1500 pastors leaving ministry a month....

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Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
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0
#1
There are tons of web sites bemoaning the exodus of men from the exalted position of 'pastor'. Many of them are begging these men not to give up and are providing support programs for them in order to keep them in this unbiblical upper salaried position.
It appears that it has not entered their heads even once the possibility that maybe God is trying to say something.
That He may even be pulling all the props out from under these men. That maybe many of these men have finally smelled the Folgers and are waking up to the lie of their spot lighted rank.
That maybe God has actually opened their eyes to the scriptures on this matter. That their is not a shred of evidence in the NT that backs this lofty, lording over the folks construct in the first place but actually there is tons of scripture that renounces it.
That maybe just maybe God is doing what He said He'd do. He'd send a great shaking in the land and all that is NOT of Him will crumble to the ground. As He razed the temple (church building) to the ground in 70ad, He's repeating the shaking today in order to wake up a sleepy ekklesia, self satisfied and fat singing in chorus 'we have need of nothing' and yet they are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked. Having a name that they are alive and yet they are dead.
This exalted, one man in control deal has been one of the biggest destructions of the body of Christ, along with robbing the poor with the devilish tithe.

What will it take to wake up the delusional 'church' caked with false teaching, traditions of men, greed and arrogance?
These web sites speak loud and clear. Burn out among the exalted ones with titles and tithe pulling of which neither is sanctioned by His word nor the clerical position which is defined by the Deeds of the Nicolaitans which Jesus hates. That's right. Your Jesus hates the clerical positions. So do you think He would not bring it down in this shaking? A system that has kept Him from His rightful position as Head? A whole lotta shaking going on and it must begin with the house(the ekklesia) of God.
One more thing. Have you ever stopped to reason why is all the burn out going on if this self exalted position is really of God? It would not be rampant if this false upper position was His idea. I wonder who's idea it really was. Read: Isaiah 14 for a clue where this 'exalting one self' idea came from. Who exalted himself above the congregation here? I'll give you 3guesses. His evil spirit lives on through men.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#2
Why are so bitter?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#3
Apparently in your world it's going to take someone like you who has a better bead on the shortcomings of the church and its attendees. I hope you don't get a brain bleed from banging your head against your brick wall.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
0
#4
I'm not bitter. Used to be, but not anymore. The truth has set me free. I'm excited that God is working to bring us back to His plan. I'm thrilled. I'm so sorry that you didn't get the heavenly memo. But you still may. Give up your pride and smart mouths. That would be a start.
 
P

Powemm

Guest
#5
God told us to have no idols before Him .. our first commandment from Him is as it is written " Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy strength".. however we are no longer under the law... we love Him, because He first loved us... we all have a direct path to Him , Christ is our High priest. He knows how to do this thing better than any of us :)
revelation 21:23
revelation 21:24
revelation 22:5
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#6
God gifts pastors to the church. Eph 4:11

We are warned of Jannes and Jambres who withstood Moses. 2 Tim 3:8

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
S

StoneThrower

Guest
#7
Wow and ZA, woza

There are tons of web sites bemoaning the exodus of men from the exalted position of 'pastor'. Many of them are begging these men not to give up and are providing support programs for them in order to keep them in this unbiblecal upper salaried position.
Are you smoking crack?
Upper salaried position when the national average for a pastor, with a masters degree is 45,000.00? You try supporting a family on that!


Un-Biblical position, have you ever read the Bible? Or is this some kind of weird way of distinguishing between a pastor and a shepherd? Those that are making money off the gospel aren't leaving, but are raking it in.
The men that are weary, some of them may not be truly called, but many just get tired of this kind of abuse from obstinate, hard hearted people that have no desire to turn from sin and mature.

Not all churches govern the same way, we have a plurality of elders three teaching/preaching pastors one paid two not. Our paid pastor is the greater among equals, but has no more say than the other two.

I am not getting you brother, sounds like you have an Axe to grind.

Pastors take a lot of abuse from those inside the doors, more so than from outside, as do their wives and sometimes their children. Working long hours, far exceeding forty hours a week.

I work 40 hours at my day time gig, then spend at least 20 hours a week doing stuff for the church on top.
A lot of sacrifice is given trying to bring everyman mature to Christ. Counseling, elders meetings, preparing sermons and Sunday school lessons. Not to mention spending time helping those in the church and spending time with them.

Perhaps you ought to walk in someones shoes before criticizing? More importantly sounds like you may need to repent of a sin you have been harboring against someone!
 
U

Ukorin

Guest
#8
The definition of 'pastor' is the issue. It was never meant to be a solitary role, nor one done from a pulpit. Shepards don't preach at the sheep.

I support the multi-elder led congregation format, and the home church format.

As long as the deacons are actively serving the congregation, a single elder(modern pastor) is a fine format.

Many congregations are led by dictator-like "pastors", who control most every aspect of the congregation. This is not Biblical. It also forces the congregation to become 'respecters of persons' and often making such respect expected or even mandatory.
 
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Powemm

Guest
#9
amen to that notuptome! we have many gifts given to us by god... Words, pastors, teachers, etc.... I've found if I'm busy counting, I cant be busy complaining, and I was pretty bad in that department...
I also took a good look finally at how I was treating them.. found I was looking at everyone else and how they were doing.. I was burning in my own excrement... gross I know.. but its the truth, I was..
found when I started looking at what I was doing instead of what everyone else was doing.. I had a big mess of my own to clean up before god.... some apologizing for my treatment of them, and changing my ways towards them... now days.. I treat them as I would want someone to treat me.. kindly and peaceably. as god has been towards me and in my way toward him.
 
F

Fishbait

Guest
#10
I'm not bitter. Used to be, but not anymore. The truth has set me free. I'm excited that God is working to bring us back to His plan. I'm thrilled. I'm so sorry that you didn't get the heavenly memo. But you still may. Give up your pride and smart mouths. That would be a start.
Many churches and 'pastors' preach, "Don't make us holler don't make us shout just turm dem pockets inside out. Reach in dem jeans and pull out dem greens!"
 
Jul 27, 2011
1,622
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#11
title of thread(1500 pastors leaving ministry a month). Then i see stonethrower, get on op about downing pastors, when i didn't se that happen, i seen op saying pastors are opening eyes to truth and leaving false doctrine behind. Then i see op say in a few post later i see ukorin say(The definintion of pastor is the issue) wow some of these threads get turned upside down quick.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
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#12
So, these "salaried" pastors aren't in God's will because they're making too much money? Gee, I didn't know I was sinning at my last pastorate making $200.00 a month (yes, a month) for 7 years while working another part-time job!

Stereotyping is a true sin, for it is unfair & unrighteous judgement.

Are there pastors burning out? Yep. Are some making too much money? Yep again. But your problem Op is you're judging the wrong group. Those leaving are the ones doing all the work & making the least money. Why would a rich pastor leave his gold mine? His glory? His reputation?

You're also wrong about true servants don't get burnout..... they're the ones that get it the most. Putting up with lukewarm & near-apostate christians is real work. Listening to the crying & bellyaching wears a man down. It's quite obvious you've never worn those shoes before.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,371
2,448
113
#13
I honestly don't care if a pastor stays or leaves... I assume God has things under control.

But I am curious about this.
First of all, is this actually DOCUMENTED that 1500 pastors are quitting each month?
Just curious.
Is this actually documented, and verifiable?
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,059
1,496
113
#14
My opinion.

There are three reasons that pastors are leaving the ministry.

The ministry is not what they expected it to be. They expected to sit back and let God do the work. They found out that God works through the pastor's work.

They are not prepared for the Job. They leave Bible College with the knowledge, but have no work experience. When they get to their first job, the only people that they have preached to are well educated Bible College students. The only counseling that they have done is in a classroom. The only people they have led is a prayer group. There are so many other things here.

They can not support their families. Bi-vocational pastors usually spend more on ministry than they are paid. I hear this in almost every case.

I counsel young men who feel called into the ministry to remember one thing. If He is calling you to do anything, he provides the resources. He will provide you the education that you need. He will provide the opportunities for work experience to prepare you. If he is calling you, you will not have to borrow the money to do it.

I counsel churches to provide opportunities for young men entering the ministry to grow his skills.

The single most important thing that anyone entering the ministry to do, is to let God work through your work.

Remember this. A wise Deacon once told me that when everything seems to be running like a clock, look around for Satan.

If you are a minister or a young person just entering the ministry, and you are thinking about giving up, find an old senior pastor and set down and discuss your problems now. Don't wait.
 
S

StoneThrower

Guest
#15
title of thread(1500 pastors leaving ministry a month). Then i see stonethrower, get on op about downing pastors, when i didn't se that happen, i seen op saying pastors are opening eyes to truth and leaving false doctrine behind. Then i see op say in a few post later i see ukorin say(The definintion of pastor is the issue) wow some of these threads get turned upside down quick.
Was I out of line? I just went and reread this again and its seems the OP didnt approve of the office of overseer, nor had any respect for a man called by God to be responsible for the sheep that God has placed under their care.
 
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
45
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#16
If they are leaving then I doubt they were pastors to even begin with. Thus perhaps indeed this is a good thing as God cleans out the churches that have become dens of thieves.

I am curious if this might be because of the fact that so many of these pastors today are forced to go to colleges that basically try to contort the Bible. The position of pastor is not unbiblical, but maybe it is the modern process that is unbiblical.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
765
113
39
Australia
#17
I honestly don't care if a pastor stays or leaves... I assume God has things under control.

But I am curious about this.
First of all, is this actually DOCUMENTED that 1500 pastors are quitting each month?
Just curious.
Is this actually documented, and verifiable?
Nah probably not. In order for that to happen all the quitters would have to register or submit themselves as quitting into some database and then someone would have to analyse and interpret that data to find that figure... Nothing to see here.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
0
#18
Who said all the elders are equal but the single salaried pastor is greater among equals. Tell me your not serious. He's self exalted first. Jesus said the exalted will be humbled. Oh I get it now. Everyone is special but the 'pastor' is more special than everyone.
Someone asked me if I ever read the bible. Yup. I have.
Lets see now have YOU ever read the bible? Jesus told His own that the Gentiles have their exalted leaders that lord it over them but that 'it shall not be so among you'.

Have you you ever read the bible? 1Peter5 we are not to lord it over His flock. Nor are we to charge salaries if we feed the flock.
Have you ever read the bible? Matt. 23 we are not to put religious, honorific titles in front of our names. That is arrogance and it places us above our fellows.

Have you ever read the bible? Paul, as an apostle, had a right to support, but he refused it setting an example. Apostles/missionaries were supported as well as the poor, not the local body of elders.
Have you ever read the bible? In fact, in Acts 20 the leaders of Ephesus were commanded to work secular jobs.

In the verse you draw like a gun, the Greek time, is translated honor meaning honor, respect. The word for wages, opsonion meaning compensation, salary, wages is not used. Why? Because it's not money.

Humility is the order and fragrance of the true servant. Jesus washed feet. We kiss the 'pastors' ring. Wake me up when you get there.
Again I submit. God is sending a wind to shake everything loose that is not of Him. The way up is down. Not the other way around.
 
S

StoneThrower

Guest
#19
Who said all the elders are equal but the single salaried pastor is greater among equals. Tell me your not serious. He's self exalted first. Jesus said the exalted will be humbled. Oh I get it now. Everyone is special but the 'pastor' is more special than everyone.
Someone asked me if I ever read the bible. Yup. I have.
Lets see now have YOU ever read the bible? Jesus told His own that the Gentiles have their exalted leaders that lord it over them but that 'it shall not be so among you'.

Have you you ever read the bible? 1Peter5 we are not to lord it over His flock. Nor are we to charge salaries if we feed the flock.
Have you ever read the bible? Matt. 23 we are not to put religious, honorific titles in front of our names. That is arrogance and it places us above our fellows.

Have you ever read the bible? Paul, as an apostle, had a right to support, but he refused it setting an example. Apostles/missionaries were supported as well as the poor, not the local body of elders.
Have you ever read the bible? In fact, in Acts 20 the leaders of Ephesus were commanded to work secular jobs.

In the verse you draw like a gun, the Greek time, is translated honor meaning honor, respect. The word for wages, opsonion meaning compensation, salary, wages is not used. Why? Because it's not money.

Humility is the order and fragrance of the true servant. Jesus washed feet. We kiss the 'pastors' ring. Wake me up when you get there.
Again I submit. God is sending a wind to shake everything loose that is not of Him. The way up is down. Not the other way around.
I misspoke its called the "first-among-equals
"Although no one elder has greater formal authority than any of the others, certain elders will emerge as natural leaders in particular areas and thus provide helpful leadership that the other elders will generally respect." J Piper
If you want to learn more about Biblical leader ship read Alexander Strauch Biblical Eldership: An Urgent Call to Restore Biblical Church Leadership
Biblical Eldership: An Urgent Call to Restore Biblical Church Leadership: Alexander Strauch, Stephen Sorenson, Amanda Sorenson: 9780936083117: Amazon.com: Books

As to the other comments, who does that? Your arguing something thats not an issue maybe it is in the RCC though.
 
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S

StoneThrower

Guest
#20
Who said all the elders are equal but the single salaried pastor is greater among equals. Tell me your not serious. He's self exalted first. Jesus said the exalted will be humbled. Oh I get it now. Everyone is special but the 'pastor' is more special than everyone.
Someone asked me if I ever read the bible. Yup. I have.
Lets see now have YOU ever read the bible? Jesus told His own that the Gentiles have their exalted leaders that lord it over them but that 'it shall not be so among you'.

Have you you ever read the bible? 1Peter5 we are not to lord it over His flock. Nor are we to charge salaries if we feed the flock.
Have you ever read the bible? Matt. 23 we are not to put religious, honorific titles in front of our names. That is arrogance and it places us above our fellows.

Have you ever read the bible? Paul, as an apostle, had a right to support, but he refused it setting an example. Apostles/missionaries were supported as well as the poor, not the local body of elders.
Have you ever read the bible? In fact, in Acts 20 the leaders of Ephesus were commanded to work secular jobs.

In the verse you draw like a gun, the Greek time, is translated honor meaning honor, respect. The word for wages, opsonion meaning compensation, salary, wages is not used. Why? Because it's not money.

Humility is the order and fragrance of the true servant. Jesus washed feet. We kiss the 'pastors' ring. Wake me up when you get there.
Again I submit. God is sending a wind to shake everything loose that is not of Him. The way up is down. Not the other way around.
Now I see, your not talking about a pastor, but are talking about a priest even though they are starting to call themselves pastors. No wonder your upset.
Visit a real church sometime its vastly differnt.