earth, but the saints of Christ will not be gathered to Him until the "son of perdition" [Satan] be revealed first. How will we know who he is when he arrives?

 

[SIRGEORGIAN]

This all sounds nice and yes the number "6" is the number for man. Man (Adam) was created on the 6th day, etc. But the text in Rev 13 doesn't necessarily say 6-6-6. There is an alternative view point here. First, we see in Rev 1 that John was in spirit and was told:

“What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia"

So, John was shown things, images and future events, and he wrote what he saw. In the famous Rev 13, he sees the final beast which is the ISLAMIC beast coming back to life after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. The Harlot being carried by this beast is the false religion ISLAM, which the "kings of the earth" have been following. We all know that Radical Islamic terrorists always shout out, "Allahu Akbar" correct?? This of course means ALLAH is GREATEST.

Bismillah (Arabic: "In the name of God" or "In the name of Allah") is the first word in the Qu'ran and the incipit (the shortened form) of Basmala, the name for the Qu'ran's opening phrase Bismillah hir-Rahman nir-Rahim (Arabic: "In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the most Merciful")

What if John was shown the Bismillah in Arabic and not 666 in Greek?

What instead of writing 6-6-6 in Greek, John instead drew the above symbol which he saw which was in Arabic?

The symbol directly above (translated 600, 60 and 6) could instead be the symbol of the crossed swords and bismillah. If so, this gives an entirely different meaning to the last passage of Rev 13.

in part one could say you could be correct. However, I believe it's more of a "world view" so to speak. All those who oppose God have taken the mark, Islam, atheist, satanists, Buddhist, Hindu, all other false gods have taken the mark and are proudly wearing it. Christianity, followers of Christ are sealed in him.

So so yes what you are speaking of is interesting but what happens to all other worldviews? It can't be just one cult revelation speaks of because that would infer, in my opinion, a kind of unilateralism. As long as you are not Islam then God over looks you at end times. Or all roads lead to heaven except Islam. We all know the bible doesn't teach this. But yes very interesting.

 

[PlainWord]

Christianity has always been controversial. After all, they nailed Christ to the cross, beheaded John, fed Christians to the lions, and so on. It will remain so until Christ returns. At that time, the whole world, except for God’s elect, will be worshiping the false one (the instead of Christ).


If you’re not sealed by God, you will be sealed by Satan (mark of the beast). That mark is in your forehead, not on it. What’s in your forehead? Your mind, of course. If you’ve been deceived by false doctrines, such as the rapture, you’ve already taken the mark of the beast.


Satan does some of his best work right from Christian pulpits. If you doubt it, turn your tv on and watch some of these preachers. Are most of them more interested in teaching God’s Word, or are they more interested in filling their pockets with ill-gotten gains?

I agree with you concerning the timing of the Rapture. It is obviously not before the Great Tribulation and nothing locates it there, except those deceived by Darby. These Darbyites view of the end times is so twisted and false that they cannot understand anything about End Times Prophesy. They see an European AntiChrist coming to deceive all of mankind after the Rapture of the Church. They see a huge revival of new "Tribulation" saints which the AntiChrist then slaughters. They see the AntiChrist forcing everyone to take a computer chip in their head or right hand. All of this thinking is whacked-out nut job ideology of clueless men such as Darby, Tim LaHaye and plenty of others.

The whole world will not receive the mark, just those who dwell on the earth which are Muslims. The Earth is not the whole Planet. It is the known world to John and Daniel. It is clear that the Bible does not deal with the entire planet but rather Israel and those who surround her and impact her.

The Great Tribulation happens in Israel as Jesus tells us in Mat 24.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Nobody else is told to flee, just those in Judea. Daniel confirms it is a Nation, not the whole planet involved in Dan 12:

And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time.

Jeremiah also confirms this in Jer 30:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Alas! For that day is great, So that none is like it; And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble, But he shall be saved out of it.

Thus the GREAT TRIBULATION = TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE

In this context we see that Christ was speaking only of things to come to Israel in the Olivet. When Christ warns "not to be deceived" He is telling those in Israel not to be deceived by the Muslim world around her (the Earth).

Once this is understood, then we can know who the "wheat" and "tares" are.

What grows together in Israel? Muslims and Jews, right? They are hard to distinguish between so let them grow together until the harvest. Then the Muslims will be taken out of the Kingdom where Christ is to reign. Muslims are taken to "the Body" where the Eagles are Gathered.

 

[PlainWord]

II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"


Paul is now getting to the purpose for this second letter. Paul reminded them of his first letter to them, of Christ returning and our gathering back to Him. Because of the misunderstanding that could be drawn from the first letter, he writes the following.

It's important in this final generation that we pay attention for this will happen during our life time. The subject again of this letter is; "our gathering back to Christ".


II Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is [the Lord is just] at hand."


Paul doesn't want you to misunderstand what he is about to say. This is why he makes it plain and simple; Paul told them not to confuse what he is saying here with any other teaching, or spirit, or even that first letter from him. This is because there was a confusing part in the first letter where false teachers had crept in and twisted Paul's words. The prime example of this today is the twisting of that first letter by the "rapture theorist", to form the trap that has been set for Christians in this final generation.


Paul is saying, don't let anyone trouble you [confuse you], and tell you that the "day of Christ" is at hand. The "day of Christ [the Lord]" is the day when Jesus Christ will return to earth, and gather His saints to Him. This gathering will happen at the sounding of the seventh trumpet. This is one of those tradition's of men [false doctrines] that can deceive you.


II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come [it will not be], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"


Jesus Christ is not gathering anyone to Him, nor is He coming here to earth, except there be a falling away first. The word for "falling away", in the Greek is "apostasy". Jesus told us in His revelation to John, in Revelation 9:11, that "Apollyon" is one of Satan's names, and this name is derived from the word apostasy.


The word "perdition" means "one that perishes". Satan and only Satan has already been condemned to die [to perish] by God. Satan's judgment day has come already back in the first earth age, and he will have no part in the Great White Throne judgment, or any other judgment yet to come. He has already been judged, and sentence by God to death "perdition" [Ezekiel 28 covers this judgment].

What did Paul say again?


Jesus Christ is coming back to this earth, but the saints of Christ will not be gathered to Him until the "son of perdition" [Satan] be revealed first. How will we know who he is when he arrives?

I am pretty much in total agreement with everything you said here.

If there was any doubt as to the timing of Christ Return, Paul clears that up in 2 Thes.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, [SUP]5 [/SUP]which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; [SUP]6 [/SUP]since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, [SUP]7 [/SUP]and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, [SUP]8 [/SUP]in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We see God's People are enduring Tribulation. Then we see God REPAYING the wicked who have been persecuting His people (ISRAEL). The "rest" comes when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels. Then comes the Wrath of the Lamb that we see at the 6th seal. Here comes the vengeance.

As we know from Mat 24, The Great Tribulation or persecution of the Jews, is over before Christ is revealed again, from heaven.

[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn...

If there is any doubt about WHO has been persecuting the Jews, just turn on the TV. Or you can let Paul tell us from Gal 4:

[SUP]29 [/SUP]But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Those born according to the flesh are off the Bondwoman (Hagar, the Egyptian) and her son, Ishmael, the Father of Muslims.

Pretty clear to me and current events are in perfect alignment.