Once Saved, Always Saved?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#81
That's the way Martin Luther looked at it. He envisioned GOD as riding man's free will like a horse with a bridle in his mouth turning it wheresoever he will ("it was ridden either by God or the devil"). Quite a bizarre concept of GOD actually.
yeah it is.

Good thing we do not think of it that way, But i am sure you will tell us we are wrong..we do not know what we believe

it also does not even come close to responding to valients Post.

He said, "God said I will"

He did not say, God will ride on a horse, and take you there, or satan will ride it and pull you back"

He said, God said I WILL SAVE YOU, and he will do it.





 
Sep 4, 2012
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#82
Where did I say that? I spoke about GOD changing our hearts once and for all,
It seemed that you were saying that in terms of salvation man cannot oppose GOD's will. That would suggest a belief that man does not have free will, which is what Martin Luther believed.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#83
Where did I say that? I spoke about GOD changing our hearts once and for all,

That is how herose figures things out, He read things from people who lived centuries ago. And I think he has an excel spreadsheet of everything they believed. He listens to us, finds key words, then pop. He knows what we believe...


So when we say God said he would accomplish something, He rose sees it as Luther supposedly said, God riding on a horse.. (SMH)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#84
It seemed that you were saying that in terms of salvation man cannot oppose GOD's will. That would suggest a belief that man does not have free will, which is what Martin Luther believed.

So now luther is calvanist? What about all the gnostics??
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#85
It seemed that you were saying that in terms of salvation man cannot oppose GOD's will. That would suggest a belief that man does not have free will, which is what Martin Luther believed.
When your dad said he would make a living to support you when you grew up, and put a roof over your head. And take care of you as his son.

did you think your dad was overruling your free will?? Or your dad meant he was going to climb on your back like a horse and stear you??


I can not fathom your thought process. It is stuck in the past. And founded on all these ancient men long since dead.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#86
When your dad said he would make a living to support you when you grew up, and put a roof over your head. And take care of you as his son.

did you think your dad was overruling your free will?? Or your dad meant he was going to climb on your back like a horse and stear you??


I can not fathom your thought process. It is stuck in the past. And founded on all these ancient men long since dead.
His thought process. I had trouble with that too. Until I realized that HRFTD denies the Christian understanding of the nature of God as Triune, a Trinity. To see where a person is, it helps to know where they are coming from.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#87
His thought process. I had trouble with that too. Until I realized that HRFTD denies the Christian understanding of the nature of God as Triune, a Trinity. To see where a person is, it helps to know where they are coming from.

I knew it when he started calling everyone gnostic, when it was clear he did not even know what gnosticism believed,


I did not know he denied the trinity though, wow.. How did Jesus pay the sin for all of mankind..

Oh wait, he does not believe he did.. Now it makes sense.
 

Vdp

Banned
Nov 18, 2015
479
8
0
#88
Let me ask you one question. Did you receive your Salvation by working for it by not sinning or did you receive your Salvation by Faith?

IF you had received your Salvation by not sinning then yes you can lose your Salvation by sinning.

But, you have received your Salvation by Faith that Jesus is God. So how can you lose your Salvation by sinning?

Not sinning is not a condition needed to receive Salvation!

I'm not saying that you can sin all you want. What i'm saying is we will sin everyday but we cannot lose our Salvation by sinning.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#89
Let me ask you one question. Did you receive your Salvation by working for it by not sinning or did you receive your Salvation by Faith?

IF you had received your Salvation by not sinning then yes you can lose your Salvation by sinning.

But, you have received your Salvation by Faith that Jesus is God. So how can you lose your Salvation by sinning?

Not sinning is not a condition needed to receive Salvation!

I'm not saying that you can sin all you want. What i'm saying is we will sin everyday but we cannot lose our Salvation by sinning.
Ask Jesus.

​Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 7:21
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#90
Ask Jesus.

​Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 7:21
Ah, So those who have true faith will get into heaven.

Then how could they ever lose salvation?
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
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#91
Your faith is a daily affirmation of what you believe and accept to be true. If one day you lose that faith, then you lose salvation. Your saved as long as you believe in the one who can save you. Have a change of heart, deny what you once believed, and 'always saved' goes out the door.

For me, the danger of the expression 'osas', is that it falsely reassures hypocrites. Anyone can fall away, and anyone can refuse to repent. Reassuring others that they're saved no matter what, is tantamount to Satan telling Eve "Ye shall not surely die". While the saving power of Christ is undeniable, the possibility of our choice to believe in him can always waiver... jmo
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#92
Your faith is a daily affirmation of what you believe and accept to be true. If one day you lose that faith, then you lose salvation. Your saved as long as you believe in the one who can save you. Have a change of heart, deny what you once believed, and 'always saved' goes out the door.


No one, who has faith in a God who NEVER LETS THEM DOWN, will ever lose faith

That is just a strawman.


For me, the danger of the expression 'osas', is that it falsely reassures hypocrites. Anyone can fall away, and anyone can refuse to repent. Reassuring others that they're saved no matter what, is tantamount to Satan telling Eve "Ye shall not surely die". While the saving power of Christ is undeniable, the possibility of our choice to believe in him can always waiver... jmo
That was already handles by Jude and other NT apostles.

Not everyone who claims to be saved is saved. There are alot of impostors..


The Danger of teaching eternal security is a lie, Is that we take credit, it becomes performed based, and many will fail, because when they read scripture. they realise they can not live up to Gods standard. Or people who will go to Jesus on judgment day, Proclaim all their works, Thinking they are saved, And having jesus tell them he never knew them.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#93
Your faith is a daily affirmation of what you believe and accept to be true. If one day you lose that faith, then you lose salvation. Your saved as long as you believe in the one who can save you. Have a change of heart, deny what you once believed, and 'always saved' goes out the door.

For me, the danger of the expression 'osas', is that it falsely reassures hypocrites. Anyone can fall away, and anyone can refuse to repent. Reassuring others that they're saved no matter what, is tantamount to Satan telling Eve "Ye shall not surely die". While the saving power of Christ is undeniable, the possibility of our choice to believe in him can always waiver... jmo

2 Timothy 2:13

"If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#94
It seemed that you were saying that in terms of salvation man cannot oppose GOD's will. That would suggest a belief that man does not have free will, which is what Martin Luther believed.
do you really think you can oppose God's will? man can choose, but his will is not free
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#95
do you really think you can oppose God's will? man can choose, but his will is not free
Man's free will is simply the ability to choose. The conflation of free will with ability started with Augustine's gnostic error and was perpetuated by the reformers and Jansenists. The church fathers before these witnessed man's will is indeed free.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#96
Your faith is a daily affirmation of what you believe and accept to be true. If one day you lose that faith, then you lose salvation. Your saved as long as you believe in the one who can save you. Have a change of heart, deny what you once believed, and 'always saved' goes out the door.

For me, the danger of the expression 'osas', is that it falsely reassures hypocrites. Anyone can fall away, and anyone can refuse to repent. Reassuring others that they're saved no matter what, is tantamount to Satan telling Eve "Ye shall not surely die". While the saving power of Christ is undeniable, the possibility of our choice to believe in him can always waiver... jmo

Faith is the channel through which we receive salvation. GRACE (God's compassion, goodness and love) is the means by which we are saved.

Being justified FREELY by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through His blood, through faith
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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#97
2 Timothy 2:13

"If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."
Hello FreeNChrist,

To claim OSAS, one would have to explain the following scriptures, just to name a few:

"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

In order to receive the promise of eternal life, the branches/believers must remain faithful in Christ. If not, then they cannot bear fruit and are good for nothing but to be broken off and thrown into the fire.

"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The scripture above is directed towards servants, for he calls the Lord, "Master." If that servant goes back to living according to the sinful nature (beating his fellow servants, eating and drinking with drunkards (partying)), then that servant will be treated as an unbeliever, a hypocrite.

My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, consider this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

The scripture above is also directed to believer's, for the example is to those who are in Christ. Notice that if a believer wanders away from the truth, then in that state they are accumulating a multitude of sins and are on their way to death. When a believer stops having faith and goes back to living according to the sinful nature, then they have wandered away from faith.

There is no such thing as OSAS, for all of the promises through Christ require the believer to continue from faith to faith, from first to last.
 
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20

Senior Member
Dec 15, 2015
351
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#98
It's no Power in this World, can remove His Salvation from us.The next verses say about, KJV.Romans8;38-39,38.For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,39.Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.Unfortunately, many of Christians don't believe in this verses.If they stay in this condition, The possibly another issue on this way,How valid are their Salvation, How they can lose it if they never had it.Is it Salvation without faith?
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#99
Hello FreeNChrist,

To claim OSAS, one would have to explain the following scriptures, just to name a few:

"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

In order to receive the promise of eternal life, the branches/believers must remain faithful in Christ. If not, then they cannot bear fruit and are good for nothing but to be broken off and thrown into the fire.

"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The scripture above is directed towards servants, for he calls the Lord, "Master." If that servant goes back to living according to the sinful nature (beating his fellow servants, eating and drinking with drunkards (partying)), then that servant will be treated as an unbeliever, a hypocrite.

My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, consider this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

The scripture above is also directed to believer's, for the example is to those who are in Christ. Notice that if a believer wanders away from the truth, then in that state they are accumulating a multitude of sins and are on their way to death. When a believer stops having faith and goes back to living according to the sinful nature, then they have wandered away from faith.

There is no such thing as OSAS, for all of the promises through Christ require the believer to continue from faith to faith, from first to last.

2 Corinthians 1:20

"For all of God’s promises have been fulfilled in Christ with a resounding “Yes!” And through Christ, our “Amen” (which means “Yes”) ascends to God for His glory."