Lasciviousness...

[Hizikyah]

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Mattithyah 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is (the intent) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."

 

[Hizikyah]

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

 

[Gr8grace]

James 1:22-25, " But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does."

Law of liberty. It seems you are only a hearer of the law of liberty.

Seems you are doing "kinda" well with the law though?

Law of liberty~~~

John 6:40~~New American Standard Bible
"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

Acts 16:31~~New American Standard Bible
They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."


John 5:24~~New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Don't ignore these instructions. Your eternal destiny and life are in these instructions.

 

[Hizikyah]

Certianly none of us can follow YHWH perfectly, however that does not mean one ignores Instructions.

Isayah 42:21, "YHWH is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"

Mattithyah 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of YHWH; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of YHWH."

Unless heaven and earth passes away

for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away

Revelation 21ESV 1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, Behold, the dwelling placea of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,b and God himself will be with them as their God.c4He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.

Just one queston, did the events in Rev 21:1 already happen?

Can anyone answer this?

Just one queston, did the events in Rev 21:1 already happen?

 

[Hizikyah]

Law of liberty. It seems you are only a hearer of the law of liberty.

Seems you are doing kinda well with the law though?

Law of liberty~~~

John 6:40~~New American Standard Bible
"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

Acts 16:31~~New American Standard Bible
They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."


John 5:24~~New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Don't ignore these instructions. Your eternal destiny and life are in these instructions.

iF WE BELIEVE WE DO MY FRIEND, FOR THE MESSIAH SAID:

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

John (Yahchanan) 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

John (Yahchanan) 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

 

[Hizikyah]

We can go all day

I have faith

I have works

Faith and Works = Salvation, Scriptual fact, displayed many times in Scripture.

Revelation 12:17
New American Standard Bible
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

The Scriptures
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושע Messiah.

King James Bible
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

TRUTH.

Psalm 100:1-5, "Make a joyful shout to YHWH, all you lands. Serve YHWH with gladness! Come before His presence with singing! Know that YHWH is our Father! It is He Who made us, and not we ourselves. We are His people, and the sheep of His pasture. Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, and into His courts with praise. Be thankful to Him, and bless His Name! For YHWH is righteous, His mercy is everlasting, and His truth endures throughout all generations!"

 

[renewed_hope]

Exactly! There's this common misconception that people who preach grace approve of living in sin. There's a big difference. Miley Cyrus has this song called "We can't stop" and part of the lyrics is below:

"...Shaking it like we at a strip club, Remember only God can judge ya, Forget the haters cause somebody loves ya"

This approval of living in sin, IS lasciviousness.

What people don't understand is that real grace transform the heart that leads to outward fruit. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

You don't tell people to love God in hopes of transforming their hearts - This is law in plain english.
You do tell people God loves them and that transforms their hearts.

I agree, however there is one more step to this statement...we also need to live it to the full extent of our being. Here's the thing, you could tell people until you are blue in the face that God loves them and deliver them from sin, but if you go around blatantly sinning, seeking attention, gossiping or what have you, you aren't proving that God loves them. We are to be the epitome of who God is on earth every day and the more times we share who he truly is more and more people will fall in love with him.

 

[AbigailZeke]

I agree, however there is one more step to this statement...we also need to live it to the full extent of our being. Here's the thing, you could tell people until you are blue in the face that God loves them and deliver them from sin, but if you go around blatantly sinning, seeking attention, gossiping or what have you, you aren't proving that God loves them. We are to be the epitome of who God is on earth every day and the more times we share who he truly is more and more people will fall in love with him.

This has to be addressed as so many people in my generation think the same. All that are in bold are fruits. This is not different to how the law works. All of these are our own efforts. To be honest, we can try to be the best person we could ever be, but that still won't get people to God. Why? BECAUSE IT'S NOT OUR JOB TO BE THE BEST. We already established that we are sinners and worthless without the grace of God.

Here's news that will fix all emotional issues our generation easily encounters every day. Jesus is not expecting you to prove anything. He only asks of your faith in HIM and He will do the rest.

 

[PinkDiamond]

This has to be addressed as so many people in my generation think the same. All that are in bold are fruits. This is not different to how the law works. All of these are our own efforts. To be honest, we can try to be the best person we could ever be, but that still won't get people to God. Why? BECAUSE IT'S NOT OUR JOB TO BE THE BEST. We already established that we are sinners and worthless without the grace of God.

Here's news that will fix all emotional issues our generation easily encounters every day. Jesus is not expecting you to prove anything. He only asks of your faith in HIM and He will do the rest.

I agree with you that we can't fix everyone's issues or convert anyone. It's the Holy Spirit that convicts sinners and draws them to Christ. That being said, as Christians we are ambassadors for Christ. We are exhorted to be the salt of the earth and a light to others. We would be amiss to think that the unconverted do not watch us closely and examine our profession of faith. If we live no better than those with no faith in Christ what message does that send to others? We don't want to let our blatantly sinful lifestyle be an occasion for others to disregard Christianity. I'm not talking about perfection, here. I'm referring to the comment that was made about Christians living blatantly sinful lifestyles and gossip, etc. I'm not saying that we accomplish this through our own strength. It's through our relationship with Christ and grace that we are able to live a Godly life. The most effective tool for evangelization is the upright and chaste lifestyle of a Christian. A testimony of God's grace and redemption that is evident to all. One final thought, Ghandi said, " I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike Christ."

 

[AbigailZeke]

I agree with you that we can't fix everyone's issues or convert anyone. It's the Holy Spirit that convicts sinners and draws them to Christ. That being said, as Christians we are ambassadors for Christ. We are exhorted to be the salt of the earth and a light to others. We would be amiss to think that the unconverted do not watch us closely and examine our profession of faith. If we live no better than those with no faith in Christ what message does that send to others? We don't want to let our blatantly sinful lifestyle be an occasion for others to disregard Christianity. I'm not talking about perfection, here. I'm referring to the comment that was made about Christians living blatantly sinful lifestyles and gossip, etc. I'm not saying that we accomplish this through our own strength. It's through our relationship with Christ and grace that we are able to live a Godly life. The most effective tool for evangelization is the upright and chaste lifestyle of a Christian. A testimony of God's grace and redemption that is evident to all. One final thought, Ghandi said, " I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike Christ."

I get your point. We have addressed this earlier. Please go back up and see previous posts if you really wanna understand.

In addition, like I said, you are focusing on our fruit. How can you have an effective life if you don't have a foundation of Jesus' love and grace for you?

Seek first the kingdom of God and HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS. And all these things shall be added unto you.

 

[Cee]

The difference is in those who focus on not sinning. As opposed to freely being able to love one another.

Note the term "love feasts".

Also note the term "ungodly" it is clear these men do not know God who is love. How we treat one another shows our knowledge of God. Even just saying this will rile up the religion in those who think they are saved by their own good works.

But to those who are saved by Love, the natural progression is to love others. And loving one another fulfills the law. Christ enables us with His love to fulfill the law. But we do not do it to keep the law, but we do it out of freedom to those who are slaves to His love.

Those who are forgiven much, love much.
Those who are not, love less.

Lavisciousness at its root is absence of love.

If 1 Co 13 is fully expressed, would lavisciousness be? No.

Where many stumble on this is think it is out of freedom people sin. It is not. It is slavery that causes men to sin. But the Spirit of Truth sets us free to love. This is our original design.

 

[renewed_hope]

This has to be addressed as so many people in my generation think the same. All that are in bold are fruits. This is not different to how the law works. All of these are our own efforts. To be honest, we can try to be the best person we could ever be, but that still won't get people to God. Why? BECAUSE IT'S NOT OUR JOB TO BE THE BEST. We already established that we are sinners and worthless without the grace of God.

Here's news that will fix all emotional issues our generation easily encounters every day. Jesus is not expecting you to prove anything. He only asks of your faith in HIM and He will do the rest.

I never said that we need to be the best person to win people to Christ. Yes, God saves people but it's our job to share who God is with others. In order to do this we need to live our life according to the living word of God rather than what man says. We have established that God is love,right? Well, how are we showing unbelievers that God loves them when we gossip and backbite? I'm not pointing fingers, but generally speaking people don't feel comfortable around "Christians" Because they feel judged and if they do come clean about things gossip will fly around and who knows what they may say after that. We aren't perfect and we do make mistakes, but what I'm getting at is every time we are tempted by others to gossip or hear a dirty secret is to stop and ask ourselves what God wants us to do to handle that situation. By doing this and being open with others without judgment we share a piece of who God is and what he is all about. After all that is part of our great commission, is to go forth and make disciples of all nations

 

[AbigailZeke]

The difference is in those who focus on not sinning. As opposed to freely being able to love one another.

Note the term "love feasts".

Also note the term "ungodly" it is clear these men do not know God who is love. How we treat one another shows our knowledge of God. Even just saying this will rile up the religion in those who think they are saved by their own good works.

But to those who are saved by Love, the natural progression is to love others. And loving one another fulfills the law. Christ enables us with His love to fulfill the law. But we do not do it to keep the law, but we do it out of freedom to those who are slaves to His love.

Those who are forgiven much, love much.
Those who are not, love less.

Lavisciousness at its root is absence of love.

If 1 Co 13 is fully expressed, would lavisciousness be? No.

Where many stumble on this is think it is out of freedom people sin. It is not. It is slavery that causes men to sin. But the Spirit of Truth sets us free to love. This is our original design.

Amen to this.

 

[PinkDiamond]

I get your point. We have addressed this earlier. Please go back up and see previous posts if you really wanna understand.

In addition, like I said, you are focusing on our fruit. How can you have an effective life if you don't have a foundation of Jesus' love and grace for you?

Seek first the kingdom of God and HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS. And all these things shall be added unto you.

Agreed. I'm not disagreeing with you about how we go about this. We are to seek His righteousness. My point is it only follows logically that if we diligently seek him and his righteousness we will find it. ( ask and ye shall receive). So, if a Christian lives a lifestyle that has no evidence of any fruit at all doesn't it makes sense that we can conclude that they haven't found his righteousness? The bible makes allowances for weaker Christians and states that we all bring forth varying degrees of fruit. However, even the weakest of Christians has some fruit. The Bible also tells us that we can judge a tree by its fruit. A blatantly sinful lifestyle like was described earlier is indicative of lack of good fruit in that person's life. Only God knows if such a person is a very weak Christian or a false convert. In either case, that person is not going to be a great representation of the Gospel.

 

[AbigailZeke]

I never said that we need to be the best person to win people to Christ. Yes, God saves people but it's our job to share who God is with others. In order to do this we need to live our life according to the living word of God rather than what man says. We have established that God is love,right? Well, how are we showing unbelievers that God loves them when we gossip and backbite? I'm not pointing fingers, but generally speaking people don't feel comfortable around "Christians" Because they feel judged and if they do come clean about things gossip will fly around and who knows what they may say after that. We aren't perfect and we do make mistakes, but what I'm getting at is every time we are tempted by others to gossip or hear a dirty secret is to stop and ask ourselves what God wants us to do to handle that situation. By doing this and being open with others without judgment we share a piece of who God is and what he is all about. After all that is part of our great commission, is to go forth and make disciples of all nations

All this is right. I'm not arguing.

My point is, as made clear over and over, all these fruits will come out of us naturally because of the foundation of God's love and grace in our hearts.

 

[AbigailZeke]

Agreed. I'm not disagreeing with you about how we go about this. We are to seek His righteousness. My point is it only follows logically that if we diligently seek him and his righteousness we will find it. ( ask and ye shall receive). So, if a Christian lives a lifestyle that has no evidence of any fruit at all doesn't it makes sense that we can conclude that they haven't found his righteousness? The bible makes allowances for weaker Christians and states that we all bring forth varying degrees of fruit. However, even the weakest of Christians has some fruit. The Bible also tells us that we can judge a tree by its fruit. A blatantly sinful lifestyle like was described earlier in posts is not a convincing proof of some good fruit in that person's life.

Exactly. What were we arguing about?! This is right. All these are fruits that are results of our fellowship with Jesus.

The problem only comes when people reverse it and make it their own effort to do the work of God. No, if we have that relationship with Jesus, He will cause the outward works to abound (results in a Christ-centered Jesus-glorifying life).

 

[PinkDiamond]

Exactly. What were we arguing about?! This is right. All these are fruits that are results of our fellowship with Jesus.

The problem only comes when people reverse it and make it their own effort to do the work of God. No, if we have that relationship with Jesus, He will cause the outward works to abound (results in a Christ-centered Jesus-glorifying life).

okay, then, haha. I'm glad we are on the same page. It's hard sometimes to tell through online communication. I had agreed with all your previous contributions to this thread

 

[renewed_hope]

All this is right. I'm not arguing.

My point is, as made clear over and over, all these fruits will come out of us naturally because of the foundation of God's love and grace in our hearts.

You know what's kinda funny? So many people argue and what not on here and I can almost guarantee that most of them believe the same thing haha!

I'm glad that we are on the same page on this issue

 

[Cee]

We all have different revelations and relationships with Him.

So we need each other. And when we honor each other we receive each others reward. Believing Truth is a Person not just a doctrine. So we do not only love each other because of our denominational agreements.

 

[AbigailZeke]

okay, then, haha. I'm glad we are on the same page. It's hard sometimes to tell through online communication. I had agreed with all your previous contributions to this thread

Haha thanks. True, it's hard to tell through forums lol.

Especially with all the misconceptions. There are grace people who call themselves grace people and tolerate and enable sin (hollywood right now). There are grace people who are Jesus conscious and forgives sin and loves the sinner > which then is misinterpreted as tolerating sin. I could go on and on.