Page 32 of 41 FirstFirst ... 223031323334 ... LastLast
Results 621 to 640 of 804
Like Tree1164Likes

Bible Discussion Forum

Ask (or answer) Bible questions here. Join or start a Bible discussion now!

Thread: Lets Talk Free Choice

  1. #621
    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 28th, 2016
    Age
    46
    Posts
    810
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    Quote "And the bible avers that NONE seek Him."

    Right,in the flesh we dont seek Him.But we can,He tells us we can. I have proven that with Scripture.


    Quote "Yet many died never knowing Jesus existed. How can they call upon Him in whom they have not heard? Answer is they can't.

    Peter -
    "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

    If this is a true statement then all have the opportunity to come to Him. No one will die lost in sin because they did not get to hear the Gospel.That would make God unjust,which He is not.He says all creation points to Him.We will not die in sin without a chance to know God.


    Quote "
    This is mysticism and anti-Sola Scriptura. The word of God is the only thing to make one wise concerning salvation."

    No! It is not mysticism and I do not believe in that! God can and has used dreams within the Bible,not outside. It is not true that people will die in sin because they did not have a Bible in hand or heard the Gospel by mouth. Again that would make God cruel and unjust. How could I be blamed for not accepting God if I lived in the darkest part of the world and never physically heard the Gospel or held a Bible!? No,that is false.



    Quote "
    This is mysticism, anti-Sola Scriptura and anti-missionial. If all they need is this, there's no need to send missionaries."


    They had visions of Jesus and the missionary came to tell them more about the truth. And no,its not anti-anything. You cant say people are pre-elected on the one hand and man has nothing to do with salvation, and then turn around and say they'll die in sin if man doesn't preach the Gospel and intervene. If people are pre-elected they dont need to hear the Gospel,they're already on their way.


    Quote "Did the Spirit knock you off your ride? Did Jesus speak verbally to you? Of course not. You are using Paul's experience and conflating it with others. His was a rare occurrence and not to be as a way others have been saved."

    But He could speak to me verbally. Rare doesn't mean never.God will make Himself known to the sinner even if He has to knock us off our ride!


    Hebrews says God spoke though the prophets I dont see your point. And again you're talking out both sides of your mouth.If people go to hell for being sinners they dont go because they have not heard.Its one or the other,not both. God has made Himself known and we can be saved. And true Jews are Jews,not the church. Read Romans 11.









    I have read Romans 11 many times. I did a 6-7 month study of that great book.

    What I see from you is anti-Sola Scriptura, anti-Missional, and pure mysticism. And hyper-dispensationalism.

    Brother preacher4truth(on the left and apparently my hero, too!!!) and me, his trusty sidekick.

  2. #622
    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 28th, 2016
    Age
    46
    Posts
    810
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    Quote "Ppl are the only ones barring themselves."


    Thats not what Calvin says,I posted his quote he said God bars the way to some.


    Quote "
    Look at it through the lens of Ezekiel 37. He comes upon a valley full of very dry bones. Left to themselves, they had no hope of ever living again. God tells Ezekiel to prophesy and the earth quakes and bone comes to its bone and then sinew and then flesh. Yet, they lack one thing, breath, which is symbolic of the Spirit. He then prophesies again and the wind blows upon them and they stand on their feet, a great army.

    Now, what will did they exercise for all this to take place to them? None. That's how God works. If Ezekiel had taken this upon himself without God's intervening, nothing would have happened to them.

    When we preach, the lost we preach to, spiritual wise, they are in the same boat as those dry bones. However, when God moves through our gospel preaching, these dead sinners come to life and believe.

    Ezk. is talking about the Jews and Israel here. The bones live again,not talking about sinners. That being said I agree the Holy Spirit draws and when man heeds the call he comes spiritually alive moving from living in the flesh to living in the spirit.
    More hyper-dispensational error.

    Brother preacher4truth(on the left and apparently my hero, too!!!) and me, his trusty sidekick.

  3. #623
    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 28th, 2016
    Age
    46
    Posts
    810
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    No,non reformed says whosoever will may come,as the Bibles says,and the Holy Spirit draws man,as the Bible says and man has faith to believe. All right there in the Word.
    We too say whosoever believes will be saved. But not all men have faith to believe.[2 Thess. 3:2]

    We are justified by faith.[Romans 5:1] If everybody has faith, everybody is saved, seeing ppl are justified by faith.
    Angela53510 and ForthAngel like this.

    Brother preacher4truth(on the left and apparently my hero, too!!!) and me, his trusty sidekick.

  4. #624
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 28th, 2016
    Age
    52
    Posts
    1,345
    Rep Power
    31

    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    I have read Romans 11 many times. I did a 6-7 month study of that great book.

    What I see from you is anti-Sola Scriptura, anti-Missional, and pure mysticism. And hyper-dispensationalism.
    Yep. Mixed in with God isn't fair, or just if this is true with a huge dollop of Romans 9:20 thrown in.

    Plenty of Scripture has been given, and there is a time to either accept it, or, just don't. God chooses, not man, it is plainly all over Scripture and frankly people just do not like that God is in control. Then to top it off God is called names because of these truths because He just isn't deemed "fair" for not falling under finite mans rules. That's the problem, man is exalted, God must be domesticated.

    "I just don't like that Scripture! God isn't like what the Bible says! I determine what He is like because I know what is fair and what is just! I make the rules here!"

    Un. Real.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

  5. #625
    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 28th, 2016
    Age
    46
    Posts
    810
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    Im with you totally. I keep throwing out the Holy Spirits drawing and keep getting ignored.Once again you've arrived at the heart of the matter.
    When the Spirit draws, they come. The greek word for draw is 'helko' and it means to literally drag off. The same word, helko, is used in John 18:10 when Peter drew his sword and in John 21:11 when Peter drew the net to the shore. This drawing is literally dragging, not that He drags us kicking and screaming against our wills, but He effectually draws sinners to the Christ.
    ForthAngel and notmyown like this.

    Brother preacher4truth(on the left and apparently my hero, too!!!) and me, his trusty sidekick.

  6. #626
    Senior Member ForthAngel's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 31st, 2012
    Age
    33
    Posts
    1,965
    Rep Power
    33

    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    When the Spirit draws, they come. The greek word for draw is 'helko' and it means to literally drag off. The same word, helko, is used in John 18:10 when Peter drew his sword and in John 21:11 when Peter drew the net to the shore. This drawing is literally dragging, not that He drags us kicking and screaming against our wills, but He effectually draws sinners to the Christ.
    I actually kicked and screamed a bit at first.. My pride had to be broken.
    Look now to our adversaries (I mean the priesthood, at whose beck and pleasure others
    ply their enmity against us), and consider with me for a little by what zeal they are actuated.
    The true religion which is delivered in the Scriptures, and which all ought to hold, they
    readily permit both themselves and others to be ignorant of, to neglect and despise;

  7. #627
    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 28th, 2016
    Age
    46
    Posts
    810
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    kayla,
    Preacher4truth, forth and sovereigngrace have all stated that the Holy Spirit does not draw men, God does.
    This is a flat-out lie. Repent.

    Brother preacher4truth(on the left and apparently my hero, too!!!) and me, his trusty sidekick.

  8. #628
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 28th, 2016
    Age
    52
    Posts
    1,345
    Rep Power
    31

    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    They seem oblivious to the three fold ministry on the Holy Spirit in bringing men to Christ by conviction of sin, righteousness, and judgment.

    I would find great comfort in being shown where I'm wrong.
    Yes, you're wrong, and I'll show you, but you'll stick to your eisegesis instead of actual interpretive exegesis.

    Convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment isn't "drawing". Nothing in the text shows that drawing. You're adding that to the text after showing unfounded and unnecessary disdain for reformed believers. So, you're on an agenda and it has muddled your mind.

    So, please show me where the term drawing is in this text, I'll be waiting. Since you've been refuted, why not just, like a man, except that you've been refuted?

    The reformation is a religion not a theology.
    Wrong still, you just do not know what you're talking about.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

  9. #629
    Senior Member SovereignGrace's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 28th, 2016
    Age
    46
    Posts
    810
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Meggido View Post
    kayla,
    Preacher4truth, forth and sovereigngrace have all stated that the Holy Spirit does not draw men, God does.

    You are arguing a mute point if they do not believe the Holy Spirit draws men then stop feeding the beast.
    That is central to the Bible and as such for them to dismiss it outright means they are not following the way, the life and the truth, despite their double-minded tempter tantrum that they do.

    This has gone from your original mandate of wanting to learn to understand their "religion" to now giving a few in a certain group a voice to discount, marginalize, ridicule, rebuke, correct people at whim and without fear of reprisal which allows them to spread strife, division, discourse to any who disagrees with them.

    Playtime is over and we need to get back to work.

    The only exception to this is Lynn, who has been cordial and really helped and not been smug, arrogant, and demeaning in sharing her knowledge. Lynn is more closer to reformed Calvinist than 3 of those guys, who need to be left alone.
    Where have I been rude to ppl? I have been cordial. But your passive-aggressive behavior is duly noted. Insult and then attempt to castigate others for insulting others.

    Ignore for you.
    Last edited by SovereignGrace; 4 Days Ago at 08:04 PM.

    Brother preacher4truth(on the left and apparently my hero, too!!!) and me, his trusty sidekick.

  10. #630
    Senior Member ForthAngel's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 31st, 2012
    Age
    33
    Posts
    1,965
    Rep Power
    33

    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignGrace View Post
    This is a flat-out lie. Repent.
    To be fair, I'm always quoting John 6 and it specifically says the Father draws. On the other hand, the words "The Holy Spirit doesn't draw" has never left my lips (or fingertips). But when put up against a wall, I can't find a verse that says the Holy Spirit draws. It seems the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all work in unison and in a collective effort for the salvation of a man, each in their own way. They are getting the Holy Spirit draws all men from John 16. I could be wrong, but I don't see what they see in this passage:

    The Work of the Holy Spirit“I did not say these things to you from the beginning, because I was with you. 5 But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ 6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; 11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.


    12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

    There seems to be a distinction in what the Holy Spirit does here for the world and what He does for "you" (the believer). Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Edit: wording
    Last edited by ForthAngel; 4 Days Ago at 08:08 PM.
    Look now to our adversaries (I mean the priesthood, at whose beck and pleasure others
    ply their enmity against us), and consider with me for a little by what zeal they are actuated.
    The true religion which is delivered in the Scriptures, and which all ought to hold, they
    readily permit both themselves and others to be ignorant of, to neglect and despise;

  11. #631
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 28th, 2016
    Age
    52
    Posts
    1,345
    Rep Power
    31

    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by ForthAngel View Post
    To be fair, I'm always quoting John 6 and it specifically says the Father draws. On the other hand, the words "The Holy Spirit doesn't draw" has never left my lips (or fingertips). But when put up against a wall, I can't find a verse that says the Holy Spirit draws. It seems the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all work in unison and in a collective effort for the salvation of a man, each in their own way. They are getting the Holy Spirit draws all men from John 16. I could be wrong, but I don't see what they see in this passage:

    The Work of the Holy Spirit“I did not say these things to you from the beginning, because I was with you. 5 But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ 6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; 11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.


    12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

    There seems to be a distinction in what the Holy Spirit does here for the world and what it does for "you" (the believer). Correct me if I'm wrong.
    Yes, I see nothing in Scripture that speaks of the Holy Spirit "drawing" the lost to Christ. Conviction of sin, righteousness, and judgment, yes. Each person of the trinity has a complementary role. The Father and Son draw. The Spirit does His ministry. The Father and Son do theirs as well.

    That said, it is doubtful any will own this and accept this truth, but will instead go on with what they want to believe a text says when it is clear that it doesn't say this at all. So much for wanting to hold to sound doctrine, being "right" is more important even if Scripture doesn't support them.

    So, how will they then believe other Scriptures in what they plainly say when they take this one and add to it?
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

  12. #632
    Senior Member Grace777x70's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 22nd, 2015
    Age
    61
    Posts
    17,913
    Rep Power
    196

    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    I think God "predestined" us to have the free will of fighting amongst us about things that have no importance in the kingdom of God and to reveal that we are either living by His life in us or by our own religious beliefs.

    There is an alternative to all this. Let's preach and teach Christ Himself and His grace and love so that we can actually grow up in Him? We could actually encourage each other and learn from each other.

    Or we could continue to bite and devouring each other in the name of "rightly dividing the word of truth as we see it?"
    PennEd and followjesus like this.
    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

  13. #633
    Senior Member ForthAngel's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 31st, 2012
    Age
    33
    Posts
    1,965
    Rep Power
    33

    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    I think God "predestined" us to have the free will of fighting amongst us about things that have no importance in the kingdom of God and to reveal that we are either living by His life in us or by our own religious beliefs.

    There is an alternative to all this. Let's preach and teach Christ Himself and His grace and love so that we can actually grow up in Him? We could actually encourage each other and learn from each other.

    Or we could continue to bite and devouring each other in the name of "rightly dividing the word of truth as we see it?"
    And while we're at it, let's welcome all heretics and don't preach on sin and the importance of turning away from it, and how about how much money God is gonna give us and how healthy he is gonna make us.
    Look now to our adversaries (I mean the priesthood, at whose beck and pleasure others
    ply their enmity against us), and consider with me for a little by what zeal they are actuated.
    The true religion which is delivered in the Scriptures, and which all ought to hold, they
    readily permit both themselves and others to be ignorant of, to neglect and despise;

  14. #634
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 28th, 2016
    Age
    52
    Posts
    1,345
    Rep Power
    31

    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by ForthAngel View Post
    And while we're at it, let's welcome all heretics and don't preach on sin and the importance of turning away from it, and how about how much money God is gonna give us and how healthy he is gonna make us.
    He's totally against sound doctrine, and totally for false doctrine, anything goes. I'm always amazed at the wolves who are zipping themselves up in fleece so they can come to others to appear as sheep.

    Contorting the Word to come to "wolves conclusions" has a history stemming from the garden. You know, just throw a few verses together, out of context, and use it against what God really said. That's as old as the serpents garden tactics, and that is a fact.
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

  15. #635
    Senior Member Grace777x70's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 22nd, 2015
    Age
    61
    Posts
    17,913
    Rep Power
    196

    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Exhibit "A"...


    We could also preach Christ and what He has already done. All is well. We have a good, good Father!


    Last edited by Grace777x70; 4 Days Ago at 08:29 PM.
    PennEd likes this.
    The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

    holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

    of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

    know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

    scriptures were saying.


    The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

    people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.

  16. #636
    Senior Member followjesus's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 1st, 2016
    Age
    40
    Posts
    2,723
    Rep Power
    39

    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by preacher4truth View Post
    Yes, I see nothing in Scripture that speaks of the Holy Spirit "drawing" the lost to Christ. Conviction of sin, righteousness, and judgment, yes. Each person of the trinity has a complementary role. The Father and Son draw. The Spirit does His ministry. The Father and Son do theirs as well.

    That said, it is doubtful any will own this and accept this truth, but will instead go on with what they want to believe a text says when it is clear that it doesn't say this at all. So much for wanting to hold to sound doctrine, being "right" is more important even if Scripture doesn't support them.

    So, how will they then believe other Scriptures in what they plainly say when they take this one and add to it?

    1 john 5:5-8 "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

    6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by WATER and BLOOD. And it is THE SPIRIT THAT BEARETH WITNESS, because the Spirit is truth.

    7For there are three that BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN, the FATHER, the WORD, and the HOLY GHOST: and these three are one.

    8And there are three that BEAR WITNESS IN EARTH, the SPIRIT, and the WATER, and the BLOOD: and these three agree IN ONE. " (v6)

    "Let thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven"

  17. #637
    Senior Member Willie-T's Avatar
    Join Date
    February 7th, 2015
    Age
    72
    Posts
    18,674
    Rep Power
    186

    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    Exhibit "A"...


    We could also preach Christ and what He has already done. All is well. We have a good, good Father!


    Beautiful song. We sing it probably at least once every month.
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________
    “True eloquence consists of saying all that is necessary, and only that which is .” François Duc De La Rochefoucauld
    I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

  18. #638
    Senior Member followjesus's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 1st, 2016
    Age
    40
    Posts
    2,723
    Rep Power
    39

    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace777x70 View Post
    I think God "predestined" us to have the free will of fighting amongst us about things that have no importance in the kingdom of God and to reveal that we are either living by His life in us or by our own religious beliefs.

    There is an alternative to all this. Let's preach and teach Christ Himself and His grace and love so that we can actually grow up in Him? We could actually encourage each other and learn from each other.

    Or we could continue to bite and devouring each other in the name of "rightly dividing the word of truth as we see it?"
    Preaching Christ, includes believing and sharing all of His word, the things that men dont like to Hear, that Jesus preached, are essential parts of doctrine..... i think is the divide.

  19. #639
    Senior Member pottersclay's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 13th, 2015
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,373
    Rep Power
    64

    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    Putting a label on your own beliefs doesn't affect God in any way whatsoever.
    It just makes it easier for OTHERS to understand your general beliefs.

    But either way, it's not really a big deal.

    Why sure it does saint, when the Lord does something that doesn't fit the pigeon hole we put him in ....we might want to tend to ignore it....or worse yet....say it was the other guy
    Willie-T likes this.

  20. #640
    Senior Member preacher4truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 28th, 2016
    Age
    52
    Posts
    1,345
    Rep Power
    31

    Default Re: Lets Talk Free Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by followjesus View Post
    Preaching Christ, includes believing and sharing all of His word, the things that men dont like to Hear, that Jesus preached, are essential parts of doctrine..... i think is the divide.
    And if one doesn't like those parts? Well just find a verse and pit it against those parts, and call those who do believe those parts names and accuse them of "slander."
    People are offended that God is God.

    Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon

    I threw out the writings of Moses because he killed that Egyptian guy.

Page 32 of 41 FirstFirst ... 223031323334 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Eternal Security and free choice for the Christian?
    By Chester in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 182
    Last Post: June 8th, 2016, 09:39 AM
  2. Free will,devine nature,or choice.
    By storms4me in forum Bible Discussion Forum
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: December 13th, 2014, 03:42 PM
  3. Replies: 4
    Last Post: October 17th, 2013, 06:14 AM
  4. lets talk about God
    By Lee-Willhite in forum New Christian Chat Members (Introduce yourselves!!!)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: April 22nd, 2013, 05:05 PM
  5. Replies: 3
    Last Post: September 11th, 2011, 01:03 AM