James 2?

[Scriptureplz]

One of the problems people have in understanding the epistle of James is everytime they see the word "save" in the bible they automatically think it means "to eternal life". That is not the case in this epistle. James writes his epistle to Christian Jews (James 2:1,5,14) . Eternal life is not in question and is not the focus, the focus is "exercising the salvation they already have" (Dr. Cucuzza). The word "brethren" is used 15 times in the book of James. This epistle is written about service, not salvation. I encourage everyone to take the time to listen to this message from Dr. Tom Cucuzza and understand once and for all what the epistle of James is really about. The truth shall set you free!

This is part one of two, and is about 40 minutes.

Faith Without Works Is Dead Part 1 | SermonAudio.com

 

[Grace777x70]

One of the problems people have in understanding the epistle of James is everytime they see the word "save" in the bible they automatically think it means "to eternal life". That is not the case in this epistle. James writes his epistle to Christian Jews (James 2:1,5,14) . Eternal life is not in question and is not the focus, the focus is "exercising the salvation they already have" (Dr. Cucuzza). The word "brethren" is used 15 times in the book of James. This epistle is written about service, not salvation. I encourage everyone to take the time to listen to this message from Dr. Tom Cucuzza and understand once and for all what the epistle of James is really about. The truth shall set you free!

This is part one of two, and is about 40 minutes.

Faith Without Works Is Dead Part 1 | SermonAudio.com

I agree...our religious upbringing has hi-jacked some words and we only think about them as we were taught. Salvation/saving for going to heaven is one verses saving of our lives while on this earth - is a good example.

Thanks for the link - I'm going to listen to it now.

 

[garee]

The conflict I believe comes from not having a proper understanding as to the "manner of faith" or "spirit of faith", the unseen. In respect to whose faith?

I am not anyone’s teacher I share my opinions as private interpretation as a personal commentary just as any man .

From my experience’s men usually do not want to relate faith with something that God performs .They say God does not need faith, to show their kind of reasoning.

So we have two manners of faith. Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of God towards us . Or our reaction to it, that we offer towards Him, as some do, as if it first came from our own self, the imaginations of ones heart.?

The later would be considered dead works. The first again in respect to the anointing Holy Spirit of Christ ,the living faith that works in the believer heart to both will and do the good pleasure of God.

It is that which seems to get over looked when looking at the chapter 2 .

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Two ways faith is generated........... of Christ (coming from).........or of men. (coming from)

Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

Having it in respect to men our owns self-shows blasphemy of His Holy name. We are to have no gods before our living God and that includes one own self or the guy across the street .

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Just another man's opinion

 

[Scriptureplz]

To include some scripture is necessary here I think because I know some will not take the time to listen to this. Especially if they think it might interfere with their own understanding of this epistle.

Some key verses showing believers are addressed by James.

James 1:2-3[SUP] - [/SUP]My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;[SUP]3 [/SUP]Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

"your faith" indicates these are believers in the gospel.

James 1:4-5[SUP] - [/SUP]But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.[SUP]5 [/SUP]If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

"that ye may be perfect"........."perfect" is a reference to maturity. Can an unbeliever mature as a Christian? "Let him as God." Can he ask God for anything other than salvation?

These are just a couple of passages that indicate believers are being addressed. To understand context of any passage it must be determined who is being addressed. The epistle of James is of such importance to be understood correctly. Why not give this message some time out of your day to see this view and determine to yourself if Dr. Cucuzza has it interpreted correctly?

 

[God4me]

One of the problems people have in understanding the epistle of James is everytime they see the word "save" in the bible they automatically think it means "to eternal life". That is not the case in this epistle. James writes his epistle to Christian Jews (James 2:1,5,14) . Eternal life is not in question and is not the focus, the focus is "exercising the salvation they already have" (Dr. Cucuzza). The word "brethren" is used 15 times in the book of James. This epistle is written about service, not salvation. I encourage everyone to take the time to listen to this message from Dr. Tom Cucuzza and understand once and for all what the epistle of James is really about. The truth shall set you free!

This is part one of two, and is about 40 minutes.

Faith Without Works Is Dead Part 1 | SermonAudio.com

You are right, The Greek word for "Save", Is, "Sozo", and has many meanings, For instance.
Saved from the stormy sea, Matt 14: 30. Receiving sight. Lk 18: 42.
James isn't talking about works for salvation or justification before God, Abraham was already justified before God, way before he offered up Isaac. James was talking about being justified before people. James 2: 18.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You are right, The Greek word for "Save", Is, "Sozo", and has many meanings, For instance.
Saved from the stormy sea, Matt 14: 30. Receiving sight. Lk 18: 42.
James isn't talking about works for salvation or justification before God, Abraham was already justified before God, way before he offered up Isaac. James was talking about being justified before people. James 2: 18.

This is nonsense. The ungodly try to justify themselves before men.

And he said to them, “You are the ones who justify themselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts! For [what is considered] exalted among men [is] an abomination in the sight of God. Luke 16:15​

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by God4me

You are right, The Greek word for "Save", Is, "Sozo", and has many meanings, For instance.
Saved from the stormy sea, Matt 14: 30. Receiving sight. Lk 18: 42.
James isn't talking about works for salvation or justification before God, Abraham was already justified before God, way before he offered up Isaac. James was talking about being justified before people. James 2: 18.

This is nonsense. The ungodly try to justify themselves before men.

And he said to them, “You are the ones who justify themselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts! For [what is considered] exalted among men [is] an abomination in the sight of God. Luke 16:15​

isn't that what he was saying?

both the godly and the ungodly justify themselves before men

 

[crossnote]

To include some scripture is necessary here I think because I know some will not take the time to listen to this. Especially if they think it might interfere with their own understanding of this epistle.

I doubt that is the case at all.

And no offense,the teaching is probably quite good.
But if 10 people posted 10 video/audio sermons 45 min. each, and expected everyone to listen, it would take a person 450 min or 7hrs : 50 min. to get through them all. Thus having no time to post. It's best to give us a synopsis and open it up for discussion than expect others to trudge through all the sermons posted.

 

[Scriptureplz]

I doubt that is the case at all.

And no offense,the teaching is probably quite good.
But if 10 people posted 10 video/audio sermons 45 min. each, and expected everyone to listen, it would take a person 450 min or 7hrs : 50 min. to get through them all. Thus having no time to post. It's best to give us a synopsis and open it up for discussion than expect others to trudge through all the sermons posted.

I guess people can pick and choose based on their own preferences of what they want/need to listen to and make time for it if they believe it to be an important part of their belief system. I would think it would be at the top of anyone's list to understand what this epistle teaches.

 

[God4me]

This is nonsense. The ungodly try to justify themselves before men.

And he said to them, “You are the ones who justify themselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts! For [what is considered] exalted among men [is] an abomination in the sight of God. Luke 16:15​

Why do you call the Bible, "Nonsense", I have given you scripture that prove James is talking about being justified before men.
For instance, if you said you had faith to do a certain thing, Then the only way that you can justify your claim, is by doing it. James 2: 18. James 2: 22, says Abraham's faith was operated, Activated, by his works. His faith that God would raise Isaac from the dead was shown in his willing ness to offer Isaac, Believing he had to sacrifice Isaac.

An example would be, If a person who can't walk,says they have faith to healed, The way they will justify that claim, is to get out of the wheelchair and start to walk.
The meaning od James, is, Faith with corresponding actions.

 

[wincam]

what ever else is conjectured or concluded or individually interpreted it must be understood exactly who is or are being addressed and who are not - it will and must be admitted and accepted that James wrote his epistle well before his death and as Bishop of Jerusalem was well recognised and accepted by his, in the main jewish congregation/following as he preached salvation by works and only minutes before his death finally accepted and declared Jesus as the door or way or doorway - wincam

 

[peacefulbeliever]

To include some scripture is necessary here I think because I know some will not take the time to listen to this. Especially if they think it might interfere with their own understanding of this epistle.

Some key verses showing believers are addressed by James.

James 1:2-3[SUP] - [/SUP]My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;[SUP]3 [/SUP]Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

"your faith" indicates these are believers in the gospel.

James 1:4-5[SUP] - [/SUP]But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.[SUP]5 [/SUP]If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

"that ye may be perfect"........."perfect" is a reference to maturity. Can an unbeliever mature as a Christian? "Let him as God." Can he ask God for anything other than salvation?

These are just a couple of passages that indicate believers are being addressed. To understand context of any passage it must be determined who is being addressed. The epistle of James is of such importance to be understood correctly. Why not give this message some time out of your day to see this view and determine to yourself if Dr. Cucuzza has it interpreted correctly?

Yes, it is addressed to Jewish believers. . . "to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad" - written and plainly stated right in the 1st verse.

 

[Grace777x70]

I guess people can pick and choose based on their own preferences of what they want/need to listen to and make time for it if they believe it to be an important part of their belief system. I would think it would be at the top of anyone's list to understand what this epistle teaches.

I lean to the idea that the Holy Spirit will lead those to watch the videos as He is the one that teaches us all things. There may be something in there that the person needs at that particular time. I try go by the urging and prompting on the inside of me of whether to watch or listen to things.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Why do you call the Bible, "Nonsense", I have given you scripture that prove James is talking about being justified before men.
For instance, if you said you had faith to do a certain thing, Then the only way that you can justify your claim, is by doing it. James 2: 18. James 2: 22, says Abraham's faith was operated, Activated, by his works. His faith that God would raise Isaac from the dead was shown in his willing ness to offer Isaac, Believing he had to sacrifice Isaac.

An example would be, If a person who can't walk,says they have faith to healed, The way they will justify that claim, is to get out of the wheelchair and start to walk.
The meaning od James, is, Faith with corresponding actions.

Abraham justified himself before GOD that he truly did believe GOD. Abraham couldn't have cared less what men thought. What he did had nothing to do with being justified before men.

 

[crossnote]

I guess people can pick and choose based on their own preferences of what they want/need to listen to and make time for it if they believe it to be an important part of their belief system. I would think it would be at the top of anyone's list to understand what this epistle teaches.

It's just that belittling comments like this are uncalled for...

I know some will not take the time to listen to this. Especially if they think it might interfere with their own understanding of this epistle.

 

[John146]

To include some scripture is necessary here I think because I know some will not take the time to listen to this. Especially if they think it might interfere with their own understanding of this epistle.

Some key verses showing believers are addressed by James.

James 1:2-3[SUP] - [/SUP]My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;[SUP]3 [/SUP]Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

"your faith" indicates these are believers in the gospel.

James 1:4-5[SUP] - [/SUP]But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.[SUP]5 [/SUP]If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

"that ye may be perfect"........."perfect" is a reference to maturity. Can an unbeliever mature as a Christian? "Let him as God." Can he ask God for anything other than salvation?

These are just a couple of passages that indicate believers are being addressed. To understand context of any passage it must be determined who is being addressed. The epistle of James is of such importance to be understood correctly. Why not give this message some time out of your day to see this view and determine to yourself if Dr. Cucuzza has it interpreted correctly?

A number of problems with James being addressed to Jewish Christians. First, James' address itself doesn't allow for an interpretation of only the saved of the nation of Israel. The epistle is addressed to the "twelve tribes" which are scattered abroad. There is not justification for taking this as anything other than an address to the twelve tribes of Israel as a whole. Whenever "twelve tribes" is used in Scripture, it is always a reference to the whole nation - Genesis 49:28, Exodus 24:4, 28:21, Ezekiel 47:13. The NT is no exception - Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30, Acts 26:7, Rev. 21:12.

Never in any instance does the "twelve tribes" refer to anything other than the whole nation. In order to make James use it like that, you would have to contradict every other usage.

Whenever Christians out of the twelve tribes are referred to, they are clearly designated apart from the 12 tribes. Saved Jews are referred to as "the remnant" - Romans 9:27, 11:5; the Israel of God in Galatians 6:16; believing Jews - Romans 1:16; etc...

 

[John146]

To include some scripture is necessary here I think because I know some will not take the time to listen to this. Especially if they think it might interfere with their own understanding of this epistle.

Some key verses showing believers are addressed by James.

James 1:2-3[SUP] - [/SUP]My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;[SUP]3 [/SUP]Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

"your faith" indicates these are believers in the gospel.

James 1:4-5[SUP] - [/SUP]But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.[SUP]5 [/SUP]If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

"that ye may be perfect"........."perfect" is a reference to maturity. Can an unbeliever mature as a Christian? "Let him as God." Can he ask God for anything other than salvation?

These are just a couple of passages that indicate believers are being addressed. To understand context of any passage it must be determined who is being addressed. The epistle of James is of such importance to be understood correctly. Why not give this message some time out of your day to see this view and determine to yourself if Dr. Cucuzza has it interpreted correctly?

Secondly, James makes it clear that unsaved Jews are part of his intended audience. He tells those he is writing to that they should "receive with meekness" the word of God because it is "able to save your souls." James 1:21

It is clear that there were those in James' intended audience who had not yet received the word of God and their souls were not saved.

 

[John146]

Third, James' use of the term "brethren" should not be confused with it's Christian usage. Paul referred to unsaved Israel as his brethren - Romans 9:3. The term "brethren" does not always mean Christians in the NT. Sometimes it simply means kinsmen.

Notice in James 5:19-20, some who James calls "brethren" need to have their souls saved.

James is a Jewish epistle with a Jewish audience. Students of Scripture have never been successful making it a Christian epistle. They always have to reason away the text and cut the sides off the square pegs to make them fit in the round holes. Luther had such a tough time trying to make it mesh with Paul's epistles, he downgraded it to sub-canonical status and called James a "right strawy epistle" stating that one day he'd light his stove with its pages.

 

[John146]

Abraham justified himself before GOD that he truly did believe GOD. Abraham couldn't have cared less what men thought. What he did had nothing to do with being justified before men.

Yes, Abraham justified himself before God not man.

Genesis 22:12, "And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me."

Genesis 15 was not fulfilled until 7 chapter later.