"replacement theology" - what is it?

[kaylagrl]

But I think dispensationalism says the Jews are under a separate covenant, and are saved outside the Cross...

No,I do not believe they will be saved outside of the cross and have already said earlier that I don't believe that. When the anti-christ brings false peace he will turn on the Jews.When the Jews realize him as a false Messiah they will grieve and recognize Jesus as the true Savior and will be saved by the cross the same as we all are. Romans 11 says they have been blinded for a time,until the Gentiles come in,couldn't be clearer. Thank you though for being respectful while disagreeing.

 

[Ahwatukee]

i agree Dispensationalism is ridiculous
A man made theory that twists scriptures to make it believable for those that want to believe the lies.

Hello TMS,

So regarding dispensationalism, you don't believe in a literal interpretation of scripture, including prophecy and you don't believe that ethnic/physical Israel and the church are two separate programs within God's plan? These are the two primary distinctions regarding dispensationalism. And of course the literal interpretation allows for symbolism as representing the literal.

Obviously, by the grace of God, there are physical/ethnic Israel who are believers in Christ which makes them apart of the church, along with Gentile believers. Then there is also physical/ethnic Israel who did not recognize Jesus as their Messiah. The latter is the group that Paul is speaking about in Rom.9 & 11, the Israel of whom Paul said did not obtain righteousness with God because they pursued it not by faith, but by the works of the law and which they are still doing till this day.

It is this group of Israel that God is going to deal with during that last seven years in fulfillment of the seventy seven year periods that were decreed up them and their holy city Jerusalem.

God is not done with physical/ethnic Israel who did not receive Jesus as Messiah. These are those who, according to Matt.24:15-21 and Rev.12:6,14, will be fleeing out into the wilderness when that abomination is set up, where God will have a place prepared for them where they will remain during that last 3 1/2 years protected from the dragon/Satan.

The Israel of promise, those having the same faith as Abraham, along with the Gentile believers, who are still alive when the resurrection takes place, will be changed into their immortal and glorified bodies and will be caught up with those who will have just been resurrected. Therefore, the Israel of promise, those who acknowledged Jesus as their Messiah, will not be here during that last seven years.

 

[kaylagrl]

that's where it started, and that's where it always ends up (stated or not).
total anti-Semitism.

You've got to be kidding. I posted what the early church fathers said regarding replacement theology. Jews were accused of poisoning wells,kidnapping children,blood libels and were persecuted and murdered for it. THAT is anti-semetic. Saying the church gets all the blessings and the Jews get all the curses THAT is anti-semetic. This doctrine was disavowed even by the Catholics and then someone digs it up out of the dirt again and dresses it up as something new,a new name.Its always been the same,anti-semtic, false doctrine and dangerous.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The covenant in Genesis 17 is to Abraham and his seed. Who is that seed, flesh descendants or Christ?

He told them who it was.

He also re-iterated it two two of his descendents.

That is why God always says he will remember his promise to Abraham, isaac and jacob (of which the last is where Israel gets its namesake)

He never promised them that would be saved, because they were born into this family, He promised them that he gave them a gift, and as descendents, that gift belongs also to them (Again, NOT salvation)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here's why God initiated a sacrificial system.

Hebrews 10:1-4 KJV
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. [2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. [4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

If they, or us, or anyone could keep the law according to Gods standard (perfection)

then he would never have had to give the sacrificial system.

 

[Ahwatukee]

You've got to be kidding. I posted what the early church fathers said regarding replacement theology. Jews were accused of poisoning wells,kidnapping children,blood libels and were persecuted and murdered for it. THAT is anti-semetic. Saying the church gets all the blessings and the Jews get all the curses THAT is anti-semetic. This doctrine was disavowed even by the Catholics and then someone digs it up out of the dirt again and dresses it up as something new,a new name.Its always been the same,anti-semtic, false doctrine and dangerous.

Very true Kaylagrl! And I might remind what God said regarding those who speak against Israel.

"I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

 

[Desertsrose]

That promise, which was to all Israel, not just the Jews, has been fulfilled Desertsrose

Zeke,

No, read again. Who is this New Covenant made with? It's the divided kingdom of Israel and Judah - the physical natural nation, not a spiritual group, but the natural. if you have some time, read the whole book of Ezekiel. It talks about God's plan for the nation of Israel. There are promises made to her that haven't been fulfilled yet.

 

[KJV1611]

He told them who it was.

He also re-iterated it two two of his descendents.

That is why God always says he will remember his promise to Abraham, isaac and jacob (of which the last is where Israel gets its namesake)

He never promised them that would be saved, because they were born into this family, He promised them that he gave them a gift, and as descendents, that gift belongs also to them (Again, NOT salvation)

The promise in Genesis was to Abraham and his seed Christ though... am I wrong?

 

[KJV1611]

We have to understand that Abraham was the father of many nations so when a verse is talking about Abraham and his seed, it doesn't necessarily mean physical children.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The promise in Genesis was to Abraham and his seed Christ though... am I wrong?

Not the land promise, no. That land was there's the moment God gave it to them, He evn told abraham, it was his, but he would not get to enjoy it because the sin of the ammorite was not yet complete (another 400 years would pass)

most of the promises of Gen 12 had nothign to do with Christ.

1. I will make your name Great
2. I will make you a great nation
3. I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you


Only one came through Christ

1. In you shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.

And that one also happens to the the only "salvic" aspect of the whole covenant between God and abraham.

Like I said, there were different parts..

Giving the land to Israel was part of the "And I will make you a great nation. It was not Edom which was this great nation, Or the nation which came from Ishmael, it was Isreal, and God, as part of that promise, gave them some property.

That property has nothing to do with you being saved, me being saved, or anyone who ever lived being saved, It was just a Gift God gave a nation. Which as I already proved, he said was an ETERNAL gift.

eternal means, even today, that promise still stands.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We have to understand that Abraham was the father of many nations so when a verse is talking about Abraham and his seed, it doesn't necessarily mean physical children.

yes, So we have to go through all of scripture.

god reconfirmed the promise with just one of abrahams son, And he confirmed it with just one of his grandsons.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (renamed Isreal)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What it means, is that if you or I or Zone or anyone is not part of the bloodline, That land promise does not concern us, we can repent until we are blue in the face, God did not give that land to us, so we have no right to it.


but the nation, who is part of that family, if they repent 100 years from now. God is a graceful God and he promised, he would forgive them, He would remember his promise to abraham Isaac and Jacob, He would remember the land and the fathers, and restore them, and if they walked in Gods statutes, then he would do as he originally promised he would do.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The covenant in Genesis 17 is to Abraham and his seed. Who is that seed, flesh descendants or Christ?

Morning KJV1611,

Replacement theology is defined as the church having replaced Israel in God’s plan, which is not true. Everyone, both Jew and Gentile believers are those who are having the same faith that Abraham did, are credited with righteousness. Physical Israel that do not have the same faith as Abraham, but who are still trusting in the works of the law, these are those whom God is going to deal with during that last seven years and who, by the grace of God, will come to the knowledge of Jesus as their Messiah.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

to note.

If we repent, no matter what family we belong to. We will be saved, be it jew or gentile. we would all be part of abraham's spiritual family.

but that is a separate issue, and due to a different aspect of the covenant,

that is where the term "replacement theology" comes from. It states (in a nutshell from what I can see) God is done with Israel (although they as individuals can still be saved) and replaced them with the church.

 

[zone]

....When the anti-christ brings false peace he will turn on the Jews.When the Jews realize him as a false Messiah they will grieve and recognize Jesus as the true Savior and will be saved by the cross the same as we all are.

none of that is written.
if it is, could you post it? ^^ that part. where does it say anything about that?

 

[zone]

.....Saying the church gets all the blessings and the Jews get all the curses ....

that's exactly what happened in 70AD incidentally.
they were first called Christians at Antioch. believers are called Christians, the church, today. what is your point.
all unbelievers are cursed. whats your point?

 

[BeyondET]

The Israel of God
(Galatians 6:16)

by Michael Marlowe, Dec. 2004.

The Israel of God (Galatians 6:16)

I read that kind seems over the top, for Galatians 6 is pretty simple once read as a whole teaching of bear one another's burdens

Galatians 6

1Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. 2Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ. 3For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4But each one must examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another. 5For each one will bear his own load. 6The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. 10So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith. 11See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand. 12Those who desire to make a good showing in the flesh try to compel you to be circumcised, simply so that they will not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh. 14But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 16And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. 17From now on let no one cause trouble for me, for I bear on my body the brand-marks of Jesus. 18The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brethren. Amen.

 

[Ahwatukee]

none of that is written.
if it is, could you post it? ^^ that part. where does it say anything about that?

It surely is written. When that abomination is set up, Israel will realize that he is not their Messiah and will flee out into the wilderness to that place God will already have prepared for them. And they will remain there during that last 3 1/2 years until Christ returns to the earth to end the age.

There are many truths and prophesies in scripture that are understood by the taking into consideration the entire context and comparing and cross-referencing scripture. When that ruler, the antichrist, makes his seven year covenant with Israel, they will believe him to be their Messiah. It is when that antichrist has the abomination set up in the holy place within the templet that Israel realizes that he is not their Messiah and they flee out into the wilderness.

 

[notuptome]

none of that is written.
if it is, could you post it? ^^ that part. where does it say anything about that?

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[KJV1611]

What it means, is that if you or I or Zone or anyone is not part of the bloodline, That land promise does not concern us, we can repent until we are blue in the face, God did not give that land to us, so we have no right to it.


but the nation, who is part of that family, if they repent 100 years from now. God is a graceful God and he promised, he would forgive them, He would remember his promise to abraham Isaac and Jacob, He would remember the land and the fathers, and restore them, and if they walked in Gods statutes, then he would do as he originally promised he would do.

Then those whacko's in Israel right now are not legitimate Israel. They have not repented.