"replacement theology" - what is it?
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Again, Paul is.
Do you think that today´s Jews would not kill Him? If so, then the characteristics were only about Jews 2000 years ago. But I do not know that.
What would today´s orthodox Jews do if Jesus would come and said He is God, He can forgive sins and that they are the children of devil? I am not sure, they are quite aggressive.
Do you think that today´s Jews would not kill Him? If so, then the characteristics were only about Jews 2000 years ago. But I do not know that.
What would today´s orthodox Jews do if Jesus would come and said He is God, He can forgive sins and that they are the children of devil? I am not sure, they are quite aggressive.
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J
not according to what the bible teaches. do you want the truth about who killed Jesus or you just going to cherry pick the passages you want to see to justify blaming all the Jews.
here is another truth, feel free to ignore this as well. caiaphas, the High priest that lead the plot to kill Jesus was given his position of authority not by "the Jews" but by the roman governor, whos interest do you think he was looking out for, Israel or Rome.
here is another truth, feel free to ignore this as well. caiaphas, the High priest that lead the plot to kill Jesus was given his position of authority not by "the Jews" but by the roman governor, whos interest do you think he was looking out for, Israel or Rome.
The bible tells us who killed Jesus.
1 Thessalonians 2:14-15 KJV
For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
[15] Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
1 Thessalonians 2:14-15 KJV
For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
[15] Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
An interesting argument against this, is that there were Jews living in Israel long before partition. In fact the Orthodox rabbis were totally against the Zionist Israel, because they believed, rightly so, that it was a creation of men, not God.
WHY ORTHODOX JEWS ARE OPPOSED TO THE ZIONIST STATE
1) What is "The People of Israel" ?
- The People of Israel have existed for thousands of years.
- They have their own particular, essential nature.
- The Torah is the source of their essential nature.
- Without Torah and Faith there is no People of Israel.
- Whoever denies the Torah and the Faith is no longer part of the People of Israel.
- The purpose of the People of Israel in this world is Divine Service.
- Their salvation is occupation in Divine Service.
2) What is Zionism?
- Zionism is a relatively new thing.
- It has only existed for a century.
- Zionism redefines the true essential nature of the People of Israel, and substitutes for it a completely contradictory and opposite character - a materialistic worldly nation.
- Their misfortune is lack of what other nations possess, i.e. a state and army.
- Their salvation is possession of a state and army etc.
- This is clearly spelled out in the circles of Zionist thought, and among the leaders of the Zionist State, that through changing the nature and character of the People of Israel and by changing their way of thinking they can set before the People of Israel "their salvation" -- a state and an army.
The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons:
FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.
SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.
THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.
FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.
The Zionists claim that they are the saviors of Israel, but this is refuted by twelve things:
FIRST -- If one contemplates the two thousand years of our exile, take any hundred years even the hardest, one will not find as much suffering, bloodshed, and catastrophes for the People of Israel in the period of the Zionists, and it is known that most of the suffering of this century was caused by the Zionists, as our Rabbis warned us would be the case.
SECOND -- It is openly stated in books written by the founders of Zionism that the means by which they planned to establish a state was by instigating anti-Semitism, and undermining the security of the Jews in all the lands of the world, until they would be forced to flee to their state. And thus they did - They intentionally infuriated the German people and fanned the flames of Nazi hatred, and they helped the Nazis, with trickery and deceit, to take whole Jewish communities off to the concentration camps, and the Zionists themselves admit this. (See the books Perfidy, Min Hameitzor, etc.). The Zionists continue to practice this strategy today. They incite anti-Semitism and then they present themselves as the "saviors". Here are two replies given by Leaders of the Zionists during World War II, when they were asked for money to help ransom Jews from the Nazis. Greenbaum said "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Poland." (G-d forbid).
Weitzman said, "The most important part of the Jewish people is already in the land (of Israel) and those who are left, are unimportant" (May we be spared).
THIRD -- We see that most of world Jewry lives in security and under good physical conditions, and have no desire to go live in the Zionist State. Whereas many people have left the Zionist State to live under better conditions in other lands.
FOURTH -- The Zionists make a great deal of propaganda to induce people to immigrate to their state. If their state is so beneficial why do they have to make so much propaganda.
FIFTH -- Because nobody wants the Zionists to "save" them. The only way they can get immigrants is by promising poor people material benefits, and even then very few people respond.
SIXTH -- The Zionist State is always threatened by the dangers of war. Whereas the rest of world Jewry live in peace and security, (Except in a few places where the Zionists have undermined their security and fanned the flames of hatred)
SEVENTH -- The Zionist State could not continue to exist without economic support from Jews living outside of the Zionist State.
EIGHTH -- The Zionist State is on the verge of economic collapse, and their money is nearly worthless.
NINTH -- The Zionist State persecute all Jews who are loyal to their Faith.
TENTH -- They start wars that endanger the Jewish People, for the sake of their own political interests.
ELEVENTH - According to the Torah the path of safety is following ways of peace not starting fights with other nations, as the Zionists do.
TWELFTH -- Even if the Zionists could and would provide physical security it would be at the expense of our Faith and Our Torah the true People of Israel prefer death rather than life at such a cost.
It is therefore clear that Zionism is not the savior of the people of Israel. Rather it is their greatest misfortune.
SECOND -- It is openly stated in books written by the founders of Zionism that the means by which they planned to establish a state was by instigating anti-Semitism, and undermining the security of the Jews in all the lands of the world, until they would be forced to flee to their state. And thus they did - They intentionally infuriated the German people and fanned the flames of Nazi hatred, and they helped the Nazis, with trickery and deceit, to take whole Jewish communities off to the concentration camps, and the Zionists themselves admit this. (See the books Perfidy, Min Hameitzor, etc.). The Zionists continue to practice this strategy today. They incite anti-Semitism and then they present themselves as the "saviors". Here are two replies given by Leaders of the Zionists during World War II, when they were asked for money to help ransom Jews from the Nazis. Greenbaum said "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Poland." (G-d forbid).
Weitzman said, "The most important part of the Jewish people is already in the land (of Israel) and those who are left, are unimportant" (May we be spared).
THIRD -- We see that most of world Jewry lives in security and under good physical conditions, and have no desire to go live in the Zionist State. Whereas many people have left the Zionist State to live under better conditions in other lands.
FOURTH -- The Zionists make a great deal of propaganda to induce people to immigrate to their state. If their state is so beneficial why do they have to make so much propaganda.
FIFTH -- Because nobody wants the Zionists to "save" them. The only way they can get immigrants is by promising poor people material benefits, and even then very few people respond.
SIXTH -- The Zionist State is always threatened by the dangers of war. Whereas the rest of world Jewry live in peace and security, (Except in a few places where the Zionists have undermined their security and fanned the flames of hatred)
SEVENTH -- The Zionist State could not continue to exist without economic support from Jews living outside of the Zionist State.
EIGHTH -- The Zionist State is on the verge of economic collapse, and their money is nearly worthless.
NINTH -- The Zionist State persecute all Jews who are loyal to their Faith.
TENTH -- They start wars that endanger the Jewish People, for the sake of their own political interests.
ELEVENTH - According to the Torah the path of safety is following ways of peace not starting fights with other nations, as the Zionists do.
TWELFTH -- Even if the Zionists could and would provide physical security it would be at the expense of our Faith and Our Torah the true People of Israel prefer death rather than life at such a cost.
It is therefore clear that Zionism is not the savior of the people of Israel. Rather it is their greatest misfortune.
Even though there are some observant Jews and rabbis, who approve of the Zionists, this is not the opinion of the Torah.
The Zionists have enough control over the American news media to make sure that only their side of the story is heard.
They make it look like all Jewry and their rabbis are Zionists, but this is false propaganda.
The most important Rabbis and the majority of religious Jewry are opposed to Zionism, but their voice is not heard because of Zionist control of American news media.
The Zionists terrorize everyone who speaks out against them.
That part of the Jewish masses which is fooled by Zionist propaganda puts pressure on their Rabbis not to speak out.
Between the terror and the pressure of the masses most of the Rabbis are prevented from speaking out.
We bring three testimonies of the true opinion of the Torah.
1) In the past two thousand years of the dangers and sufferings of exile not once did any of the Sages of Israel suggest that we make a state to protect ourselves. In every generation we had thousands of Sages well versed in the Torah.
2) We have thousands of legal work of Torah law that have been handed down to us by the Sages of all generations. Not once do we see a word suggesting the establishment of a state. What we do find is warnings against it.
3) The founders of Zionism were all atheists who denied the Torah. All the Torah Sages of that time opposed them and opposed Zionism, saying that Zionism would lead only to destruction.
1) In the past two thousand years of the dangers and sufferings of exile not once did any of the Sages of Israel suggest that we make a state to protect ourselves. In every generation we had thousands of Sages well versed in the Torah.
2) We have thousands of legal work of Torah law that have been handed down to us by the Sages of all generations. Not once do we see a word suggesting the establishment of a state. What we do find is warnings against it.
3) The founders of Zionism were all atheists who denied the Torah. All the Torah Sages of that time opposed them and opposed Zionism, saying that Zionism would lead only to destruction.
However the true People of Israel will never change their nature or give up their Faith because of the strength the Creator gives them.
Zionism is a foreign growth in the body of the Jewish People. The end will be that it will rid itself of this foreign growth and remain pure.
Zionism has overcome the Jewish people by force, fraud and terror, but none of this will help them because the truth will always remain with the help of the Creator.
Zionism will not replace the Jewish People. The Jewish People will remain strong in their faith and the Zionist State will cease to exist.
It is therefore, our demand that the State that calls itself ISRAEL, should cease to exist. Since this won't be done, we demand that they cease to call themselves "Israel", because their entire being is in complete opposition to the true People of Israel. The true People of Israel deny them permission to call themselves by that name. The Zionist leaders have no right to set themselves up as the representatives and spokesmen of the true People of ISRAEL.
Since we know they will not fulfill this demand either we feel that at least we cry out the truth. The truth will always remain the truth. By no means or force can the truth be changed. Even if all the world would say that one and one is three, the truth will remain that one and one is two.
Let the truth be declared. The use of the Name "ISRAEL" by that State is a complete falsification. The People of Israel have nothing to do with that State. Zionism and its State have no share and no part in the true ISRAEL.
http://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism/opposition.cfm
http://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism/opposition.cfm
The problem with polarisation, is it creates a if you are not with me you are against
me.
Now I have no problem with any country in the world if they do not create wars, blow
people up and bring injustice to bare. The problem with Israel is it is sectarian.
When the majority are muslims, what will they do?
A lot of the extreme muslims want Israel to exist because it justifies their hatred also.
And so the hatred grows, and sucks in all the communities around it.
Christians are having to leave the middle east on mass because both Islam and Judaism
is becoming too militant and unreal. And the more blood shed they generate the more
the problem will grow.
me.
Now I have no problem with any country in the world if they do not create wars, blow
people up and bring injustice to bare. The problem with Israel is it is sectarian.
When the majority are muslims, what will they do?
A lot of the extreme muslims want Israel to exist because it justifies their hatred also.
And so the hatred grows, and sucks in all the communities around it.
Christians are having to leave the middle east on mass because both Islam and Judaism
is becoming too militant and unreal. And the more blood shed they generate the more
the problem will grow.
Hi Angela,
That's quite a bit of information there. I didn't have time to read it all, but I did want to offer some information for you to consider.
You're giving general information from one group of Jews, the orthodox. They are giving their point of view of what they believe about their country, their people, their religion, and who can be considered Jewish by their rules. Just because they say this, it doesn't make it truth. It's their opinion.
The Orthodox Jews (OJ) are more like the Pharasic leaders in Jesus' day. They are similar to Catholics in one way, they hold oral law above the scriptures. They are not considered following Biblical Judaism. The OJ's follow Rabbinic Judaism. They follow commentaries written by Rabbis. They hold to an oral law they claim was given to Moses. They void God's word through their teachings, just like the Pharisees did.
There's also Biblical Judaism and they follow scripture only. You also have Conservative Judaism, Reformed Judaism, Messanic Judaism which most won't acknowledge as Judaism. Among the orthodox, you have ultra orthodox.
Anyway, there's a lot more to be said, but the OJ's would have been rejected by Jesus because they are the modern day Pharisee.
Most of the Israeli Jews are secular.
God has used the Zionist movement to bring about His purposes. Many Jews continue to make Aliyah. What an exciting time in history we're living in.
In America we're all Americans no matter the nationality or religion. It's the same with Israel. At this time in history, the Jews are mostly secular. None of them live by Mosiac law, they can't, even if they wanted to.
It's what God considers Jewish, not man's opinion like the OJ.
1 Thessalonians 2:14-15 KJV
For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
[15] Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
[15] Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
H
Israel keeps trying to build on Palestinian land. Palestine is like a giant prison that the Israelites have built and keep assaulting to take more land. Most Zionists fail to realize that there are Arab churches who are being persecuted by Israel as well. This came from a report of a friend of mine who did missions in Bethlehem. These are not Gods people they are blood thirsty fascists they starve the Palestinian people and disarm them leaving them no option to fight with model rockets to survive. They would stop attacking Israel if Israel abided by the agreement. Israel keeps moving the boundary line which is a sin.
Jesus said He was coming back to the nation Israel.
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39 For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”
Notice the, you will not see me until. Until when? Until they say blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.
Notice it doesn't say if. It's not if you say blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.
There will be a day when Jerusalem will say blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord! and the Lord will return to ZION!
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39 For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”
Notice the, you will not see me until. Until when? Until they say blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.
Notice it doesn't say if. It's not if you say blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.
There will be a day when Jerusalem will say blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord! and the Lord will return to ZION!
Is Paul saying all Jews killed Jesus? No, it was only a few who did.
Jesus spoke in Matthew to the Pharisees and Sadducees accusing them of killing the prophets. There was a crowd that gathered all the time when Jesus went and preached among His people. Some were as large as 4000 and 5000 people, maybe more.
But who did Jesus zero in on with all his accusations? Paul was one of them being a Pharisee. He, when he was Saul was the same type of religious leader that Jesus spoke about. It was only that group of Jews that were being accused, not the nation of Israel, not all Jews.
So actually Paul was included in the accusations Jesus made against the Pharisees. Who knows, he may have even been right there when Jesus really gave it to them calling them white washed tombs.
We can see which Jews were the ones he spoke of in 1 Thessalonians 2:14-15. The scriptures called them Judaizers. They were the same religious zealots that Paul had to deal with though out his ministry. They followed him everywhere and tried to have him stoned and killed.
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