*** A VERY SHORT POST TRIB RAPTURE THREAD***

[Ahwatukee]

Hi garee,

The FIRST resurrection was (past tense) and continues on till the last day, in respect to its beginning which was with the Old Testament saints in whom the Spirit of Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of God that worked in them as His promise to His glory.

The above is false and because scripture states that Jesus was the first fruits of those who rise from the dead - 1 Cor.15:20

1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory “that should follow”.

"On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”[SUP] [/SUP]By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified."

This is the first resurrection in which when one dies today they enter it in the same way by faith, just as the old testament saints

Anastasis/Resurrection is defined as ( ana - up again and histemi - to stand, properly "to stand up again") in the physical body. When a believer dies, their spirit/soul departs and goes to be in the presence of the Lord. This is not a resurrection! It is only a resurrection when the spirit/soul is reunited with the body and that body stands up again.

Ezekiel 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves

The above is not speaking of a literal resurrection, but is figurative for when God brings Israel back into their land. Read it again with that in mind.

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

This was indeed a resurrection, according to the definition of the word, although not onto eternal life. For those who came to life after Jesus resurrection, like Lazarus and Tabitha, they died again. For they had not been resurrected into their immortal and glorified bodies.

 

[Ahwatukee]

A time that is contrary to all biblical references to His second coming.

And therein lies the problem, that is, not recognizing that the gathering of the church is a separate event from the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. By making the gathering of the church as taking place when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, you put the church living at that time through the entire wrath of God. For Jesus will not return to the earth until after the 7th bowl has been poured out, completing God's wrath. Myself, along with may others, have not been influenced by Darby or Scofield, etc., but have come to our conclusions by studying the scriptures. We've heard this Darby claim over and over again and it's not true. It's just a weak apologetic.

Answer this question, who are those riding on white horses following Christ out of heaven as recorded in Rev.19:14? Whoever they are would have to already be in heaven in order to be following Christ out of heaven. Who are those who are being given fine linen, white and clean in Rev.19:6-8 and what are those who are riding on the white horses wearing? Who are the called, chosen and faithful followers that will be with Jesus when he returns?

 

[garee]

The above is false and because scripture states that Jesus was the first fruits of those who rise from the dead - 1 Cor.15:20

I see that parable a little differently.

Yes He was the first fruits of those that rise from the dead. He did the first works necessary so we could be saved according to His three day work of faith as a labor of His love, pouring out the Spirit of life on flesh.

I think we can see that according to the parable below. The apostate Jews somehow or other used bones in a literal way in hope their flesh could profit rather than bones representing the unseen spirit. They resisted the meaning to the parables. This is in a hope their flesh could profit for something. Refusing to mix faith in what they did hear. .

Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. Eze 37:11

The land above would be the eternal land, Zion or the bosom of Abraham the presence of God(not seen) the holy land witnessed by angels. Not the corrupted land of this world.

When He said it was finished. He of his own will, being of one mind gave up the ghost . His Spirit returned to the Father who first gave it to the Son of man as an outward demonstration. Then the promise that the Old Testament saints that did have the Spirit of Christ in them that looked ahead to the suffering .The glory was shown, their graves were opened and they entered the promised rest witnessed by many angels .

1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the “Spirit of Christ” which was in them did signify, whenit testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The glory did come signaled by the use of the metaphor the “renting of the vail “....it is finished Christ said.

Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Mat 27:50

That marks the first resurrection the same resurrection we enter when our souls leave these bodies of death. On the last day the first fruits will receive their promised new incorruptible bodies. The second and final resurrection.

Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

 

[popeye]

And therein lies the problem, that is, not recognizing that the gathering of the church is a separate event from the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. By making the gathering of the church as taking place when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, you put the church living at that time through the entire wrath of God. For Jesus will not return to the earth until after the 7th bowl has been poured out, completing God's wrath. Myself, along with may others, have not been influenced by Darby or Scofield, etc., but have come to our conclusions by studying the scriptures. We've heard this Darby claim over and over again and it's not true. It's just a weak apologetic.

Answer this question, who are those riding on white horses following Christ out of heaven as recorded in Rev.19:14? Whoever they are would have to already be in heaven in order to be following Christ out of heaven. Who are those who are being given fine linen, white and clean in Rev.19:6-8 and what are those who are riding on the white horses wearing? Who are the called, chosen and faithful followers that will be with Jesus when he returns?

Yep.

It is like finding a parallel in the postrb doctrine with some writing by general patton,then claiming all their doctrine originated from patton.

What a convoluted bunch of mess.

 

[PlainWord]

I am amazed at the splitting hairs over this pre trib rapture doctrine.<br>They cannot seem to figure out what the church is, who will be resurrected, caught up, or when it will even happen. The bible is very plain about who and when, but Darby and friends have deceived so many people into believing that this group or that group are "caught up" in some secret time when Jesus will come. A time that is contrary to all biblical references to His second coming.<br><br>I use to be a Hal Lindsay disciple until the Holy Spirit convicted me of the truth which is only found in the bible as we pray and study asking Him to reveal it. To argue these menial issues only proves that this doctrine of the "secret or pre-trib" rapture are straight from babylon. The wine of here fornication is what this confusion really is. It is harder, much harder to unlearn something then to learn the truth in the first place. The ONLY way we will be saved is by studying to show ourselves approved unto God. Not studying darby, Lehaye, Van Impe, Hal Lindsay. This is urgent! The Holy Spirit is our teacher not these false prophets. As you study these verses that point to the pri trib rapture pray, pray, pray for the Holy Spirit to reveal the true context of all of them. Claim the promise of John 14:26 and 16:13 as you read and study this issue. Many think this is a non salvation issue, but it has everything to do with salvation. If we are believing that we can receive the Holy Spirit while we believe and teach that obedience has nothing to do with salvation we are fatally mistaken. The Holy Spirit will convict us when we ask Him to, but He will not bless us while we are rebellious, and disobedient. Why do you think there are so many verses like this one&nbsp;1Corinthians:6:9: "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." For those who want to "overlook" verses like these and make the excuse that "I am saved" and this does not apply to me???? You will be very sorry on judgment day. If, even if you think you are saved, you are doing any of these or any of the other things that will cause us to "not inherit the kingdom of God" you keep doing these things you might want to pray to have the vail removed. The vail Paul writes about here&nbsp;2Corinthians:3:15: "But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart."&nbsp;<br><br>I have nothing to gain by writing this. I do not write these things for my benefit. I risk friendships over these issues. I want to see everyone in heaven with me. To argue the rapture when we are following our preconceived ideas about the most important doctrine of all is deadly.

I agree with you on the pretrib nonsense and it is important but some will never change their minds.