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Yep. Mixed in with God isn't fair, or just if this is true with a huge dollop of Romans 9:20 thrown in.
Plenty of Scripture has been given, and there is a time to either accept it, or, just don't. God chooses, not man, it is plainly all over Scripture and frankly people just do not like that God is in control. Then to top it off God is called names because of these truths because He just isn't deemed "fair" for not falling under finite mans rules. That's the problem, man is exalted, God must be domesticated.
"I just don't like that Scripture! God isn't like what the Bible says! I determine what He is like because I know what is fair and what is just! I make the rules here!"
Un. Real.
Plenty of Scripture has been given, and there is a time to either accept it, or, just don't. God chooses, not man, it is plainly all over Scripture and frankly people just do not like that God is in control. Then to top it off God is called names because of these truths because He just isn't deemed "fair" for not falling under finite mans rules. That's the problem, man is exalted, God must be domesticated.
"I just don't like that Scripture! God isn't like what the Bible says! I determine what He is like because I know what is fair and what is just! I make the rules here!"
Un. Real.
When the Spirit draws, they come. The greek word for draw is 'helko' and it means to literally drag off. The same word, helko, is used in John 18:10 when Peter drew his sword and in John 21:11 when Peter drew the net to the shore. This drawing is literally dragging, not that He drags us kicking and screaming against our wills, but He effectually draws sinners to the Christ.
Yes, you're wrong, and I'll show you, but you'll stick to your eisegesis instead of actual interpretive exegesis.
Convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment isn't "drawing". Nothing in the text shows that drawing. You're adding that to the text after showing unfounded and unnecessary disdain for reformed believers. So, you're on an agenda and it has muddled your mind.
So, please show me where the term drawing is in this text, I'll be waiting. Since you've been refuted, why not just, like a man, except that you've been refuted?
Wrong still, you just do not know what you're talking about.
Convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment isn't "drawing". Nothing in the text shows that drawing. You're adding that to the text after showing unfounded and unnecessary disdain for reformed believers. So, you're on an agenda and it has muddled your mind.
So, please show me where the term drawing is in this text, I'll be waiting. Since you've been refuted, why not just, like a man, except that you've been refuted?
Wrong still, you just do not know what you're talking about.
To be fair, I'm always quoting John 6 and it specifically says the Father draws. On the other hand, the words "The Holy Spirit doesn't draw" has never left my lips (or fingertips). But when put up against a wall, I can't find a verse that says the Holy Spirit draws. It seems the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all work in unison and in a collective effort for the salvation of a man, each in their own way. They are getting the Holy Spirit draws all men from John 16. I could be wrong, but I don't see what they see in this passage:
The Work of the Holy Spirit“I did not say these things to you from the beginning, because I was with you. 5 But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ 6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; 11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
There seems to be a distinction in what the Holy Spirit does here for the world and what He does for "you" (the believer). Correct me if I'm wrong.
Edit: wording
The Work of the Holy Spirit“I did not say these things to you from the beginning, because I was with you. 5 But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ 6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; 11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
There seems to be a distinction in what the Holy Spirit does here for the world and what He does for "you" (the believer). Correct me if I'm wrong.
Edit: wording
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Yes, I see nothing in Scripture that speaks of the Holy Spirit "drawing" the lost to Christ. Conviction of sin, righteousness, and judgment, yes. Each person of the trinity has a complementary role. The Father and Son draw. The Spirit does His ministry. The Father and Son do theirs as well.
That said, it is doubtful any will own this and accept this truth, but will instead go on with what they want to believe a text says when it is clear that it doesn't say this at all. So much for wanting to hold to sound doctrine, being "right" is more important even if Scripture doesn't support them.
So, how will they then believe other Scriptures in what they plainly say when they take this one and add to it?
That said, it is doubtful any will own this and accept this truth, but will instead go on with what they want to believe a text says when it is clear that it doesn't say this at all. So much for wanting to hold to sound doctrine, being "right" is more important even if Scripture doesn't support them.
So, how will they then believe other Scriptures in what they plainly say when they take this one and add to it?
I think God "predestined" us to have the free will of fighting amongst us about things that have no importance in the kingdom of God and to reveal that we are either living by His life in us or by our own religious beliefs.
There is an alternative to all this. Let's preach and teach Christ Himself and His grace and love so that we can actually grow up in Him? We could actually encourage each other and learn from each other.
Or we could continue to bite and devouring each other in the name of "rightly dividing the word of truth as we see it?"
There is an alternative to all this. Let's preach and teach Christ Himself and His grace and love so that we can actually grow up in Him? We could actually encourage each other and learn from each other.
Or we could continue to bite and devouring each other in the name of "rightly dividing the word of truth as we see it?"
He's totally against sound doctrine, and totally for false doctrine, anything goes. I'm always amazed at the wolves who are zipping themselves up in fleece so they can come to others to appear as sheep.
Contorting the Word to come to "wolves conclusions" has a history stemming from the garden. You know, just throw a few verses together, out of context, and use it against what God really said. That's as old as the serpents garden tactics, and that is a fact.
Contorting the Word to come to "wolves conclusions" has a history stemming from the garden. You know, just throw a few verses together, out of context, and use it against what God really said. That's as old as the serpents garden tactics, and that is a fact.
1 john 5:5-8 "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by WATER and BLOOD. And it is THE SPIRIT THAT BEARETH WITNESS, because the Spirit is truth.
7For there are three that BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN, the FATHER, the WORD, and the HOLY GHOST: and these three are one.
8And there are three that BEAR WITNESS IN EARTH, the SPIRIT, and the WATER, and the BLOOD: and these three agree IN ONE. " (v6)
"Let thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven"
