Unconditional Election or Conditional Election
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I believe that God, before He created the Universe, was seeing all possible worlds with all possible combinations of acts, decisions etc.
And He chose to create our world, because He liked it the most.
He chose to create the world where I and you will come to faith, because this world was the best of all possible worlds.
So, am I for conditional or unconditional election? I think both
And He chose to create our world, because He liked it the most.
He chose to create the world where I and you will come to faith, because this world was the best of all possible worlds.
So, am I for conditional or unconditional election? I think both
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We see God using the unsaved for his purposes all the time -- Shinarians, (Tower of Babel), Pharaoh, Balaam, Saul, Herod, Judas, Pontius Pilate, etc.
And, no, God didn't select John or Jack for hell. They did the crime, so had to do the time. The difference is one he elected to have his crime put on Christ instead.
If we but understand hell is what we deserve, being elected is a much bigger deal! God created that new creation too in the blood on the cross.
And, no, God didn't select John or Jack for hell. They did the crime, so had to do the time. The difference is one he elected to have his crime put on Christ instead.
If we but understand hell is what we deserve, being elected is a much bigger deal! God created that new creation too in the blood on the cross.
it isn't God that rejects us we reject him. I don't believe in election or predestination when it comes to being saved because i saw how far Jesus was willing to go for the sake of even the worst of us, this made me seek a kind of love with him for him and for all others that is so deep and so rich that I would be willing to burn in the very fires of hell itself for a time just for the sake of one lost soul no matter how evil their hearts or how blood stained their souls.
This is the love I saw in him and is the love I know is in his heart and believe me when I say he would be willing to go even further. Love will go to the extreme of extremes for even the worst of people this is why I stand where I do on this subject
This is the love I saw in him and is the love I know is in his heart and believe me when I say he would be willing to go even further. Love will go to the extreme of extremes for even the worst of people this is why I stand where I do on this subject
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[SUP]10 [/SUP]“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? [SUP]11 [/SUP]Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? [SUP]13 [/SUP]No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]14 [/SUP]Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,[SUP][f][/SUP] [SUP]15 [/SUP]that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”[SUP][g][/SUP]
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. [SUP]19 [/SUP]This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. [SUP]21 [/SUP]But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
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And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:
14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
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16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. [SUP]19 [/SUP]This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. [SUP]21 [/SUP]But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
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And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:
14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
Tools
16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Isn't biblical? then what do you make of this? Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.
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You mean God isn't in control, we are? And we trump God's will, therefore deserve salvation?
You are a puppet, but not God's necessarily. We have to serve somebody. We always choose ourselves.
John 3:[FONT="]19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.[/FONT]
You are a puppet, but not God's necessarily. We have to serve somebody. We always choose ourselves.
John 3:[FONT="]19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.[/FONT]
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Your god is a little god because he needs Man to choose.
He doesn't make men to go to hell. Did that jerk in Florida not deserve punishment for his sins either? He shot many people. According to your version of god, he should be saved from what he deserves too. Only that can be called "GOOD." Men go to hell for the same reason that guy is going to prison -- we did something that makes us DESERVE it.
God is good. He expects true justice!
He doesn't make men to go to hell. Did that jerk in Florida not deserve punishment for his sins either? He shot many people. According to your version of god, he should be saved from what he deserves too. Only that can be called "GOOD." Men go to hell for the same reason that guy is going to prison -- we did something that makes us DESERVE it.
God is good. He expects true justice!
But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen
plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
I don't see it being said we are forced into the light, or dragged against our will.
It seems some do believe that, though. They are a puppet choosing themselves
always according to them, and yet that means neither are they saved.
plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
I don't see it being said we are forced into the light, or dragged against our will.
It seems some do believe that, though. They are a puppet choosing themselves
always according to them, and yet that means neither are they saved.