James 2?

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Mec99

Banned
#21
Jul 4, 2015
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#21
Actually it was God who Justified Abraham. Abraham can not do anything by himself to make himself Justified in the eyes of God.

It was Faith FROM God that Abraham had the Faith to believe and by be Justified by God.

We by ourselves will never seek God out. Its by God seeking US first that we become Justified.
 
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Mec99

Banned
#22
Jul 4, 2015
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#22
I find it interesting when someone says its "Just another man's opinion". Its almost as if this person is saying only he has the Truth and no one else does and no one else matters but him.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#23
Jan 13, 2016
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#23
Mec99 said:
Actually it was God who Justified Abraham. Abraham can not do anything by himself to make himself Justified in the eyes of God.

It was Faith FROM God that Abraham had the Faith to believe and by be Justified by God.

We by ourselves will never seek God out. Its by God seeking US first that we become Justified.
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21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

God justified Abraham by his works. Today, the man who believes the gospel of Jesus Christ is justified by God through belief only.
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RobbyEarl

Guest
#24
#24
Mec99 said:
Actually it was God who Justified Abraham. Abraham can not do anything by himself to make himself Justified in the eyes of God.

It was Faith FROM God that Abraham had the Faith to believe and by be Justified by God.

We by ourselves will never seek God out. Its by God seeking US first that we become Justified.
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Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, Abraham is a biblical mystery when it comes to faith, Where did he here the word of God? Some say by Shem, but his family business was making Idols. The faith of Abraham is a mystery, but praise God He did, He didn't at first by staying at Hiram until His father died, but after that faith and a few places where he dwelt in flesh. Father Abraham, I am one of them and so are you so lets just praise the Lord. Remember when you were little.
 
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mpaper345

Banned
#25
Feb 9, 2010
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#25
Scriptureplz said:
One of the problems people have in understanding the epistle of James is everytime they see the word "save" in the bible they automatically think it means "to eternal life". That is not the case in this epistle. James writes his epistle to Christian Jews (James 2:1,5,14) . Eternal life is not in question and is not the focus, the focus is "exercising the salvation they already have" (Dr. Cucuzza). The word "brethren" is used 15 times in the book of James. This epistle is written about service, not salvation. I encourage everyone to take the time to listen to this message from Dr. Tom Cucuzza and understand once and for all what the epistle of James is really about. The truth shall set you free!

This is part one of two, and is about 40 minutes.

Faith Without Works Is Dead Part 1 | SermonAudio.com
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I do not think that people need to really worry about it,for the whole thing only is about allowing the Spirit to lead you.

James 2 only boils down to allow the Spirit to lead you,for it all boils down to allow the Spirit to lead you,or not.

Faith without works is dead,and not saved by faith alone,and we are justified by works,but it only boils down to being led of the Spirit,for if you are led by the Spirit you will do what God wants you to do,and if not you will fall short.

James 2 is in actuality saying allow the Spirit to lead you,for then you are doing everything right,and you will abide by faith without works is dead,and not saved by faith alone,and justified by works,even if you do not believe those things,but they should understand where they apply and not ignore them,but even so,be led by the Spirit,and you are doing everything right anyway,no matter what position you take.

Everything boils down to being led by the Spirit,or not,for if you are led of the Spirit you will do all things right,for you are doing what God wants you to do,and if not led by the Spirit,you will not please God.

But in essence James 2 is saying be led of the Spirit,for then you will do works of the Spirit,and not of our self,then faith will be applied in our life,because those are the only works we can actually do to have faith applied in our life,which can only come from the Spirit,which then there should not be a problem,because we all agree we have to be led of the Spirit,and do the works of the Spirit,so why do we argue about anything.

For it all boils down to being led of the Spirit,or not.

We have to love,but we can only do that correctly by the Spirit.We have to have faith,but we can only do that correctly by the Spirit.

So why worry about faith without works is dead,and not saved by faith alone,as if you are opposed to it,for if you are led by the Spirit,you are going by that anyway,because you are doing what God wants you to do,which we all agree we have to be led of the Spirit,and do the works of the Spirit.

So what is the problem,for if you agree that we have to be led of the Spirit,and do the works of the Spirit,to please God,then everything falls in to place,and they should put not saved by works,and saved by works,in its proper place.

If you are led by the Spirit,you are obeying James 2,and you are also obeying not saved by works.

If you confess Christ alone for salvation,and to find favor with the one true God,you are obeying not saved by works,and if you are led of the Spirit,you are obeying faith without works is dead,and not saved by faith alone.

So what is the controversy if you believe by Christ alone we are saved,and to allow the Spirit to lead you,for they argue not saved by works,and saved by works,but both groups believe saved by Christ alone,and be led of the Spirit,so what is the problem,there should not be a problem.

Some people do not know where to put not saved by works,and faith without works is dead,in its proper place,and argue about it,but both groups believe saved by Christ alone,and being led of the Spirit.

So what is the problem.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#26
Jan 13, 2016
16,666
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#26
mpaper345 said:
So what is the problem.
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The problem comes when those trying to mesh James with Paul bring about a "Lordship Salvation" mentality claiming that those believers who are not living right or have no good works must not be true believers. They say good works must be attached to a believer's life.
 
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Mec99

Banned
#27
Jul 4, 2015
648
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#27
It was by Faith, the works of Faith. Not by works he did, but by the Faith God had given him.

Do you not understand that no one seeks after God?

Romans 3:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP]as it is written,“There is none righteous, not even one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”

Abraham never sought out God, God went looking for Abraham first!
 
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RobbyEarl

Guest
#28
#28
John146 said:
The problem comes when those trying to mesh James with Paul bring about a "Lordship Salvation" mentality claiming that those believers who are not living right or have no good works must not be true believers. They say good works must attached to a believer's life.
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Right, if you trust God you will have good works produced by The Holy Spirit, it does not mean that you will not struggle with sin.
 
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Scriptureplz

Guest
#29
#29
crossnote said:
It's just that belittling comments like this are uncalled for...
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Not sure how you see belittling in this, unless it's because I didn't agree completely with what you said so you understood it as being 'belittled'. I was just making a logical statement.
 
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Scriptureplz

Guest
#30
#30
John146 said...... "A number of problems with James being addressed to Jewish Christians."

James 1:3 seems crystal clear to me.

John146 said....."Secondly, James makes it clear that unsaved Jews are part of his intended audience. He tells those he is writing to that they should "receive with meekness" the word of God because it is "able to save your souls." James 1:21"

To "save your souls" from what? A life of sin! This is not a reference to eternal life.

John146 said....."James is a Jewish epistle with a Jewish audience. Students of Scripture have never been successful making it a Christian epistle."

I guess that depends on who you talk to.
 
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Scriptureplz

Guest
#31
#31
RobbyEarl said:
Right, if you trust God you will have good works produced by The Holy Spirit, it does not mean that you will not struggle with sin.
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The bible NEVER says "if you trust God you will have good works produced by the Holy Spirit". What it says is......... "he that abideth in Me and I in him, the same shall bringeth forth much fruit" (John 15:5).

We don't 'produce' fruit, we 'bear' fruit of the Spirit if we abide in Him. This is about being a disciple, not just simply being saved unto eternal life.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#32
Jan 13, 2016
16,666
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113
#32
Scriptureplz said:
John146 said...... "A number of problems with James being addressed to Jewish Christians."

James 1:3 seems crystal clear to me.
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"To the twelve tribes scattered abroad"

It seems crystal clear to you that twelve tribes = Christians? Can you give another verse anywhere in the Bible where twelve tribes means Christian?
 
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John146

Senior Member
#33
Jan 13, 2016
16,666
3,541
113
#33
Scriptureplz said:
John146 said....."Secondly, James makes it clear that unsaved Jews are part of his intended audience. He tells those he is writing to that they should "receive with meekness" the word of God because it is "able to save your souls." James 1:21"

To "save your souls" from what? A life of sin! This is not a reference to eternal life.
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Can you show other passages that point to saving a soul from sinning in this life? You have to change the meaning of words in order to make it work.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#34
Jan 13, 2016
16,666
3,541
113
#34
Scriptureplz said:
The bible NEVER says "if you trust God you will have good works produced by the Holy Spirit". What it says is......... "he that abideth in Me and I in him, the same shall bringeth forth much fruit" (John 15:5).

We don't 'produce' fruit, we 'bear' fruit of the Spirit if we abide in Him. This is about being a disciple, not just simply being saved unto eternal life.
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How does a Christian "abide in Him?" I thought once a man believed the gospel of Christ he was "in Christ." A believer is always in Christ, that's his position even when his practice stinks.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#35
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
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#35
John146 said:
Can you show other passages that point to saving a soul from sinning in this life? You have to change the meaning of words in order to make it work.
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There are lot's of then actually.

Here are some scriptures that use the greek word for "soul" but the did not translate it as soul....they have to do with the quality of their life here on earth - sometimes it means their emotions and state of mind and sometimes it means their life in as being dead...etc.

Matthew 2:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] "Get up, take the Child and His mother, and go into the land of Israel; for those who sought the Child'slife are dead."

Matthew 6:25 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] "For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?

Matthew 10:39 (NASB)
[SUP]39 [/SUP] "He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.

Matthew 11:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.

Here is one where Jesus talks about His soul ( His quality of life ) being affected while on this earth.

Matthew 26:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] Then He *said to them, "My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death; remain here and keep watch with Me."

Acts 20:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "But I do not consider my life of any account as dear to myself, so that I may finish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify solemnly of the gospel of the grace of God.

Hebrews 12:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

These are just a small amount of the scriptures that are in the NT.
 
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Scriptureplz

Guest
#36
#36
John146 said:
"To the twelve tribes scattered abroad"

It seems crystal clear to you that twelve tribes = Christians? Can you give another verse anywhere in the Bible where twelve tribes means Christian?
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James 1:3 doesn't even say anything about the "twelve tribes". Lets actually read the verse before commenting then maybe you can comment with understanding.

James 1:3

[SUP]3 [/SUP]"Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience."

These are believing Jews being addressed.
 
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Scriptureplz

Guest
#37
#37
John146 said:
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

God justified Abraham by his works. Today, the man who believes the gospel of Jesus Christ is justified by God through belief only.
​
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When you stop trying to make scripture fit Pauline doctrine, you will begin to see truth. Until then you will always be blind to scripture. I know, I was there once.

[h=1]Romans 4:2[/h] [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.


[h=1]Romans 4:13[/h] [SUP]13 [/SUP]For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
 
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Scriptureplz

Guest
#38
#38
John146 said:
How does a Christian "abide in Him?" I thought once a man believed the gospel of Christ he was "in Christ." A believer is always in Christ, that's his position even when his practice stinks.
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Ever read John 15?
 
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John146

Senior Member
#39
Jan 13, 2016
16,666
3,541
113
#39
Grace777x70 said:
There are lot's of then actually.

Here are some scriptures that use the greek word for "soul" but the did not translate it as soul....they have to do with the quality of their life here on earth - sometimes it means their emotions and state of mind and sometimes it means their life in as being dead...etc.

Matthew 2:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] "Get up, take the Child and His mother, and go into the land of Israel; for those who sought the Child'slife are dead."

Matthew 6:25 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] "For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?

Matthew 10:39 (NASB)
[SUP]39 [/SUP] "He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.

Matthew 11:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.

Here is one where Jesus talks about His soul ( His quality of life ) being affected while on this earth.

Matthew 26:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] Then He *said to them, "My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death; remain here and keep watch with Me."

Acts 20:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "But I do not consider my life of any account as dear to myself, so that I may finish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify solemnly of the gospel of the grace of God.

Hebrews 12:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

These are just a small amount of the scriptures that are in the NT.
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Not soul though...
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#40
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
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#40
John146 said:
Not soul though...
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All those scriptures I gave have the exact same Greek word as James used here.

James 1:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls.


I think you are looking at the meaning of "soul" from your religious upbringing and how it has been used in church. There are a few meanings for the word soul. We all do this which is why we need to have our minds renewed constantly when we see new truth.

 
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