The Great Tribulation - A Futurist Lie

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
A

abcdef

Senior Member
#441
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
#441
Brother Ahwatukee,


Ahwatukee said:
John, I assure you that Satan is alive and well on planet earth
Click to expand...


I Agree

and also still has access to heaven.
Click to expand...

He was thrown down from heaven on the Day of Pentecost.

Rev 12:10, "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."

Now is come salvation......from the 2nd death

The kingdom of our God..........The Pentecost Kingdom of salvation arrives

Power of his Christ........Resurrection


Does salvation come in the middle of the trib?

Does the kingdom of our God come in the middle of the trib?

Does the power of the resurrection come in the middle of the trib?


Satan was thrown down on Pentecost, he has been here, and he is deceiving Magog right now,

But he couldn't surround Jerusalem, to destroy Israel until it was restored.



The chronology has Satan being thrown into the Abyss after Jesus returns to the earth to end the age.
Click to expand...

The "end of the age" of Matt 24, was the end of the temple age in 70 ad. Proven by the parallel passage of Lk 21:20-24.

--

The passage of Rev ch 19, does not show Jesus returning to planet earth.

It says that heaven was opened v 11, not that He returns to earth.

The Sword that He fights the Roman Empire/ Sea Beast with is the Bible.

The souls of the Roman Empire and the false prophet (Caesar), are thrown into the lake of fire.

--

See how there is a remnant in v 21, this is the earth beast /image of the Roman Empire the RCC.

--

The next vision (ch 20) begins with the resurrection of Jesus and the OT saints (1st) and the day of Pentecost.



The reason that he will not be able to deceive the nations is because he will not have access to the surface of the earth during Christ's thousand year reign.

Satan won't be able to tempt or deceive people, because he won't have access to them from the Abyss.
Click to expand...

So, it will be just like the Garden of Eden........no sin......perfection?

Standing in the presence of the tree of life (Jesus)?

Walking and talking with God?

Oh yes, and the tree of the knowledge of evil will be there?

So that Magog can bite the apple of evil and fall all over again?

Mankind will fall from perfection again?

--

And what redemption will there be for them?

The kingdom/Bride age ended at the beginning of the 7 yr trib (your time line).



* You are here

* Jesus appears and gathers the church
Click to expand...

So far I agree, ha ha


* The ruler/antichrist establishes his seven year covenant

* Abomination is set up in the middle of the seven

* Jesus returns to the earth to end the age 3 1/2 years after the setting up of the abomination
Click to expand...

The sign of Jerusalem being destroyed in 70 ad was the AoD.

Rome, Caesar, the 4th beast.

Not future, Lk 21:20-24, swords, led away captive, .........past



* The beast and the false prophet are thrown alive into the lake of fire
Click to expand...

A prophecy of the fall of the Roman Empire (476 ad)

Souls from the Roman Empire,


* Satan is seized and bound in the Abyss for a thousand years.

* Thousand year reign of Christ

* At the end of the thousand years Satan is released and rebels one last time
Click to expand...

Satan is a spirit, he needs a body, flesh.

His flesh is Rome.

He is called the dragon in Rev 20:2.

The dragon is identified in Rev 12:3, 7 heads, 10 horns.

Rome (Vatican) became a nation again in 1929, the nation of Rome is back.

Ok, I suppose you might classify Rome as a city state/nation, as in ancient Greece.




* Great white throne judgment

* Eternity ......................................................................
Click to expand...

I totally agree with this part too.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#442
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#442
Rev 12:10, "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."
Click to expand...


Hello John,

The war of Rev.12 has not yet taken place. Satan and his angels still have access to heaven and that war will not take place until the middle of that seven year period. Trumpets 5, 6 and 7 are woes, with the 7th trumpet being the third woe. These three trumpet woes follow each other in sequence. Since the casting out of Satan and his angels is the 7th Trumpet/3rd woe, trumpets 5 and 6 would have had to have taken place prior to the 7th trumpet. That said, I have not seen any demonic beings that have come up out of the Abyss, tormenting the inhabitants of the earth with stings like that of scorpions and there is also no historical or biblical record of such an event taking place.

Also, regarding the 6th trumpet/2nd woe, we have not seen a third of the earth's population killed via the fire, sulfur and smoke that proceeds from mouths of those demonic beings. Therefore, since trumpets 5 and 6 have not yet taken place, then neither could trumpet 7. That is of course unless you want to slap on a symbolic meaning in order to find fulfillment. :rolleyes:
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#443
#443
Good to see the mods move so quickly.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#444
#444
abcdef said:
Brother EG,

Satan was cast down to earth on the Day of Pentecost, Rev 12:10, "...now is come the kingdom...".

He cannot return to heaven,

He has been here ever since.

But he could not deceive the nations until Jerusalem was restored to Israel, Rev 12:15-16.

----

The idea the the 1000 yr reign is a time of peace on earth, is only for those in the Pentecost Kingdom who have God's blessings.

Jesus reigns from His throne in heaven,

To say that His throne is here on earth must be assumed.

The rest of the world goes on as usual with wars and sin.
Click to expand...
Hey brother.

Satan was not cast down to earth, Scripture says he is in heaven making accusations against the saints all the time.. And what does that have to do with him being bound in the bottomless pit. That is not earth, and again, If he is bound, he is unable to do anything.

He has been decieving the nations ever since (Communism, Naziism, Marxism, etc etc..)

Yes, Jesus reigns in his throne in heaven, One day he will reign in his throne in jerusalem. And satan will be bound. AMEN and AMEN.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#445
#445
ZEEK said:
lol, My Lord, what hole do Americans live under?

Most of the world views Israel in a very poor light.

As does the Bible, and most Jews.

Dear oh dear.

And you lot, who want to funnel all of us back into Jerusalem and then spark Armageddon call us the anti-Semites?

Begone child of Satan
Click to expand...

oh boy, what kind of crazy talk is this. Funny how Israel sits at peace talks, it is the muslims who do not. They fire all kinds of rockets into Israel killing many civilians, yet Israel sits still, when she has every right to defend herself. Islam is the enemy not Israel (althrough she is an enemy of the Gospel (see rom 11) yet no more or less than islam. Islamists want Israel (and the US) dead. why do you think they hate us so much,

Israel is the most hated nation on earth..

Hate to say it brother, but people are not going to move God, he moves at his own time.. But I and my family is in much more danger from Muslims and socialist nations such as russia and china than Israel.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#446
#446
ZEEK said:
Sorry KaylaGirl, but you are **personal attack removed**

You are clueless about the Bible.

Clueless about the world outside your backyard.

Clueless about the Israeli state.

Clueless about the Jews and how we feel about Zionist Israel.

Go back in your hole.

Stick your vile Zionism back where it belongs

Theodore Herzl:

“One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail.”
Click to expand...
It happens again, This topic is so heated, its bound to happen, I think more people get banned over this subject than any other subject.. It shows the HATE that is ongoing..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#447
#447
abcdef said:
Brother EG,

Please examine Rev 20 again.


"Deceive the nations"


What does the term encompass in the context of this passage, exclusively for now?

It says that he cannot deceive the nations until the 1000 yrs is fulfilled, v 3.


What does this mean?

-------

Does it mean that there is no sin during the 1000 yrs?


That people will not have any evil thoughts, or lust of the flesh to have children?

Will there be no money or possessions to lust after?

--

And if there is sin,

How will people be saved? By faith? That which is seen (Jesus during the 1000 yr reign), is not hope (faith), Ro 8:24.

--

And what about the gift of the Holy Spirit? They need to repent first, Acts 2:38

--

And then if they do accept Jesus, then they cannot be members of the Bride of Christ/Pentecost Kingdom and receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

That is, If the wedding is over, with the trib, what kingdom, if any, will they enter unto if the "kingdom" is on earth?

What covenant will they be under?

NT? That time of the promise of the Holy Spirit covenant would be over when the kingdom is taken at the beginning of the trib (on your time line).

--

If there is no sin...how can Magog (gentile nations) rebel?

-------------


What are the "nations", that it is talking about?


V 8, Magog

The nations that are described in v3, as being deceived, are Magog.

That is, Satan cannot deceive the nations Magog, into surrounding Jerusalem, until the 1000 yrs are fulfilled.

See, that is what he does when he is released from the prison, he deceives Magog into surrounding Jerusalem.

(Remember that he is called the dragon in v 2, identified in Rev 12:3, 17:3.)

Israel had to be restored to Jerusalem, for this to happen, as they are now.

----


How are they deceived by Satan/dragon?


Rev 16:13-14.


---


How is Satan/dragon bound? Exclusive to Rev 20?


He is thrown into the abyss.

He cannot Deceive the nations Magog into surrounding Jerusalem.
Click to expand...
1. He is throne into the Abyss (bottomless pit) and chained.

That means he can not DO ANYTHING.

so please..

2. If I can decieve a person, I can decieve a group of people. if I can decieve a group of people. I can deceive a bunch of people, if I can decieve a bunch of people. I can have them make the nations do whatever I want.

Why do you think people live in peace.. It is because there is no satan to do anything.. How do you think he decieves when he is realeased. He starts with induviduals, And then gains an army.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#448
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#448
abcdef said:
Brother EG,

Please examine Rev 20 again.


"Deceive the nations"


What does the term encompass in the context of this passage, exclusively for now?

It says that he cannot deceive the nations until the 1000 yrs is fulfilled, v 3.


What does this mean?

-------

Does it mean that there is no sin during the 1000 yrs?


That people will not have any evil thoughts, or lust of the flesh to have children?

Will there be no money or possessions to lust after?

--

And if there is sin,

How will people be saved? By faith? That which is seen (Jesus during the 1000 yr reign), is not hope (faith), Ro 8:24.

--

And what about the gift of the Holy Spirit? They need to repent first, Acts 2:38

--

And then if they do accept Jesus, then they cannot be members of the Bride of Christ/Pentecost Kingdom and receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

That is, If the wedding is over, with the trib, what kingdom, if any, will they enter unto if the "kingdom" is on earth?

What covenant will they be under?

NT? That time of the promise of the Holy Spirit covenant would be over when the kingdom is taken at the beginning of the trib (on your time line).

--

If there is no sin...how can Magog (gentile nations) rebel?

-------------


What are the "nations", that it is talking about?


V 8, Magog

The nations that are described in v3, as being deceived, are Magog.

That is, Satan cannot deceive the nations Magog, into surrounding Jerusalem, until the 1000 yrs are fulfilled.

See, that is what he does when he is released from the prison, he deceives Magog into surrounding Jerusalem.

(Remember that he is called the dragon in v 2, identified in Rev 12:3, 17:3.)

Israel had to be restored to Jerusalem, for this to happen, as they are now.

----


How are they deceived by Satan/dragon?


Rev 16:13-14.


---


How is Satan/dragon bound? Exclusive to Rev 20?


He is thrown into the abyss.

He cannot Deceive the nations Magog into surrounding Jerusalem.
Click to expand...
....................;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.