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K
What did I add ???
Please stop passing off false accusations without giving proof, that is what the spirit of antichrist does !!!
I gave a clear scripture from the Lord Jesus that states what I said that if we deny Him before men, He will deny us before the Father.
God's Word shows that denying comes in other forms besides just He does not exist, as the Word of God shows that people can deny Him by their actions. From Matthew 25 to Titus 1:6 shows this denial.......
Hebrews 13:2 even speaks on being careful to show love and hospitality to all because you might be entertaining an angel unaware. And you don't want them to go back and report you were rude or unloving to them !!!
this part below..is you adding on....that is your words..your interpretation ...but it's ok..we know what you believe..it's all cool..
This is what Jesus was saying by "He never knew them", as they denied Him before men by continuing to live deliberate sinful lifestyles....................Thus He denied them !!!
This is what Jesus was saying by "He never knew them", as they denied Him before men by continuing to live deliberate sinful lifestyles....................Thus He denied them !!!
King James Bible
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
K
Watched the video and Steve Gregg put Tommy Bertoli in his place a number of times, and all Bertoli could do by the end of the video is complain there is no scripture that has the exact words "lose salvation" in them.
Steve reversed it on him and said show a verse that says a believer who then goes apostate will keep salvation, and Tommy could not respond and at first was lost by the question.
Let me ask you a question. How did you receive your Salvation?
Did you receive your Salvation by digging a hole in the ground? Did you receive your Salvation by becoming a member of a group?
Or did you receive your Salvation by believing that Jesus is God and confessing with your mouth that Jesus is God?
The point being if we receive Salvation by our WORKS then yes we can lose our Salvation. But if we have received our Salvation by Faith and Grace then how can we lose our Salvation by sinning?
Ephesians 2:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.
We have received our Salvation by the Faith God HAS given to us and by the Grace of God!
The ONLY way anyone can lose their Salvation is by rejecting Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. There is no other way to lose your Salvation. You cannot lose it by sinning because you were a sinner when you received your Salvation! And receiving Salvation is NOT based on us being without sin!
Did you receive your Salvation by digging a hole in the ground? Did you receive your Salvation by becoming a member of a group?
Or did you receive your Salvation by believing that Jesus is God and confessing with your mouth that Jesus is God?
The point being if we receive Salvation by our WORKS then yes we can lose our Salvation. But if we have received our Salvation by Faith and Grace then how can we lose our Salvation by sinning?
Ephesians 2:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.
We have received our Salvation by the Faith God HAS given to us and by the Grace of God!
The ONLY way anyone can lose their Salvation is by rejecting Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. There is no other way to lose your Salvation. You cannot lose it by sinning because you were a sinner when you received your Salvation! And receiving Salvation is NOT based on us being without sin!
Hi - I would like to briefly address this topic.
First beginning with this verse -
Lu 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? (KJV)
From this verse it can be understood that people who call themselves saved are saved from the wrath of God.
We know that the wrath of God is visited against all ungodliness - Romans 1:18.
We are therefore saved from God's wrath against sin by the grace of God.
For by Grace you are saved .....
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
So if The grace of God saved us from God's wrath we need to understand God's Grace.
Tit 2:11 ¶ For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
God's Grace teaches us not to sin. That is how sinful people (everyone has sinned) are saved from the wrath of God. God's grace teaches them not to sin thereby avoiding the inevitable wrath visited upon ungodliness.
Notice that Rm 1:18 tells us that the wrath of God is visited against ungodliness. Titus 2:12 tells us that grace teaches us to deny ungodliness.
By putting these two concepts together we can arrive at the Phrase found in Eph 2:8 -
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Having eternal life is dependent upon maintaining faith. Being saved is dependent upon denying ungodly behavior.
When the two concepts -
1. being saved
2. having eternal life
- are confused or considered the same thing the result is confusion of mind concerning this topic.
Brian
First beginning with this verse -
Lu 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? (KJV)
From this verse it can be understood that people who call themselves saved are saved from the wrath of God.
We know that the wrath of God is visited against all ungodliness - Romans 1:18.
We are therefore saved from God's wrath against sin by the grace of God.
For by Grace you are saved .....
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
So if The grace of God saved us from God's wrath we need to understand God's Grace.
Tit 2:11 ¶ For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
God's Grace teaches us not to sin. That is how sinful people (everyone has sinned) are saved from the wrath of God. God's grace teaches them not to sin thereby avoiding the inevitable wrath visited upon ungodliness.
Notice that Rm 1:18 tells us that the wrath of God is visited against ungodliness. Titus 2:12 tells us that grace teaches us to deny ungodliness.
By putting these two concepts together we can arrive at the Phrase found in Eph 2:8 -
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Having eternal life is dependent upon maintaining faith. Being saved is dependent upon denying ungodly behavior.
When the two concepts -
1. being saved
2. having eternal life
- are confused or considered the same thing the result is confusion of mind concerning this topic.
Brian
Hi Brian!..glad to meet you!
I think I get what you are saying..... just for clarification....
1) can one not be "saved" and have eternal life?..
2) .or does being "saved" have to do with our quality of life on this earth?
Sometimes the "meanings" of words mean different things to different people ..know what I mean?....
I think I get what you are saying..... just for clarification....
1) can one not be "saved" and have eternal life?..
2) .or does being "saved" have to do with our quality of life on this earth?
Sometimes the "meanings" of words mean different things to different people ..know what I mean?....
Hi Brian!..glad to meet you!
I think I get what you are saying..... just for clarification....
1) can one not be "saved" and have eternal life?..
2) .or does being "saved" have to do with our quality of life on this earth?
Sometimes the "meanings" of words mean different things to different people ..know what I mean?....
I think I get what you are saying..... just for clarification....
1) can one not be "saved" and have eternal life?..
2) .or does being "saved" have to do with our quality of life on this earth?
Sometimes the "meanings" of words mean different things to different people ..know what I mean?....
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. (KJV)
We are all taught to deny ungodliness throughout our lives.
These are new thoughts but here are some links for you - www.brmicke.yolasite.com
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I tend to agree with you..we have "tossed around" the term "saved" and we put connotations around it. To some it means going to heaven..to others it means having a quality of life here on the earth...to others it might be a combination of the two.
I agree 100% that the true grace of Christ teaches us to deny ungodliness and to walk uprightly in this world. It's a wonderful thing!
Thanks for the link..i will check it out later..,,.
I agree 100% that the true grace of Christ teaches us to deny ungodliness and to walk uprightly in this world. It's a wonderful thing!
Thanks for the link..i will check it out later..,,.
K
This that I put in bold of what you have said is the common misconception that Grace only (hyper-grace) people make.
This is a straw-man argument that nobody is saying..................
Nobody, not any true believer I know of, believes we are saved by works. Those works are a product of proof of one who is saved in the faith in Christ.
It takes faith in Christ to be saved unto salvation, not works, and that faith is an active faith full of the fruit of the Holy Spirit. The faith means abiding in Christ, and Him in us, as there is no salvation outside of Christ !!!
How can we tell if one is in the faith or not ???
Their actions will be proof of this as the bible clearly shows, if a person is continuing to live a deliberate sinful lifestyle then the Word of God clearly says they are not of or in Christ.
The problem also stems from using a verse like Ephesians 2:8-9 that speaks on Christ being sent in the flesh and dying on the cross for our sins, and risen on the third day as the Grace shown to us that nobody did anything to deserve. To take this verse and apply it to the walk of the believer, which can not be done !!!
The walk is proof of one who is saved or not, not what does the saving !!!
How can we tell if one is in the faith or not ???
Their actions will be proof of this as the bible clearly shows, if a person is continuing to live a deliberate sinful lifestyle then the Word of God clearly says they are not of or in Christ.
The walk is proof of one who is saved or not, not what does the saving !!![/QUOTE]
How much proof do I need to convince others I'm a true believer? There's been times, seasons in my life where I was a pathetic wretched man, and if you were to follow me around, I did nothing to prove I was a Christian.
Please explain the man in 1 Corinthians 3 that had the foundation settled but had no works abide through the fire, yet that man was saved because his foundation was sure. 2 Timothy 2:19, "Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his."
Should we go on unto good works? Absolutely, but some are not discipled properly, have no Bible, no Church, to encourage, to teach, to show him the way. Thank the Lord, the foundation is sure.
Their actions will be proof of this as the bible clearly shows, if a person is continuing to live a deliberate sinful lifestyle then the Word of God clearly says they are not of or in Christ.
The walk is proof of one who is saved or not, not what does the saving !!![/QUOTE]
How much proof do I need to convince others I'm a true believer? There's been times, seasons in my life where I was a pathetic wretched man, and if you were to follow me around, I did nothing to prove I was a Christian.
Please explain the man in 1 Corinthians 3 that had the foundation settled but had no works abide through the fire, yet that man was saved because his foundation was sure. 2 Timothy 2:19, "Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his."
Should we go on unto good works? Absolutely, but some are not discipled properly, have no Bible, no Church, to encourage, to teach, to show him the way. Thank the Lord, the foundation is sure.
How much proof do I need to convince others I'm a true believer? There's been times, seasons in my life where I was a pathetic wretched man, and if you were to follow me around, I did nothing to prove I was a Christian.
Please explain the man in 1 Corinthians 3 that had the foundation settled but had no works abide through the fire, yet that man was saved because his foundation was sure. 2 Timothy 2:19, "Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his."
Should we go on unto good works? Absolutely, but some are not discipled properly, have no Bible, no Church, to encourage, to teach, to show him the way. Thank the Lord, the foundation is sure.[/QUOTE]
Being saved means being saved from the wrath of God as it is expressed against sin. The wrath of God in the Nt is referred to as fire --
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
1Co 3:11 ¶ For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Faith in Christ is the foundation. If a person builds upon their faith with using good material they will receive a reward.
The good material would be activities conforming to the doctrinal principles of the Bible.
The material that is burned was built using incorrect building material.
Take for example groups that can be called fringe or cultic. God has given them faith in Christ and they build upon that gift of faith that was given to them by incorporating man made doctrinal interpretations which lead to semi or non Christian activities.
These people have been offered/given the ability to become the sons of God. Now I will get into doctrine a bit at this point.
The "day" is of course the day of the Lord which is a point of evaluation/judgment by God. The day is that point in time in which the materials used to build upon the persons faith are evaluated. Hence the receiving of rewards or subsequent Loss are the results of this evaluation.
1 Cor 11:32 says when we (Christians) are judged we are disciplined by God in order to avoid the condemnation of the unbelievers.
So right away we know that judgment is not final condemnation. The judgement of the Day (or the Lord) sis omething God used to correct the unwise behavior of the person to whom He has given faith.
Hell (fire) was a place created for the Devil and His angels to dwell. Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
We know that hell can touch a person from James 3:6 where the tongue is set on fire by Hell.
Since the Devil comes only to steal kill etc... to be touched by fire after the point of evaluation or time of judgment is the Loss mentioned in 1 Cor 3:15.
Job was disciplined by the powers of darkness and then rewarded afterwards.
Christian life is a growth process (grow in grace) and the Day of the Lord is a time of evaluation. Sometimes Christians sin -- this is simply a fact. Sometimes they sin knowingly/willfully.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
According to this verse the Christians who sin willfully expect judgment resulting in the loss spoken of in 1 Cor 3:15.
God will allow the fire (Devil and His angels) to touch the Christian in the manner and to the extent that is necessary to being the errant brother back to a place called "in Christ", 2 Jn 1:9. Being in Christ the person conforms to the teachings of Christ which were summarized by Jesus as "Love" or patience and kindness to everyone, Matt 22:40.
Brian
http://brmicke.yolasite.com/grace-vs-works.php
Please explain the man in 1 Corinthians 3 that had the foundation settled but had no works abide through the fire, yet that man was saved because his foundation was sure. 2 Timothy 2:19, "Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his."
Should we go on unto good works? Absolutely, but some are not discipled properly, have no Bible, no Church, to encourage, to teach, to show him the way. Thank the Lord, the foundation is sure.[/QUOTE]
Being saved means being saved from the wrath of God as it is expressed against sin. The wrath of God in the Nt is referred to as fire --
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
1Co 3:11 ¶ For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Faith in Christ is the foundation. If a person builds upon their faith with using good material they will receive a reward.
The good material would be activities conforming to the doctrinal principles of the Bible.
The material that is burned was built using incorrect building material.
Take for example groups that can be called fringe or cultic. God has given them faith in Christ and they build upon that gift of faith that was given to them by incorporating man made doctrinal interpretations which lead to semi or non Christian activities.
These people have been offered/given the ability to become the sons of God. Now I will get into doctrine a bit at this point.
The "day" is of course the day of the Lord which is a point of evaluation/judgment by God. The day is that point in time in which the materials used to build upon the persons faith are evaluated. Hence the receiving of rewards or subsequent Loss are the results of this evaluation.
1 Cor 11:32 says when we (Christians) are judged we are disciplined by God in order to avoid the condemnation of the unbelievers.
So right away we know that judgment is not final condemnation. The judgement of the Day (or the Lord) sis omething God used to correct the unwise behavior of the person to whom He has given faith.
Hell (fire) was a place created for the Devil and His angels to dwell. Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
We know that hell can touch a person from James 3:6 where the tongue is set on fire by Hell.
Since the Devil comes only to steal kill etc... to be touched by fire after the point of evaluation or time of judgment is the Loss mentioned in 1 Cor 3:15.
Job was disciplined by the powers of darkness and then rewarded afterwards.
Christian life is a growth process (grow in grace) and the Day of the Lord is a time of evaluation. Sometimes Christians sin -- this is simply a fact. Sometimes they sin knowingly/willfully.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
According to this verse the Christians who sin willfully expect judgment resulting in the loss spoken of in 1 Cor 3:15.
God will allow the fire (Devil and His angels) to touch the Christian in the manner and to the extent that is necessary to being the errant brother back to a place called "in Christ", 2 Jn 1:9. Being in Christ the person conforms to the teachings of Christ which were summarized by Jesus as "Love" or patience and kindness to everyone, Matt 22:40.
Brian
http://brmicke.yolasite.com/grace-vs-works.php
G
Hi there, maybe this can help you.
1Jn 4:12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwells in us, and His love is perfected in us.
1Jn 4:13 By this we know that we dwell in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
1Jn 4:15 Whoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwells in him and he in God.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.
1Jn 5:10 He who believes on the Son of God has the witness in himself.
As for Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works?
Maybe they were relying on their works and on their own righteousness instead of faith in Christ?
Read these passages;
Gal 2:16 knowing that a man is not justified by works of the Law, but through faith in Jesus Christ; even we believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith in Christ, and not by works of the Law. For all flesh will not be justified by works of law.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Tit 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
hope this helps
1Jn 4:12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwells in us, and His love is perfected in us.
1Jn 4:13 By this we know that we dwell in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
1Jn 4:15 Whoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwells in him and he in God.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.
1Jn 5:10 He who believes on the Son of God has the witness in himself.
As for Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works?
Maybe they were relying on their works and on their own righteousness instead of faith in Christ?
Read these passages;
Gal 2:16 knowing that a man is not justified by works of the Law, but through faith in Jesus Christ; even we believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith in Christ, and not by works of the Law. For all flesh will not be justified by works of law.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Tit 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
hope this helps
NIV. Philippians 1:6 and Ephesians 1:13-14
being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
I don't know what your addiction is and don't want to go into that here on a public forum. But seek help if you haven't, because The Lord calls servants with the gifts and ability to do just that kind of help with those struggling with various types of addictions. Seek out a pastor's counsel who can suggest where to get help, and then keep praying about it asking our Heavenly Father through His Son in His Name to give you the strength to overcome it.