"replacement theology" - what is it?

[ZEEK]

What are you talking about?

Paul thanks the Roman church for spreading the gospel worldwide.

8 [FONT=&quot]First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed throughout the world.[/FONT]

How did that happen?

That happened because Caligula exiled all the Jews from Rome in AD41, so a large part of the Church was slung out, and took the gospel worldwide.

Read Acts. The gospel went out through the synagogues.

Why was that?

Because Judaism was a special exemption, every other religion was banned by Rome. Christianity therefore had to appear as a branch of Judaism.

 

[ZEEK]

You people and your name calling attacks, do you think this will get people to turn to your way of believing?

What name-calling? What are you going on about?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

what does that have to do with anything about 9 - 11. sorry I just like to take God at his word, not try to guess what he might mean..

 

[ZEEK]

Paul was writing to Gentiles in the church of rome

He was answering the question many asked, Did God make a mistake (9:6) In my view, the mistake everyone asked, was in picking Isreal to be his representatives (they crucified Christ, did God make a mistake)

40 year grace period? Where do you get this from.. Grace is for all people of all ages, God does not need to give people a 40 year grace period.

what is so hard to understand that the context of romans 9 and romans 11 are two different things?

God gave Ninevah 40 days to repent. Likewise Judah had 40 years to repent of their sins.
That is why the John the Baptist started his ministry of repentence in AD27.

Ad27 to AD 67 = 40 years.

In AD67 the guillotine came down on Judah and Jerusalem.

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

what is all the noise about "God is/is not through with the jews"?

he's not done with anyone until he : turns them over to reprobate minds or they die in unbelief...or they arrive safely in eternity.

"GOD IS NOT DONE WITH THE JEWS" << they can hear the gospel and be saved (or not)- okay? okay.

All this noise? I don't hear any noise except the application of scripture.
Yes, the Jewish people will have to come to Christ for salvation, that is not being contested.

When we say that God is not done with the Jews it is because they still have an eschatological role to play. The Time of Jacob's Trouble is coming and after the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, God will return His attention to Israel for the time of their trouble.

 

[Grandpa]

Galatians 4:22-31
[FONT=&quot]22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


Don't these verses close the case?

Jews are in bondage with Jerusalem which now is, and was 2000 yrs ago.

The children who receive the promises of Abraham are the children of faith. Not a race of people born in the flesh.

Is God finished with these children of the flesh? No, He is still bringing them to Christ.

Is this considered replacement theology? Not really. Spiritual Israel was always a different thing than physical Israel. Same with right now. We are part of Spiritual Israel and have not, nor ever could, replace Spiritual Israel. Spiritual Israel was always the Real, the Truth, that the shadow, the flesh, was pointing to.




[/FONT]

 

[ZEEK]

Galatians 4:22-31
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


Don't these verses close the case?

Jews are in bondage with Jerusalem which now is, and was 2000 yrs ago.

The children who receive the promises of Abraham are the children of faith. Not a race of people born in the flesh.

Is God finished with these children of the flesh? No, He is still bringing them to Christ.

Is this considered replacement theology? Not really. Spiritual Israel was always a different thing than physical Israel. Same with right now. We are part of Spiritual Israel and have not, nor ever could, replace Spiritual Israel. Spiritual Israel was always the Real, the Truth, that the shadow, the flesh, was pointing to.

Well put Grandpa

 

[KJV1611]

"I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race, the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen."

The verses you posted apply to ALL of Israel - fleshly descendants of Israel and descendants of the promise. That comes from Romans 9:6-8.

Romans 9:6-8 KJV
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
[7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
[8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Now let's read the verses you posted with that perspective ---> All Israel is not Israel, nor are the seed of Abraham all children.

Romans 9:4-5 KJV
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God , and the promises; [5] Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came , who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Now answer these questions:

1. Does the adoption as sons of God apply to fleshly Israel? Of course it doesn't.
2. Does the glory apply to fleshly Israel? I don't know, maybe but I doubt it.
3. Do the covenants apply to fleshly Israel? Some do but those were conditional covenants that fleshly Israel couldn't keep. The covenant to Abraham - No, that was to Abraham and Christ.
4. The giving of the law? Yes, the law was given to all Israel.
5. The service of God? Yes, there were "lost" Israelites that were priests and scribes etc.
6. The promises? No, the promises were made to Abraham and Christ.
7. Christ coming in the flesh? Yes.

Romans 9:4-5 DOES NOT apply ONLY to fleshly Israel, some of it applies to them and some applies to the children of promise.

 

[KJV1611]

elect what?

For salvation (all who come to god in faith, whether jew gentile male female free or slave)

or for national purposes..(and to you I give this land as a gift forever)

Where does I give this land as a gift forever come from?

 

[ZEEK]

Romans 9:1-6 is Paul talking specifically about the Jews.

 

[ZEEK]

The children of promise are made up of Jews and Gentiles who believe in Christ and who belong to the church. Paul is speaking about those of physical Israel as branches that have been broken off because of their lack of faith and so that God may have mercy on the Gentiles. Once the time of the Gentiles has been completed, God will then have mercy on physical Israel during that last 3 1/2 years.

........ ......

God is going to deal with physical Israel during those last seven years in fulfillment of the seventy seven year periods that was decreed upon them.

This is garbled and wrong.

You invoke Daniel's 70 weeks for the Jews as uncompleted and yet to be completed, and then say it is a time of (3.5/7 years?) mercy.


Daniel 9 26 Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.
27 He shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall make sacrifice and offering cease; and in their place shall be an abomination that desolates, until the decreed end is poured out upon the desolated.”


You are simply butchering Daniel, and also Romans because Paul tells us the same.

 

[tanakh]

God gave Ninevah 40 days to repent. Likewise Judah had 40 years to repent of their sins.
That is why the John the Baptist started his ministry of repentence in AD27.

Ad27 to AD 67 = 40 years.

In AD67 the guillotine came down on Judah and Jerusalem.

God doesnt make mistakes. The idea that when the Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah he had to cobble together the Church as Plan B is ridiculous and blasphemous but this is a key part of the dispensationalist belief that Scofield and others promoted.

 

[ZEEK]

Well you probably understand Dispensationalism much better than I do Tanakh.

But yes, it is a ridiculous idea.

 

[TMS]

Question: "What is replacement theology / supersessionism?"

Answer: Replacement theology (also known as supersessionism) essentially teaches that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan. Adherents of replacement theology believe the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people, and God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel. Among the different views of the relationship between the church and Israel are the church has replaced Israel (replacement theology), the church is an expansion of Israel (covenant theology), or the church is completely different and distinct from Israel (dispensationalism/premillennialism).

https://www.gotquestions.org/replacement-theology.html

I'm not sure what replacement theology is and don't care because i like to follow Bible theology.
The Bible teaches that the bad branches were broken off and the good ones were grafted in.
Those that rejected the gospel of Jesus were removed and if an Israelite decides to believe in Jesus they can easily be grafted back into the plant that represents Gods people. The calling went to the gentiles and they accepted what many of the Jews didn't.
There is no teaching in the Bible to say the church is divided or that Israel have a special time after the current church.
Jesus didn't create a new church and it doesn't matter if your Jew or gentile, if you believe the same thing you are part of the same church (the same roots). Every person from Adam to the second coming of Jesus will be saved in the same way. By faith in Jesus.

 

[TMS]

i agree Dispensationalism is ridiculous
A man made theory that twists scriptures to make it believable for those that want to believe the lies.

 

[KJV1611]

All this noise? I don't hear any noise except the application of scripture.
Yes, the Jewish people will have to come to Christ for salvation, that is not being contested.

When we say that God is not done with the Jews it is because they still have an eschatological role to play. The Time of Jacob's Trouble is coming and after the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, God will return His attention to Israel for the time of their trouble.

Jacob had major trouble in AD 70, is something coming worse than them be annihilated back then?

 

[ZEEK]

The bottom line is that the Church is Israel, and therefore it is an oxymoron to say that the Church has replaced Israel, and I don't think anyone in their right mind would or could say that.

I guess that false doctrine must have been floated for those who want a state in the Middle East to have a straw man to bash. Sorry, I can't see it any other way.

Regarding the Jews and their special use, maybe that is something dealt with in the Davidic covenant.

 

[zone]

The bottom line is that the Church is Israel, and therefore it is an oxymoron to say that the Church has replaced Israel, and I don't think anyone in their right mind would or could say that.

I guess that false doctrine must have been floated for those who want a state in the Middle East to have a straw man to bash. Sorry, I can't see it any other way.

Regarding the Jews and their special use, maybe that is something dealt with in the Davidic covenant.

the dispies with their "all Israel will be saved" theory have set it up so that hundreds of millions of jews who have died in their sin and unbelief aren't part of all Israel, even though they say they are.

or that all those "Israelites" went to hell, but an 'end-time generation' is part of the remnant (huge 2000+ year gap) - even though they don't seem to acknowledge all the Israelites who preached the gospel to their generation, and us, through the word.

it's wretched.

 

[ZEEK]

But I think dispensationalism says the Jews are under a separate covenant, and are saved outside the Cross...

 

[zone]

But I think dispensationalism says the Jews are under a separate covenant, and are saved outside the Cross...

that's where it started, and that's where it always ends up (stated or not).
total anti-Semitism.