*** A VERY SHORT POST TRIB RAPTURE THREAD***

[popeye]

Please note the above can be found at Sorry, “Left Behind” Fans, “The Rapture” Is Not in the Bible - Church - Aleteia.org – Worldwide Catholic Network Sharing Faith Resources for those seeking Truth – Aleteia.org

Off the top of my head the rapture,or catching away is in at least 3 places,directly,and "escape" twice and lot is used by JESUS as an example of his coming. Plus in rev 14,not only are a
The 144 k in heaven,but the ripe fruit (Jews) are caught up,harvested,raptured,or whatever your web sight might want to call it.

The term is a moot point.

What would you like to call the gatherings I listed,which are also the "escapes"?

Take one or 2 of the rapture verses and elaborate,but you simply can't say scripture is not truth.

 

[Diego007]

Again, I see more reference to the bad guys being taken up than I do to the good guys going anywhere.

 

[popeye]

I have given you a well delivered in context support for a post trib rapture.. You are free however to continue to believe as you do..

Do we agree that the dead rise First,then those alive in Christ follow?

If so,please show me how we have a gathering (rapture) in rev 14 DURING THE GT,and how the dead rise first?
That means,under your template,the dead DO NOT RISE FIRST.

I believe,as you say,the bible.

I showed you the impossibility of the post trib template.

It is impossible,and you were shown.
My challenge to you and all postrib rapture adherents is to come up with a verse. One verse.

 

[popeye]

Again, I see more reference to the bad guys being taken up than I do to the good guys going anywhere.

Where? Matthew?

 

[popeye]

While the OP waits for Bible verses that support a post trib rapture, I still await a single verse which supports any rapture at all, a word that is not even in the Bible. No "rapture" in the Bible! Or show me where the word appears!

1Thess. 4:17 is about meeting and returning! That is the Greek! Never about leaving. Jesus returns and it is all over. No two second comings of Christ - a secret one and then a visible one.

Any kind of rapture is folk theology although some classical dispensationalists might disagree with me, and they might have a point. But all this junk theology is just ridiculous!

Really?

Pauls words are Junk?

Btw I own 2 Greek interlinears and use a online interlinear.

I am 100 % bible based.

Broad brushing credentials doesn't work with me.

 

[popeye]

Blah bu blah bu blah bu blah. No post trib, why have one at all at the end of the trib Jesus returns so we go up and immediately back down, makes no sense.

They made up the u turn.

They are oblivious to the fact that Jesus uses lot alongside Noah.

It is as if Jesus thought" if I don't add LOT in there someone's gonna say 'well Noah went through unrescued so..." .

They flat out have NO EXAMPLE of some rescue AFTER MASS JUDGEMENT (postrib)

No verses,and no pattern.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Remember that religion is one of Satan’s hidden dynasties. He loves to plant false doctrines, which twist Scripture, in Christian churches.


If you believe the rapture, you may find yourself among the following group of deceived Christians when Christ returns.


And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. Revelation 6:16


The above folks are so ashamed because they’ve been worshiping the wrong Christ.


It seems that the rapture people have forgotten how to count. The think the 7th trump comes before 6th ... that the real Christ comes before the false one comes. Christ returns at the 7th trump, not the 6th trump;


At the 6th seal, 6th trump, 6th vial, Michael will boot satan, playing his role as the antichrist (instead of Christ in the Greek), from heaven to earth (Revelation Chapter 12:6-9). Keep in mind that Revelation is a Prophetic book making the word SAW into the futuristic word "will" fall etc.


Christ also gave you all 7 seals & trumps in Mark 13, Luke 21, and Matthew 24. Have you read them with understanding?


So, from where then did the false rapture doctrine come?


Before 1830, you can find no mention of the Rapture Doctrine. That alone ought to send up a red flag. In fact, the word "rapture" is not in the Bible. So, where did this false doctrine come from? In 1830, Margaret MacDonald had an evil revelation on her sick bed, supposedly from God, in which she was shown what would become "The Rapture Of The Church", among other names.


And, from The Incredible Cover-up by Dave Macpherson, Appendix A, you'll read:


"I felt this needed to be revealed, and that there was great darkness and error about it; but suddenly what it was burst upon me with a glorious light." - Margaret MacDonald (Spring of 1830)


MacDonald's revelation would have probably died with her; however, two preachers grabbed it, cleaned it up, and presented it to Christendom. Today, you'll hear many pastors promoting that false doctrine from pulpits.

I think it is ridiculous to say of someone who believes our Lord will gather us together before that time of testing coming on the whole world to test it, is worshiping the wrong Christ. It is saying they do not worship their Lord because they think He will come for them prior to the testing. There are many godly men who believe this. You are saying to believe it means they are not godly men and do not worship the one true Lord and God. You are saying that to believe this, to have this endtime view, is to not know Christ but to worship someone or something other than Him. I think you should be more careful.

 

[popeye]

Reading Isaiah 66 can be very interesting. Revelation isn't about revelation of the antichrist. Or the 7 mountains. Or the pope. Or hell. It's about Jesus. And I believe it's actually more about what Christ did on the cross and the 2nd temple being destroyed.

It's a window into the future.

A revealing of future events.

God is a God of purpose. Jacobs trouble is Gods catalyst to deal with the Jews.

The ultimate target is to fill the wedding table,which preludes his second coming,which leads to Davids throne re established.

 

[popeye]

I think it is ridiculous to say of someone who believes our Lord will gather us together before that time of testing coming on the whole world to test it, is worshiping the wrong Christ. It is saying they do not worship their Lord because they think He will come for them prior to the testing. There are many godly men who believe this. You are saying to believe it means they are not godly men and do not worship the one true Lord and God. You are saying that to believe this, to have this endtime view, is to not know Christ but to worship someone or something other than Him. I think you should be more careful.

Yep

One could counter and say that since they poo poo Jesus return for his bride,they,through their own faith disenfranchised their own departure,and get their wish to deal with the other white horseman.

They are,in fact,waiting for the wrong horseman

 

[popeye]

It is MOST DEFINITELY NOT a salvation issue.

(unless those left behind take the AC's mark)

 

[popeye]

The Pre Trib Rapture happened last Monday. Sorry you didn't make it.

There would be sheer panic in your voice were it true.

The dread and horror of those that didn't make it will be chilling.

Without a doubt the biggest panic ever to visit mankind.

 

[Diego007]

You know, POPEYE, I have a Greek Interlinear and can read it. You are not the only one with that skill. Even using that as an argument (I can read Greek, ergo, my arguments are better) is a little juvenile. I personally see no evidence for a Rapture of any sort.

Think about the fact that in previous time, when people have been removed from the Earth, it has been evil people. Sodom and Gomorrah. When the Flood killed all except Noah and his people. God is not in the habit of taking good people. The concept of Rapture is not clearly spelled out in the NT, and has to be cut and pasted together by Protestant Evangelicals to even make sense. I submit to you that the early Reformers such as Martin Luther and John Calvin would have been shocked to see their work altered in this way.

 

[SCHISM]

Lot escaped the city before it was destroyed. Noah escaped the destruction of the flood in the ark.

We go through the great tribulation, then those who seek God and obey his voice will escape the destruction of God's wrath, probably by being in indestructible bodies.

Deuteronomy 4
[TABLE="class: bibleTable, width: 614"]
[TR="class: verseSelected"]
[TD]When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD](For the LORD thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Vdp]

The problem is not about IF there is or is not a Rapture.

The problem is peoples Pride. Diego007 takes offense against anyone who do not believe with what he wants to believe. Therefore he attacks people for having different believes.

What does it matter to you or your walk with Jesus Diego007 if others have a difference of opinion on certain Doctrines?

Is our Salvation based on believing the Rapture is a false Doctrine? Is our Salvation based on believing only you have the Truth?

You need to grow up. Its not all about what you want to believe, its all about building up the Body of Believers, its not about tearing down your Brothers in Christ.

 

[Adstar]

Do we agree that the dead rise First,then those alive in Christ follow?

Yes.. And nowhere in my post did i make the statement that the living shall rise before the dead.. That is something you attempted to unjustly inject into my message as a way of trying to undermine my post.. You built a strawman and pasted it onto me and attempted to burn me to the ground... After someone does that to me i am in no mood to continue the discussion..

 

[Diego007]

VDP, actually, on that level, I agree with you. But, as a point for debate, I was merely saying that the belief in Rapture is not a foregone conclusion as many seem to assume. I do NOT dispute that those who believe in the Rapture are still Christians. That would be foolish of me.

Essetially, VDP, I shall go far enough to say that anyone who believes in the Trinity and has been baptised in the name of the Triune God is a Christian, and deserves to be treated as such.

 

[AllenW]

When we talk about pre-trib and post-trib, we have to ask the question, "when is the day of the Lord?"
Is it pre-trib or post-trib?

1 Thessalonians 5:2 speaks of the day of the Lord and that is a continuation of Chapter 4.
They go together.
So when is the day of the Lord?

 

[Diego007]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXCV4Wd7KkU

Why Lutherans don't believe in the Rapture.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Again, I see more reference to the bad guys being taken up than I do to the good guys going anywhere.

Diego, it is good to meet you!
I am laughing, but can't quite explain why...
I guess because you remind me of me, in even just this short one sentence post!
By the sentence, you seem to me to be like I have been before, where I read my bible and had some confusion because some verses seemed to say the wicked were the ones removed and others seemed to say the opposite.

There is an openness, an admitting of having seen evidences of both "sides" as you read, no desire to fight, and lack of guile in this one sentence post and I want to encourage you to keep this in conversation, even when others (from both "sides") become nasty or arrogant.

What do you make of the two reapings described in Revelation 19? The first one sounds like Jesus to me and the second one sounds terrifying. What do you make of it?

 

[Diego007]

Diego, it is good to meet you!
I am laughing, but can't quite explain why...
I guess because you remind me of me, in even just this short one sentence post!
By the sentence, you seem to me to be like I have been before, where I read my bible and had some confusion because some verses seemed to say the wicked were the ones removed and others seemed to say the opposite.

There is an openness, an admitting of having seen evidences of both "sides" as you read, no desire to fight, and lack of guile in this one sentence post and I want to encourage you to keep this in conversation, even when others (from both "sides") become nasty or arrogant.

What do you make of the two reapings described in Revelation 19? The first one sounds like Jesus to me and the second one sounds terrifying. What do you make of it?

It is a pleasure to make your acquaintance. I see a description of Heven, if will, and the coming of the White Horseman of the Apocolypse.