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Thread: all works are not created equal

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    Default Re: all works are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    A work is a work is a work.

    The works of the law. were works to bless Israel if they followed them (a reward)
    The works of Jesus to his church are for blessing those individuals who do them (a reward)

    We work to earn rewards. A gift is given freely, It can never be "earned" otherwise it is a reward, not a gift.

    A work is something someone can boast in (our reward is our boasting trophy) A man or woman "works" to receive a paycheck, An athlete "works" to earn some type of reward. From a medal, to a trophy, to a ribbon,

    The bible is clear. Salvation is a GIFT of God, NOT A REWARD one must earn. Abraham, we are told, was not saved by works, otherwise he would have reason to boast. and recieved a reward (called in this context a "Wage"), We are told we are saved by FAITH via grace, not works, lest we should boast (having earned our reward)

    Pau makes it clear. if it is grace, it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace, if it is of works, it is no longer of grace etc etc..

    it can not be faith plus works, they are opposed to each other, It has to be one or the other.

    Which one will you chose? Works (it does not matter if they are works of the Law. NT works WOrks of Jesus, a work is a work) or is it of grace through faith (no works)

    The choice is yours.
    Like I said, all works are not created equal. Works of faith are not the same as something we earn. Neither is it a reward. It is something God does through out action that we could not do ourselves.

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    Default Re: all works are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by samuel23 View Post
    OK, if you are calling the act of believing and asking Jesus to be our savior a work, then in that sense we are saved by God's grace and our work. I don't really think that most folks will think of their acceptance of Christ as Savior as a work.
    But that is exactly what James calls it and what Paul and the author of Hebrews says it is. We are the initiator of the work, "I believe and therefore SPEAK". The speaking is the action we take because of what we believe in our heart. The speaking is the work of faith.

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    Default Re: all works are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post

    Good point, I am not saved by faith (a work) I am saved because of the work of someone else (God) God sent people in my life, God did the work of helping me to understand, God did the work of the cross, God did the work of creation.

    Scripture says I am saved BY GRACE THROUGH faith, Not by faith.

    One could say I am saved BY GRACE through FAITH in the WORK OF GOD.

    all other gospels of the world are claiming we are saved by FAITH PLUS WORKS or WORKS alone.

    The own who does not truat Gods work is enough, Says we are saved BY faith plus works (work added to the cross)

    The religious says we are saved by works (Jews have the law, Islam has their laws. In fact most if not all world religion say we are saved by how we we obey some set of laws (how morally good we are)

    How do you tie in this: Your faith has saved you. Go and sin no more.
    And don't think I am arguing. I am trying to understand the whole round ball.

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    Default Re: all works are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by know1 View Post
    But that is exactly what James calls it and what Paul and the author of Hebrews says it is. We are the initiator of the work, "I believe and therefore SPEAK". The speaking is the action we take because of what we believe in our heart. The speaking is the work of faith.
    God is the Initiator, man is the responder.

    “How foolish can you be? After starting your new lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?”
    Gal 3:3



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    Default Re: all works are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by Stunnedbygrace View Post
    How do you tie in this: Your faith has saved you. Go and sin no more.
    And don't think I am arguing. I am trying to understand the whole round ball.
    Please read post 20. I tried again to explain the work of faith, and let me know, if you would, if you at least understood it.

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    Default Re: all works are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeNChrist View Post
    God is the Initiator, man is the responder.
    I think you missed what I was trying to convey. I am not taking anything away from God, who initially DRAWS and even PROMPTS us to do what He wants, but when we act on that belief, that action we take is the work of faith I have been referring to. God might prompt you to pray for someone, but you have a choice whether to act on that prompt or not, and if you chose to act on it such as I did with a bone spur in my hand, then God steps in and moves according to OUR faith.

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    Default Re: all works are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by know1 View Post
    I think you missed what I was trying to convey. I am not taking anything away from God, who initially DRAWS and even PROMPTS us to do what He wants, but when we act on that belief, that action we take is the work of faith I have been referring to. God might prompt you to pray for someone, but you have a choice whether to act on that prompt or not, and if you chose to act on it such as I did with a bone spur in my hand, then God steps in and moves according to OUR faith.

    We gave a choice to respond.....or not.

    “How foolish can you be? After starting your new lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?”
    Gal 3:3



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    Default Re: all works are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by Stunnedbygrace View Post
    How do you tie in this: Your faith has saved you. Go and sin no more.
    And don't think I am arguing. I am trying to understand the whole round ball.

    Tie to what? (I do not understand your question)

    Your faith has saved you (your sin has not condemned you) now, Go, and do not do it again.. or else I will take your salvation back?

    He never said she would lose salvation if she did do it again. so again, Not sure what you mean..
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: all works are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by know1 View Post
    Like I said, all works are not created equal. Works of faith are not the same as something we earn.

    Never said they were.

    But even works of faith allow us to EARN reward.


    Neither is it a reward. It is something God does through out action that we could not do ourselves.

    Salvation is not a reward. it id a gift, So why anyone would try to make it into a reward, I can not understand

    A gift is freely given, a reward is earned.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: all works are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeNChrist View Post
    We gave a choice to respond.....or not.
    Are you able to draw a distinction between what a work of the law is, or what a good work is, or what the fruits of the Spirit are, or what a work of faith is? I ask, because most seem to be associating works of the law, good works, and fruit of the Spirit with works of faith. I have been trying to explain what works of faith are. Would you care to give it a shot?

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    Default Re: all works are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by know1 View Post
    Are you able to draw a distinction between what a work of the law is, or what a good work is, or what the fruits of the Spirit are, or what a work of faith is? I ask, because most seem to be associating works of the law, good works, and fruit of the Spirit with works of faith. I have been trying to explain what works of faith are. Would you care to give it a shot?
    Good works originate in and from Christ, done in His energy, with Him as the source. Those are the only works that have any lasting eternal value.

    “How foolish can you be? After starting your new lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?”
    Gal 3:3



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    Default Re: all works are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeNChrist View Post
    Good works originate in and from Christ, done in His energy, with Him as the source. Those are the only works that have any lasting eternal value.
    Anyone who does what is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God.
    3 John 1:11

    A good work, helping someone is not exclusive to believers.
    The story of the good samaritan is a case in point.

    Acts of love have everlasting value, which include all good works.

    Nothing tells us that anyone good or evil cannot do an act of love.

    And equally all of life is part of Gods gift to mankind so part of who
    Christ is.
    I share "Jesus Christ and him crucified" 1 cor 2:2
    "He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 cor 15:57

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you

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    Default Re: all works are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post

    Never said they were.

    But even works of faith allow us to EARN reward.
    How is it a reward. Yes, it is rewarding, but it certainly is not earned. If anything, it would be a fruit.

    Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
    Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
    Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
    Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
    Joh 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post

    Salvation is not a reward. it id a gift, So why anyone would try to make it into a reward, I can not understand

    A gift is freely given, a reward is earned.
    If you understood what works of faith were and didn't see it as a reward, then we could start off on the right foot. We are saved by grace ONLY because of WHO is inside us before we act on what we believe. Salvation is made only AFTER we act on what we believe, which is to confess Jesus as our personal lord and savior.

    Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    Scripture shows that salvation is made after one confesses, not before. One believes to become righteous, but until confession or some other act of faith is made, salvation has not taken place. That is why James says, "but wilt thou know oh vain man, that faith without works is dead?" He goes on to say that even Abraham was justified by His work of faith.

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    Default Re: all works are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeNChrist View Post
    Good works originate in and from Christ, done in His energy, with Him as the source. Those are the only works that have any lasting eternal value.
    Okay, then please explain the kind of works James is referring to when he said, faith without works is dead, and that a man is justified by works.

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    Default Re: all works are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by know1 View Post
    How is it a reward. Yes, it is rewarding, but it certainly is not earned. If anything, it would be a fruit.

    Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
    Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
    Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
    Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
    Joh 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
    A work by definition is a work done by a person to relieve a reward.

    a wage is a reward, A crown is a reward. Gold silver and precious stones are rewards, Yes, even wood hay and straw are rewards.

    salvation is not a reward. So why are you even trying to compare the two? I do not understand.


    If you understood what works of faith were and didn't see it as a reward, then we could start off on the right foot.
    This makes no sense, Faith is not a work, So how can you even compare the two? Faith is not even a reward, IT TO IS A GIFT.




    We are saved by grace ONLY because of WHO is inside us before we act on what we believe.
    Well since God is not INSIDE us UNTIL we have faith, again, Not sure what you mean here.

    Salvation is made only AFTER we act on what we believe,

    No, Salvation is made only AFTER we have faith. Abraham was saved BEFORE he did one act, He trusted God and God accredited to his account righteousness.


    which is to confess Jesus as our personal lord and savior.

    Confess it to who, God or man (rom 10?)
    And this is not a work, unless your tryign to draw attention, Like the pharisee did. which would make it a filthy rag workbecause they were trying to gain from it.
    Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    Thats not a work, That is trusting in GODS work.
    Scripture shows that salvation is made after one confesses, not before. One believes to become righteous, but until confession or some other act of faith is made, salvation has not taken place. That is why James says, "but wilt thou know oh vain man, that faith without works is dead?" He goes on to say that even Abraham was justified by His work of faith.
    Paul said Abraham was saved NOT BY WORKS, else he has something to gain (a reward)

    Abraham trusted in Gods work, not his own, thats the point. James were speaking to hearers not doers. You can CONFESS all you want, if your faith is dead it means nothing.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: all works are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by know1 View Post
    Okay, then please explain the kind of works James is referring to when he said, faith without works is dead, and that a man is justified by works.

    Don't be hearers of the word only but doers also.

    James spoke to people who claimed to have faith, But did not have faith at all (it was dead) they had just mere belief.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: all works are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by know1 View Post
    Okay, then please explain the kind of works James is referring to when he said, faith without works is dead, and that a man is justified by works.
    Living faith is faith that is alive with the life of Christ. Works that are not derived from the life of Christ are dead works.
    Grace777x70 likes this.

    “How foolish can you be? After starting your new lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?”
    Gal 3:3



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    Default Re: all works are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeNChrist View Post
    Living faith is faith that is alive with the life of Christ. Works that are not derived from the life of Christ are dead works.
    Would you be so kind as to give me an example of this living faith and that which is not from the life of Christ which you call dead works?

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    Default Re: all works are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post

    Don't be hearers of the word only but doers also.
    Would you care to elaborate further, about being a doer of the word and not a hearer only? I know what a hearer only is, but what does a doer of the word do?
    Again, an example or two would be nice. Thanks.

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    Default Re: all works are not created equal

    Quote Originally Posted by know1 View Post
    Would you be so kind as to give me an example of this living faith and that which is not from the life of Christ which you call dead works?
    Go. Go and live your life trusting that Christ is leading you, guiding you, opening and closing doors before you as you go. It is not the nature of what we do that determines whether it is a good work or not, it is the origin.

    “How foolish can you be? After starting your new lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?”
    Gal 3:3



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