The Rapture

[KJV1611]

I love how God wrote the bible, it's written so perfectly it's unbelieveable. It's written to decieve and it's written to reveal. God gives us exactly what we'e looking, if grace - grace, works - works, antichrist - antichrist or Christ - Christ.... The book is miraculous, it truly is "a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart"!

Here's the real kicker on this thread to me... You guys take a GLORIOUS prophecy of Jesus CONFIRMING the promises God made to Abraham by conquering sin, doing away with the law and bringing in everlasting righteousness and GIVE THAT GLORY TO THE ANITCHRIST. A little advice people... "in the volume of the book, it is written of me". The book is written about Jesus, not the antichrist.

You guys take simple words like "confirm" in which we all know what it means UNTIL it comes to Daniel 9:27... then it becomes MAKES. Listen, If you have to twist simple words like that to make a verse fit your doctrine.... guess what your doctrine is not right.

That's my rant for the morning.

 

[Ahwatukee]

You think the devil is bound/restrained right now? Not deceiving the nations? Man that's quite some deception going on. I dunno what type of fancy neighborhood you living at in the UK but one doesn't have to be a genius to notice that THE NATIONS ARE DECEIVED. Mass deception, even within the church. There are more than a billion Hindu's and Muslims in the world and you telling me Satan ain't deceiving the nations? Get real.

Valiant, being a preterist, has to say that we are not being deceived in order to support his belief that we are currently living during the thousand years, which according to him isn't really a thousand years, but an unknown amount of time, and that Christ is ruling through the church, which isn't really ruling anything. Christ's rule to preterists could be likened to a child's tea party, no real guests, no real tea and no real pastries. Just spiritual, pretend, fluff.

The truth of the matter however is that, Satan won't be thrown into the Abyss until Christ returns to the earth to end the age. And not the end of the age for Israel, but for the entire planet, where Christ actually and literally returns to the earth, in the clouds, on a white horse (Matt.24:30-31, Rev.19:11-21) and touches down on the mount of Olives, splitting it in two from north to south (Zech. 14:4) and when He comes from Edom, from Bozrah with His garments stained crimson (Isa.63:1).

Those scriptures demonstrate a physical, literal, return to the earth and not the child's tea party version that these guy's pedal.

Satan is alive and well on planet earth.

 

[PlainWord]

Revelation is about the end of the age for all the nations.

The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which make up the majority of Revelation, affects the entire earth.

Negative!!

In Revelation (as in a lot of OT prophesy),

EARTH = ISRAEL
SEA = SURROUNDING GENTILE NATIONS

Of course you would say that, because it is detrimental to your position, therefore you spiritualize it. Ruling with a rod of iron, means that Jesus will rule with a firm hand, shepherding the nations.

The ruling is done spiritually but has real life implications.

The words "the time is near, I will come quickly, must soon take place" are all statements of imminency, having no set date or time

What is it you said? "Of course you would say that, because it is detrimental to your position, therefore you spiritualize it."

Regarding "the day of the Lord," the OT prophets used the same words that the apostles used for the same event, which is yet to take place.

The "Day of the Lord" is used at least 4 times in the OT to discuss divine judgment events; Egypt, Babylon, Edom and finally Israel/Jerusalem. They DO NOT all discuss a singular end-of-world judgment event. This is another HUGE error you make. Google it for yourself and do a little homework.

All that you to do with these teachings, is to continue to distort the meaning of the word of God with your spiritualization

You spiritualize far more than I do. Quick, come soon, end is near, etc doesn't mean what it says and instead means anything???? Not on my planet. It has been as long from Christ to now as it was from Abraham to Christ. It would be like God telling Abraham that the Messiah was coming quickly.

 

[PlainWord]

I love how God wrote the bible, it's written so perfectly it's unbelieveable. It's written to decieve and it's written to reveal. God gives us exactly what we'e looking, if grace - grace, works - works, antichrist - antichrist or Christ - Christ.... The book is miraculous, it truly is "a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart"!

Here's the real kicker on this thread to me... You guys take a GLORIOUS prophecy of Jesus CONFIRMING the promises God made to Abraham by conquering sin, doing away with the law and bringing in everlasting righteousness and GIVE THAT GLORY TO THE ANITCHRIST. A little advice people... "in the volume of the book, it is written of me". The book is written about Jesus, not the antichrist.

You guys take simple words like "confirm" in which we all know what it means UNTIL it comes to Daniel 9:27... then it becomes MAKES. Listen, If you have to twist simple words like that to make a verse fit your doctrine.... guess what your doctrine is not right.

That's my rant for the morning.

And it was a good rant, except not sure I agree the Bible was written to deceive. I think it just confuses some.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I love how God wrote the bible, it's written so perfectly it's unbelieveable. It's written to decieve and it's written to reveal. God gives us exactly what we'e looking, if grace - grace, works - works, antichrist - antichrist or Christ - Christ.... The book is miraculous, it truly is "a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart"!

Here's the real kicker on this thread to me... You guys take a GLORIOUS prophecy of Jesus CONFIRMING the promises God made to Abraham by conquering sin, doing away with the law and bringing in everlasting righteousness and GIVE THAT GLORY TO THE ANITCHRIST. A little advice people... "in the volume of the book, it is written of me". The book is written about Jesus, not the antichrist.

You guys take simple words like "confirm" in which we all know what it means UNTIL it comes to Daniel 9:27... then it becomes MAKES. Listen, If you have to twist simple words like that to make a verse fit your doctrine.... guess what your doctrine is not right.

That's my rant for the morning.

Morning KJV,

We haven't given any glory to the antichrist, we have simply revealed the truth about the order of events that will take place. The fact is that, Jesus cannot be the "He" in Dan.9:27 because it would have Him as the one setting up the abomination and that just cannot be.

There is only one seven year period left out of the seventy sevens and the antichirst is the one who is going to initiate that in fulfillment of that last seven that was decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem. Everything that will be going on during that last seven years, including all that the antichrist/beast does is according to God's design. If you don't think that God can use His enemies to fulfill his will, think back on Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon and how God used pagan's who worshiped other god's to punish his people Israel. During the last 3 1/2 years, God is also going to put it into the hearts of the beast and the ten kings to hate the woman, that idolatrous city that sits on seven hills and destroy her with fire.

Regarding Israel and the seventy sevens, you have not understood the underlying principal, that after the Messiah was cut off at the end of sixty nine sevens, God paused that last seven years and began to build the Church, which is still in progress. Once it has been completed, the Lord will descend and gather the church in fulfillment of John 14:1-3, 1 Thes.4:13-18. Following that, God will pick up right where He left off with Israel in fulfillment of that last seven years leading up to the Lord's return to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.

 

[KJV1611]

Morning KJV,

We haven't given any glory to the antichrist, we have simply revealed the truth about the order of events that will take place. The fact is that, Jesus cannot be the "He" in Dan.9:27 because it would have Him as the one setting up the abomination and that just cannot be.

There is only one seven year period left out of the seventy sevens and the antichirst is the one who is going to initiate that in fulfillment of that last seven that was decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem. Everything that will be going on during that last seven years, including all that the antichrist/beast does is according to God's design. If you don't think that God can use His enemies to fulfill his will, think back on Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon and how God used pagan's who worshiped other god's to punish his people Israel. During the last 3 1/2 years, God is also going to put it into the hearts of the beast and the ten kings to hate the woman, that idolatrous city that sits on seven hills and destroy her with fire.

Regarding Israel and the seventy sevens, you have not understood the underlying principal, that after the Messiah was cut off at the end of sixty nine sevens, God paused that last seven years and began to build the Church, which is still in progress. Once it has been completed, the Lord will descend and gather the church in fulfillment of John 14:1-3, 1 Thes.4:13-18. Following that, God will pick up right where He left off with Israel in fulfillment of that last seven years leading up to the Lord's return to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.

There's nothing about setting up an abomination in the KJV.

 

[valiant]

You think the devil is bound/restrained right now? Not deceiving the nations? Man thats quite some deception going on. I dunno what type of fancy neighborhood you living at in the UK but one doesn't have to be a genius to notice that THE NATIONS ARE DECEIVED. Mass deception, even within the church. There are more than a billion hindus and mooslems in the world and you telling me satan aint deceiving the nations? Get real.

If Satan was free to do as he wished things would be far different, and the world in a far worse state. Ii is because he is restrained that the Gospel has reached round the world. I suggest you get real.

 

[PlainWord]

The verb gabar in the transitive means to make strong, to make firm, to confirm.

A covenant is an agreement or contract.

What it really means is:

"to enforce the terms stipulated in the contract"

Like if you had a debt to me - "After 28 days, if you have not paid the initial outlay on the loan, with interest, I have the power to come to your house, and remove goods"

So I would come and enforce the terms of the contract.

So it clearly means that he will enforce (the terms of) the Mosaic Covenant.

That is why everything is in sevens, because those are the terms of the Mosaic Contract - Leviticus 26:18, 21, 24, 28

That is an excellent way of putting it!!! Deu 28 is where the plagues that would befall Israel were first mentioned if they did not keep up their end of the covenant contract. Revelation simply repeats those plagues. But, they are foretold here in Deu 28 first:

[SUP]45 [/SUP]“Moreover all these curses shall come upon you and pursue and overtake you, until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which He commanded you. [SUP]46 [/SUP]And they shall be upon you for a sign and a wonder, and on your descendants forever.

Ironically, many of the Jews of 70 AD knew exactly what was happening to them and why and tried to get their people to understand and turn them to righteousness, but sadly in vain.

 

[PlainWord]

AHW, VCO, Popeye, Issachar, etc. Read Deu 28:25-68 if you want to see what the consequences were for Israel not keeping up their end of the covenant. Every last prediction was fulfilled by the Romans. YES, including the "eagles."

 

[valiant]

Morning KJV,

We haven't given any glory to the antichrist, we have simply revealed the truth about the order of events that will take place. The fact is that, Jesus cannot be the "He" in Dan.9:27 because it would have Him as the one setting up the abomination and that just cannot be.

The He of Daniel 9.27 is not said to set up the abomination. Yours is a poor translation. It is impersonal.

There is only one seven year period left out of the seventy sevens,

where does it say that a seven is seven years? That is pure surmise.

and the antichirst is the one who is going to initiate that in fulfillment of that last seven that was decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem.

'the prince that is coming' is described as the prince who has already come. It was because He was cut off that His people are mentioned. Jerusalem was destroyed by the Jews internecine fighting.,

 

[Ahwatukee]

They DO NOT all discuss a singular end-of-world judgment event. This is another HUGE error you make. Google it for yourself and do a little homework.

Now that is funny! To find out Biblical truths, you're telling us to Google it? Whose making a huge error? That is quite the advise that you're giving! You don't you use Google or YouTube or internet sites to expound on the word of God. I guess we can see why you believe as you do with all of those false teachings out on the internet.

The end of the age, will be the dismantling of all human government in preparation for Christ's literal, thousand year reign, just as it states in scripture, which you ignore.

"the day of the Lord," also called "the hour of trial" is a specific, singular, unprecedented time of God's coming wrath, which will take place during that last seven years via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. Because you have spiritualized these events of God's wrath, you have no idea of what is coming upon this earth.

 

[KJV1611]

Now that is funny! To find out Biblical truths, you're telling us to Google it? Whose making a huge error? That is quite the advise that you're giving! You don't you use Google or YouTube or internet sites to expound on the word of God. I guess we can see why you believe as you do with all of those false teachings out on the internet.

The end of the age, will be the dismantling of all human government in preparation for Christ's literal, thousand year reign, just as it states in scripture, which you ignore.

"the day of the Lord," also called "the hour of trial" is a specific, singular, unprecedented time of God's coming wrath, which will take place during that last seven years via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. Because you have spiritualized these events of God's wrath, you have no idea of what is coming upon this earth.

What are you going to think when Christ returns and starts the milennial reign and there was no 7 year tribulation, no rebuilt temple and no antichrist? You're going to think Christ is the antichrist getting ready to start the 7 year tribulation... and your teaching other to do the same.

 

[MattforJesus]

Satan is deceiving the nations,and that is why there is wars,and people fighting with each other,and false interpretations of the Bible.

But Satan is on a leash,and can only do so much,for God is still in control,and no nation or kingdom can rule unless God allows it,who gives the kingdom to who He wants.

Some people think that Satan was bound,and not of the future,but why would it only be for 1000 years,and if it was only for that,the other 1000 years would be chaos big time.

Like they say Jesus millennial reign is spiritual for 1000 years,but why is it only for 1000 years,when Jesus has been ruling ever since He ascended to heaven,which He said all power is given Me in heaven,and earth,and He shall rule with an iron rod,but there has been problems,and fighting on earth,ever since Jesus resurrected.

Satan is not restrained in the bottomless pit,and he does deceive the nations,but he is restrained from being able to possess a man,and deceive the world,which must happen at some time,for God will give the world 7 years to have their way,and cause all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,so He can end this sin business on earth,and that is when Satan will not be restrained,and that wicked shall be revealed,as God allows the man of sin to deceive all people who do not love Him,which the man of sin is mighty,but not by his own power,but by the power of Satan.

For the mystery of iniquity does already work,but God allows it to go on until the man of sin deceives the world,and then the punishment will come,for when the transgressors come to the full,then a king of fierce countenance,and understaning dark sentences shall stand up,who will be mighty,but not by his own power,and will cause witchcraft to prosper,and by peace shall destroy many.

And when God defeats the world,and punishes them for their sins and iniquities against Him,then Satan will be bound,and put in the bottomless pit,and not deceive the nations anymore,and then the millennial reign on earth will begin,and Jesus fulfills the King role of ruling on earth,and fulfilling the law,and then Satan is loosed from the bottomless pit,and stirs up the people that Jesus and the saints rule over,and they go against the saints,and God rains fire on them,and devours them,for they still have punishment coming,but God postponed it until the end of the millennial reign of Christ.

 

[J7]

Regarding Israel and the seventy sevens, you have not understood the underlying principal, that after the Messiah was cut off at the end of sixty nine sevens, God paused that last seven years and began to build the Church, which is still in progress. Once it has been completed, the Lord will descend and gather the church in fulfillment of John 14:1-3, 1 Thes.4:13-18. Following that, God will pick up right where He left off with Israel in fulfillment of that last seven years leading up to the Lord's return to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.

@Ahwatukee
What did Jesus have in the 69th week that he did not have after?

26 [FONT=&quot]After the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing,[/FONT]

 

[Ahwatukee]

The He of Daniel 9.27 is not said to set up the abomination. Yours is a poor translation. It is impersonal.

Oh contrare monfrare! Daniel 12:11 confirms that Dan.9:27 is stating that the abomination will be set up:

"From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days."

Daniel 12:11 clarifies Dan.9:27 regarding the "overspreading of abominations" as being the abomination being set up. In quoting Dan.9:27, Jesus in Matt.24:15 also clarifies that the abomination will be set up:

"So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[SUP]a[/SUP] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

where does it say that a seven is seven years? That is pure surmise.

It's called studying. We know that the seven weeks is referring to seven sets of seven, which is defined as a Heptad. Since we have the Messiah cut off/crucified at the end of sixty nine sevens, all we have to do is check to see what fits, whether it is seven weeks or seven weeks of years.

We have 7 of the seven year periods described as the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. According to any Bible, scholars have that decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem at 446 BC when king Artaxeres gave Nehemiah letters (decrees) to pass through the area of the Trans-Euphrates and letters to cut wood from the kings forest in order to rebuild Jerusalem. You can read all about the rebuilding in Nehemiah.

That takes care of 7 of the seven year periods. Next we have the Messiah being cut off/crucified at the end of 69 sevens.

7 x seven years = 49 years

62 x seven years = 434 years

So, we have Christ crucified at the end of 69 seven year periods or 483 years.

446 BC minus 483 yrs = 37 AD

37 AD, and taking into consideration the calendar changes, this puts us right in the ballpark of when the Messiah was crucified. Therefore, interpreting the weeks of seven as being weeks of years fits the prophecy to a T.

 

[PlainWord]

Now that is funny! To find out Biblical truths, you're telling us to Google it? Whose making a huge error? That is quite the advise that you're giving! You don't you use Google or YouTube or internet sites to expound on the word of God. I guess we can see why you believe as you do with all of those false teachings out on the internet.

The end of the age, will be the dismantling of all human government in preparation for Christ's literal, thousand year reign, just as it states in scripture, which you ignore.

"the day of the Lord," also called "the hour of trial" is a specific, singular, unprecedented time of God's coming wrath, which will take place during that last seven years via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. Because you have spiritualized these events of God's wrath, you have no idea of what is coming upon this earth.

I'm talking about reading the Bible study of many of our faith regarding the "Day of the Lord" and the fact that many of our scholars agree with me. Silly!!

I am not spiritualizing the wrath. I'm telling you it already happened to Israel and that is what it ALL WAS ABOUT!!

 

[PlainWord]

Consider these verses:

• Isaiah 13:6
  Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
  
• Jeremiah 46:10
  For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.
• Joel 1:15
  Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.
• Amos 5:18
  Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
  

Therefore, primarily, the day of the Lord refers to the character of the times. The day of the Lord is the time when God moves on the scene in a powerful way to execute His wrath on the earth because of the iniquities of man. As such, the day of the Lord is not meant to be a synonym for any term specifically related to a time period like the tribulation or the kingdom. It is closest in meaning to the tribulation and the time of the tribulation is certainly the day of the Lord. However, it does not need to be restricted to the time of the tribulation. The day of the Lord deals with the way in which God is deals with world at certain times. It is more than just a specific time period.

As such, the day of the Lord can refer to times of judgment that are already history. The day of the Lord in Jeremiah 46:10 has fulfillment in the defeat of the Egyptians by the Babylonians. In direct context, Jeremiah 46:13states, "The word that the LORD spake to Jeremiah the prophet, how Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon should come and smite the land of Egypt." This is further demonstrated by the flow of the chapter.

Generally, the day of the Lord is the day when God no longer holds back His wrath but rather executes His vengeance on the wicked.

Now many scholars will point to a Day of the Lord as an end of the world event, however, they have overlooked the final judgment upon apostate Israel in the first century. This Day of the Lord is the final one mentioned. Does this mean there will not be a future "Day of the Lord?" Certainly not!! We just don't have a future one mentioned in the Bible.

 

[KJV1611]

7 year tribbers do you believe these verses are future?

Amos 9:10-11 KJV
All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.
[11] In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

 

[VCO]

The verb gabar in the transitive means to make strong, to make firm, to confirm.

A covenant is an agreement or contract.

What it really means is:

"to enforce the terms stipulated in the contract"

Like if you had a debt to me - "After 28 days, if you have not paid the initial outlay on the loan, with interest, I have the power to come to your house, and remove goods"

So I would come and enforce the terms of the contract.

So it clearly means that he will enforce (the terms of) the Mosaic Covenant.

That is why everything is in sevens, because those are the terms of the Mosaic Contract - Leviticus 26:18, 21, 24, 28

You really NEED to use the Reply With Quote button EVERY TIME. I have NO idea who you are responding to, NOR do I have any idea which verse you referencing.

 

[J7]

Gabar appears in Daniel 9:27

"He will confirm a covenant"

Gabar is the Hebrew translated as confirm.

The comment goes to everyone interested in Gabar, and everyone discussing the covenant. Unfortunately with so many disparate voices, and readers, I cannot always say who the direct target of a comment is, especially if there is no direct target as such.