Did Christ do enough to save us?

PeterJens · Jan 20, 2017

I have a simple observation to make, how form of delivery can be used to condemn or
confirm truth rather than the content itself.

A ladder works to get you up to a roof to clear a blocked gutter.
To be exact, a ladder only works if you can use rungs and climb it, else it is useless.

If a ladder is useless there is no point for it to exist.

So behind many statements there are assumptions.
If a speaker is theologically wrong if he shows an obvious assumption, it shows the
critic does not know the meaning of the theology or even how to use language.

And I am writing this, because a whole group think they know what is faith and
walking with Christ, yet applaud such simple mistakes.

How confused is a person who thinks making this simple mistake does not highlight
their own convictions and delusions rather than seeing the truth?

DiscipleDave · Jan 22, 2017

FreeNChrist said:

Jesus is the Word, Therefore if you are going to continue to live your lives in Him, you would continue to live your lives in the Word. Therefore you will continue to live by the Word of God and what it says to do and not do.

Those who get Saved by Grace through Faith, are then to start DOING what Jesus Christ Commanded them to do, and that is to LOVE ONE ANOTHER. Jesus said if you Love Me, you will DO what I say. He also said "Why do you call me Lord and not do the things that I say? Therefore AFTER we are SAVED we are to DO what Jesus Christ COMMANDED us to do. That is what a person MUST do AFTER they are Saved by Grace through Faith.

What then? After a person is SAVED by Jesus Christ, they don't have to do what He tells them to do? Did He not say:

Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

So you are SAVED NOW, Are you DOING what He said or not?

Joh_13:34 A new commandment I (Jesus, your Lord and Savior) give unto you, That ye Love One Another; as I have loved you, that ye also Love One Another.

Are you, who claims to be Saved, DOING this or not doing what He COMMANDED?

So you got Saved, you were grafted into the tree. Are you producing good fruits or no fruits at all? If you are producing good fruits, He will cause you to produce even more good fruits, if you are producing no fruits or bad fruits, he will cut your branch off and burn it with fire.

So you got Saved, are you doing things that can get you blotted out of the Book of Life?

So you got Saved, What now, you don't have to DO anything at all, Jesus did it all for you, you can do whatever you want now, good or evil it doesn't matter, and you are still on the narrow and difficult path that leads to life everlasting?

So you got Saved, Nothing else required. Not even DOING what Jesus Commanded us to do, right?

People wake up before it is to late. There is a difference between Getting Saved, and Being Saved. Anyone can be Saved, anyone can accept Jesus as their Savior and Lord, we this done in the parable of the seeds by the wayside, they received the Word with Joy, but fell away from it afterwards. All of Scriptures teaches us what we MUST DO, after we receive the free Gift of Salvation, AFTER we are Saved by Grace through Faith in Him. After we accept Him as our Lord and Savior. Scriptures plainly teach us what we MUST do after we are Saved. False doctrines teach NOTHING else is required. Well how easy is that, how wide is that path that most will be on, and they are on that path because they believe a lie. Know you not that that who are on that wide and EASY path, THINK they are on the narrow and difficult path? They are deceived, and do not know the Truth. Believe Scriptures, NOT the false doctrines that is prevalent today. If the world Loves you, i would question your Christian walk. satan is the God of this world, if the world love you, how are you not a part of the world. Do you Love life?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave · Jan 22, 2017

FreeNChrist said:

Could you explain why you think that i am hanging around the wrong crowd? Have i said anywhere at all, who i hang around with and who i do not hang around with? Why do you then assume that i hang around the wrong crowd?

If i say this generation, do you think i am only referring to those who i hang around with, is that what you are thinking?

If you do not know any Christians who are Saved who have no love, no fruits, or no good works. Then that is NOT This generation.

If i then say This generation does not love, has no fruits, does not good works. Then i am specifically talking about those people who do not Love, has no fruits, and does not have any good works. If you or who you hang around with, does not fit into that category, then you or they are not a part of this generation that i am referring to.

Clearly in what i said above i am not talking about those who do have LOVE, do have Good fruits, Good works. Therefore not talking about you or who you hang around with, or who i hang around with, if indeed all of them have Love One for Another, then they are NOT a part of this generation that i am referring to.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave · Jan 22, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

There are three different kinds of sin according to Scriptures

1) Sins unto Death
2) Sins not unto Death
3) Sins not forgiven unto man

Sins unto Death are those that are KNOWINGLY AND WILLINGLY committed, you know full well they are sinful but you choose to do them anyways.
Sins not unto Death are sins that you do NOT knowingly and willingly commit, thus to stumble. a person who stumbles does not do it on purpose. To stumble is not to intentionally do it.

eternally-gratefull said:

So what you are saying is that every time you commit a sin, you need Jesus to go to the cross for you? Is that what you are saying?

Or did Jesus go to the cross ONCE for you, the moment you GOT SAVED, and all your PAST sins were forgiven you, because of what He did on the cross.

Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;(What the Word of God teaches)

This verse does not say what this generation likes to believe it says such as:

Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, present, and future, through the forbearance of God; (adding to the Word of God)

eternally-gratefull said:

if the cross is not enough, we are all doomed.

Click to expand...

What Jesus did on the Cross is enough to "Get us Saved" Now because of what He did on the cross for us, we are NOW suppose to DO what He says. He commands us to LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

eternally-gratefull said:

Christ did not say, I did my part, now you do yours, He said it is finished, period.

Click to expand...

No, He did do His part to Save us, and now we are to do our part because He Saved us. Jesus Himself teaches us to Love One another, that is what He expects us to do, now that we are Saved because Jesus did His part, NOW we are to do our part because He saved us. If you Love Jesus you WILL DO what He tells us to do. PERIOD. He even said, why do you call me Lord and not do the things I say? How many call Him "Lord" and do not Love One Another? Do NOT DO what He says?

Those who love Jesus will do what He says.
Those who love satan will not Love Others.
Your Master is to whom you choose to obey. if you obey satan, Jesus is not your Master. This is all Scriptural.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave · Jan 22, 2017

psalm6819 said:

Those who believe Faith ONLY are wicked and do not know the TRUTH
Those who believe Works ONLY are wicked and do not know the TRUTH.
Those who believe Scriptures, knows that it is Faith & Works that go hand in hand. As does Scriptures teach all over.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should 1) believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ,(Faith) AND 2) love one another,(Works) as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Do you receive whatsoever you ask in prayer? Maybe you are one of those who believe FAITH ONLY is enough, and do not have to have any works. OR Maybe you are one of those who believe WORKS ONLY is enough, and don't need to have faith? Do i teach Faith & Works go together? or does Scriptures plainly teaches that TRUTH. Which this generation refuses to believe it or understand it.

So this generation can go and accuse me of false things, but it is not me who teaches Faith and Works go hand in hand, it is the Word of God that teaches that over and over and over again. So you Faith ONLY believers continue to believe the lie that you do, You Works ONLY believers continue to believe the lie that you do, BOTH of you shall fall into the same ditch, because you refuse to see and understand the Scriptures which teach plainly and clearly over and over and over again, that Faith and Works go hand in hand, not one without the Other.
Faith ONLY Saves a person. But AFTER a person is SAVED, they are to start DOING what Jesus Christ told them to do, which is to LOVE ONE ANOTHER. So Faith ONLY does get a person Saved. But once a person IS Saved, they are most certainly to have good works with their Faith.

That is why Scriptures plainly teaches WE ARE TO HAVE GOOD WORKS:

Mat_5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Eph_2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

1Ti_2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

1Ti_6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

2Ti_3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Tit_2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

Tit_2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Tit_3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Tit_3:14 And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

Heb_10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

So then if i come teaching in the name of God to have good works, which Scriptures teach the exact same thing, why am i spoken evil against? Why am i called false? Why am i attacked personally? Why am i belittled? i will tell you why, because this generation THINKS they know the TRUTH, and anyone who teaches something different then what THEY believe is the TRUTH, that person is wrong and therefore must be a wicked person.

So then am i to believe all those who teach against Works, or believe Scriptures which plainly teaches us to Maintain good works. Woe to this generation which THINK they know a thing, and know nothing at all not being weened off milk. And when they are given meat, spew it out because it is not milk that they love.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DiscipleDave · Jan 22, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

This is an example of interpreting Scriptures which need no interpretation. Interpretations belong to God NOT to men. You say above We all sin and fall short of God's glory (perfection), and you get that from a particular Scripture that you interpreted incorrectly. The Verse does not say what you have said here. This is what the verse actually says:

Rom_3:23 For all HAVE sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

It does not say as you are saying that all WILL sin. You are seeing things that are not there, you are interpreting that verse to mean something that it does not say. For all HAVE sinned, it does not say For all WILL sin like you are teaching, something that is contrary to Scriptures.

Rom_5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all HAVE sinned: (Confirmation, that Scriptures teach For all HAVE sinned, it does not say For all WILL sin, like you would like to believe)

Please try to believe Scriptures and what they actually say and teach, do not change Scriptures to fit into what you believe is the Truth.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

FreeNChrist · Jan 22, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

Bibliolatry at its finest.

Jesus is the living Word. Therefore to continue to live in Him, is to continue to live in Him.

FreeNChrist · Jan 22, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

Could you explain why you think that i am hanging around the wrong crowd? Have i said anywhere at all, who i hang around with and who i do not hang around with? Why do you then assume that i hang around the wrong crowd?

If i say this generation, do you think i am only referring to those who i hang around with, is that what you are thinking?

If you do not know any Christians who are Saved who have no love, no fruits, or no good works. Then that is NOT This generation.

If i then say This generation does not love, has no fruits, does not good works. Then i am specifically talking about those people who do not Love, has no fruits, and does not have any good works. If you or who you hang around with, does not fit into that category, then you or they are not a part of this generation that i am referring to.

Clearly in what i said above i am not talking about those who do have LOVE, do have Good fruits, Good works. Therefore not talking about you or who you hang around with, or who i hang around with, if indeed all of them have Love One for Another, then they are NOT a part of this generation that i am referring to.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

This "whole generation" would include you as well. LOL.

PeterJens · Jan 22, 2017

The shadow boxer.

For some reason a whole group think people are being discouraged because the standard
of walking with Jesus is impossible to obtain.

Now a whole series of discussions has been put forward to say when unfruitful the branches
are not cut off, they are lifted up.

So the whole idea is failure is ok, not seeing things change in ones life, you are still in the
heart of the Lord.

But this discussion is actually about something else. Are we saved through being religious
and not opening up our hearts, and the answer being provided is yes.

But in truth, if you open your heart and reach out to Christ He will reach out to you.

DiscipleDave · Jan 28, 2017

FreeNChrist said:

OK, so you disagree. Could you please reveal in Scriptures anything that disagrees with what i said above? Or Does Scriptures agree with what i say above, but YOU disagree?

Is it not written to be DOERS of the Word, Therefore if i say and teach to be DOERS of the Word, how do you now disagree with that? Do you disagree with the Word of God? It sure seems that way.

The Word teaches be DOERS of the Word not hearers only
i teach what i say above, and you disagree, why is that?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Stunnedbygrace · Jan 29, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

This is an example of interpreting Scriptures which need no interpretation. Interpretations belong to God NOT to men. You say above We all sin and fall short of God's glory (perfection), and you get that from a particular Scripture that you interpreted incorrectly. The Verse does not say what you have said here. This is what the verse actually says:

Rom_3:23 For all HAVE sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

It does not say as you are saying that all WILL sin. You are seeing things that are not there, you are interpreting that verse to mean something that it does not say. For all HAVE sinned, it does not say For all WILL sin like you are teaching, something that is contrary to Scriptures.

Rom_5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all HAVE sinned: (Confirmation, that Scriptures teach For all HAVE sinned, it does not say For all WILL sin, like you would like to believe)

Please try to believe Scriptures and what they actually say and teach, do not change Scriptures to fit into what you believe is the Truth.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

I see this done all the time with this verse: if we abide in him we do not sin.
My first thought was: then I want to abide in Him because I don't want to sin so what does abide mean??
But the first thought I see some think and say in response to if we abide in Him we do not sin is:
Oh but no! If we abide in Him we WILL still sin!

Ariel82 · Jan 29, 2017

Jesus isn't an "it".

Welcome back Disciple Dave.

Stirring this pot back up?

Hopefully folks can have a mature respectful conversation and not fall into bad habits.

I believe I missed this thread 1st go around. Just read from first 6 day ago post on last page.

Ariel82 · Jan 29, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

This is True, for one to GET SAVED. But those who GET SAVED, better start living by what the Word of God tells them to do. Getting SAVED and Being Saved are two different things.

Anyone can GET SAVED, it is a free gift given to anyone who will recieve it. But just because someone accepts Jesus as their Savior and LORD, (SAVED) does not mean they will remain there. That is what Jesus gave the parable of the seeds by the wayside. Remember the seeds upon the rocks. They accepted the Word with JOY, but did not remain in it, did they? Getting Saved is EASY and is a gift to anyone who will receive it. BEING SAVED is a narrow and difficult path, which only a very few will find it, but these same will be wearing the "HOPE of Salvation" as a helmet to help them on that narrow and difficult path that leads to (notice they have not arrived at it, until the end of the path) to Life Everlasting. As long as a person is on the path that leads there, they have not achieved it, it is only if they endure to the end, do they achieve the prize of Everlasting Life. Many claim they are on the narrow and difficult path, not realizing they are indeed on the broad and wide and easy path, which all the FAITH ONLY believers adhere to. Tell me, how is the path that you are on, difficult? If you already have SALVATION? Salvation is at the end of the narrow and difficult path. This generation falsely believe they have already attained the prize of Salvation, because they merely believe, they merely believe they are on the narrow and difficult path, how is that not a broad and easy path that leads to destruction?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

No getting saved isn't easy.

We should examine the parable you quoted here....wow this is a long thread. I did read to page 5, but apologize if it's need discussed....will skim rest now

Ariel82 · Jan 29, 2017

Matthew 13

“Therefore hear the parable of the sower: When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside.

******

You see the SEED if the GOSPEL. Not everyone who receives the GOSPEL message is saved.

Some have it stolen from their hearts by Satan. We have atheist, agnostics, etc who don't accept the GOSPEL:

Jesus died for our sins upon the cross so that we might be born again children of God.

So they HEAR but don't UNDERSTAND.

Ariel82 · Jan 29, 2017

"But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles."

Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful."

These are people who like the message but don't walk with the Holy Spirit. They have no roots. They have not died to their fleshly desires and have not been born again. They still seek the pleasures of this world and only view the gospel as a get out of hell free card. They are adulterers with this world. Praying only to spend upon their own lust. They have hearts of stone and have not been humbled or broken or contrite before the Lord. When trials come, they curse God and die..for they had no roots in Christ.

These did not near fruits of repentance and were not saved either.

Ariel82 · Jan 29, 2017

Aaargh....need to edit more before posting..rushing, cuz kids will be up for church soon.

Ariel82 · Jan 29, 2017

"But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles."

These are people who like the message but don't walk with the Holy Spirit. They have no roots. They follow a teacher or pastor but don't study themselves. They have no prayer life. When trouble arises in their life, they don't seek God in prayer but allow their hope to die (since their hope and faith was in the person telling the message and not God, himself). Often they have the false belief that God doesn't love them or other false doctrines because they haven't studied or prayed for themselves.

These did not follow God but just people and were not saved either.

Ariel82 · Jan 29, 2017

Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful."
****

The thorny seed people:
They have not died to their fleshly desires and have not been born again. They still seek the pleasures of this world and only view the gospel as a get out of hell free card. They are adulterers with this world. Praying only to spend upon their own lust. They have not died to self and have not been born again.

Thus they are not saved either.

So you see, being saved isn't "easy".

FreeNChrist · Jan 29, 2017

DiscipleDave said:

"For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.” Rom. 1:17

PeterJens · Jan 29, 2017

Let us reverse the idea.

If we are doers of the word are we evil? No, we are righteous. Why? Because
we can only be doers of the word if we are walking in communion with Christ.

Being a doer does not make you in communion with Christ, it shows where you are.
The problem is people have only seen closed hearted doers of actions, and know its
hyprocracy within, and how sin still abides in their actions and hearts. So they rightly
hate this false way of appearing to walk with Christ.

But there is a proper way to walk with an open cleaned heart, blamelessly in purity
and holiness before our King. Now I know people will sin in unbelief at such a statement
and the cynism of this world stocked by the enemy will take away the promises of the cross
and the Holy Spirit to make it possible, but this is the gospel.

We are a Holy People, born of God. This is our place, why Christ died, the old man put to
death, and the new man brought to life.

Did Christ do enough to save us?

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