James's Faith With Works VS Paul's Faith Without Works

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Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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30 to 40 years before, what a joke! Nehemiah6, I've placed you on ignore, please do the same.
The epistle of James was written between AD 60 and 70 according to most scholars, but some even go further out between 70-100 AD, and some go to an early date between AD 45 and 48. It does not matter. The point is that Israel rejected Messiah in AD 30, and the Jews in the Roman empire generally rejected the Gospel as we see in Acts.
 

JaumeJ

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Jul 2, 2011
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The fact is it was written to be read by thhose who believe Jesus Christ or are seeking to believe Him.
As for the Jews rejecting Christ's teaching, this was intended by God to be for teh salvation of many..


The epistle of James was written between AD 60 and 70 according to most scholars, but some even go further out between 70-100 AD, and some go to an early date between AD 45 and 48. It does not matter. The point is that Israel rejected Messiah in AD 30, and the Jews in the Roman empire generally rejected the Gospel as we see in Acts.
 

valiant

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Mar 22, 2015
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BOTH were talking about faith which preceded works.
 

FlyingDove

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Dec 27, 2017
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The epistle of James was written between AD 60 and 70 according to most scholars, but some even go further out between 70-100 AD, and some go to an early date between AD 45 and 48. It does not matter. The point is that Israel rejected Messiah in AD 30, and the Jews in the Roman empire generally rejected the Gospel as we see in Acts.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Book-of-James.html James 45 AD

James Summary James 48-49 AD

New Testament Books - Dating James 38 AD

Bible Q | In what year was each book of the Bible written? James late 40's

When was the New Testament written? James 40-41 AD

https://bible.org/article/introduction-book-james James 45-49

http://www.biblicalstudies.com/bstudy/expostudy/james.htm James written around 46 AD

https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/Jas/Historical-Context James written between A.D. 40 and 50

https://www.blueletterbible.org/study/eo/jam/jam000.cfm James 49 AD

https://bibleview.org/en/bible/actspartone/james/ James 45-50 AD
 

FlyingDove

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Dec 27, 2017
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Council of Jerusalem 51 AD

Nehemiah6, you keep claiming the book of James is written to Hebrew Christians (whatever that means)

James 1:1 James, a servant of God & of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the """12 tribes""" which are scattered abroad, greeting.

God changed Jacobs name to Israel (Genesis 35:10). """The 12 Tribes are Jacobs sons""". Each receiving a portion of Land in Israel. Except Levi. Joseph got a double portion Ephraim and Manasseh. So, James is written to Israelites.
 

valiant

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Mar 22, 2015
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when James wrote to 'the twelve tribes of Israel' he was addressing the whole Christian church under that description (5.14), otherwise why did he totally ignore relations with Gentile believers?
 
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John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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when James wrote to 'the twelve tribes of Israel' he was addressing the whole Christian church under that description (5.14), otherwise why did he totally ignore relations with Gentile believers?
In Christ, there is not Jew or Gentile. James is not a Christian epistle, rather, a letter written to the nation of Israel as a whole.
 

Nehemiah6

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Nehemiah6, you keep claiming the book of James is written to Hebrew Christians (whatever that means)
FlyingDove,

It is not "whatever it means". It was God's decision to address those descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as "HEBREWS" when He cause the epistle to the Hebrews to be written down. That is very significant, since Paul also calls himself "a Hebrew of the Hebrews". "Jews" would be primarily from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, but "Hebrews" represents all twelve tribes.

Now there is no question that James -- the Lord's brother -- was a Hebrew Christian writing PRIMARILY to Hebrew Christians but addressing all the children of God (not unsaved Jews). Similarly, Peter wrote his epistles to Hebrew Christians since he was the primary apostle to the Jews. Also Paul wrote the epistle to the Hebrew Christians but it is in fact to the whole Church. And everything that James says pertains to the Law of Christ under the New Covenant, therefore he calls it (a) the Royal Law and (b) the Law of Liberty. The bottom line is that the epistle of James to to all Christians, and NOT to unsaved Jews,
 

FlyingDove

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Dec 27, 2017
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FlyingDove,

It is not "whatever it means". It was God's decision to address those descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as "HEBREWS" when He cause the epistle to the Hebrews to be written down. That is very significant, since Paul also calls himself "a Hebrew of the Hebrews". "Jews" would be primarily from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, but "Hebrews" represents all twelve tribes.

Now there is no question that James -- the Lord's brother -- was a Hebrew Christian writing PRIMARILY to Hebrew Christians but addressing all the children of God (not unsaved Jews). Similarly, Peter wrote his epistles to Hebrew Christians since he was the primary apostle to the Jews. Also Paul wrote the epistle to the Hebrew Christians but it is in fact to the whole Church. And everything that James says pertains to the Law of Christ under the New Covenant, therefore he calls it (a) the Royal Law and (b) the Law of Liberty. The bottom line is that the epistle of James to to all Christians, and NOT to unsaved Jews,
Paul uses Jew 12 time in 12 verses
Paul uses Jews 18 time in 16 verses = 30 total

Paul uses Israelite 1 time in 1 verse
Paul uses Israelites 2 times in 2 verses = 3 total

Paul uses Hebrew 1 time in 1 verse
Paul uses Hebrews 3 times in 3 verses = 4 total

Jesus uses Jew 0 times in 0 verses
Jesus uses Jews 4 times in 4 verses = 4 total

Jesus uses Israelite 1 time in 1 verse
Jesus uses Israelites 0 times in 0 verses = 1

Jesus uses Hebrew 0 times in 0 verses
Jesus uses Hebrews 0 times in 0 verses = 0
Is the Epistles of James, Peter, Jonn 1,2,3 & Jude collectively
I found the words Jew, Jews, Israelite, Isrelites, Hebrew, Hebrews 0 time in 0 verses! All references KJV

Not one reference in ALL scripture of Hebrew christians
 

FlyingDove

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Dec 27, 2017
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All scripture was written for us. Not all scripture is written to us. Scripture Study Tips:

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.
^^^Myles Coverdale, Bible theologian/translator^^^

James is writting to Israelites. The Temple worship & sacrifices are still taking place.

James epistle is in view of the coming pressures of the Tribulation. The King would soon return and set up the one thousand year Kingdom Age. The Council of Jerusalem takes place after James writes his epistle.

At the Council of Jerusalem ALL the Apostles debate & agree. Then send letters to the gentiles churches. Stating gentiles don't have to be circumcised or keep the law of Moses

Our gentile Gospel of salvation isn't found in James Epistle. The gentile gospel by which we are saved, 1 Cor 15:1-4 Is that Christ died for our sins, was buried & rose from the dead.

Our gentile gospel has no connection to Temple worship. No connection to the Mosaic Laws. James writes nothing about the gentile Body of Christ/Church.

More clarity: Gentile Body of Christ/Church. Established by Paul has 3 Pastoral Epistles 1st & 2nd Timothy & Titus. In these epistles the leadership are Pastors & Decons. Good luck finding Pastors & Decons at the Temple when James is written.

There is a transitional period of time. From aprox 40 Ad til the Temple is destroyed in 70 AD. When BOTH Assemblies, Temple & Church are valid & operating. After the Temple is destroyed only one valid message remains, Pauls! No circumcision, No Temple sacrifices, No Mosiac law to obey. This transition began in 51 AD (AFTER JAMES WROTE HIS EPISTLE) at the Council of Jerusalem.

The RISEN Christ ordained (1 Tim 2:7) Paul. And sends him to minister to the Gentiles (Acts 26:17)

Acts 26:15 Saul said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

16 Jesus said; rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
(NOTE: The RISEN Christtells Paul. The Gentiles to whom I now send you.

18 (A) To open their eyes, (B) and to turn them from darkness to light, (C) and from the power of Satan unto God, (D) that they may receive forgiveness of sins, (E) and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

(A) To open their eyes: Reveal/expose and introduce the Gentiles to God

(B) and to turn Gentiles from darkness to light: bring then out of an elaborate system of idolatry, false worship paganism to the knowledge and worship of the one true God.

(C) and from the power of Satan (Adamic nature) to the authority of God (A New Spiritaul Creation) bringing the soul from it's birth state of spiritual darkness. To the light and liberty of/in Christ.

(D) that the Gentiles may receive forgiveness of sins: That all their sins may be pardoned. Thru faith placed in the sin atoning sacrifice. Found in death, burial & resurrection of Jesus the Christ

(E) and inheritance among the Gentiles that are sanctified by faith that is in me:

Sanctification is a process: It begings the moment of salvation/justification. You are sanctified (set apart) for a work in Christ towards God. This work continues until the ultimate plan of glorification unfolds. At this time a new incorruptable body along with a prepared inheritance is given

The Gentile, Body of Christ/Church doctrine is found only in the Apostle Paul's writings, Romans to Philemon.

In the event the someone isn't sure how to obtain salvtion:

Acknowledge your sins before God. Place your faith in the redemptive sin atoning sacrifice. Found in the death (sins wage paid), burial & resurrection (God's receipt, payment received) of God's Son, Jesus the Christ.

Romans 10:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Maranatha FlyingDove
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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Not one reference in ALL scripture of Hebrew christians
So unless you see "Hebrew Christians" explicitly mentioned in the Bible, they don't exist?

So who are these "holy brethren" mentioned in Hebrews 3:1 other than Hebrew Christians? Kindly enlighten us.

Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus...
 
Dec 4, 2017
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Council of Jerusalem 51 AD

Nehemiah6, you keep claiming the book of James is written to Hebrew Christians (whatever that means)

James 1:1 James, a servant of God & of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the """12 tribes""" which are scattered abroad, greeting.

God changed Jacobs name to Israel (Genesis 35:10). """The 12 Tribes are Jacobs sons""". Each receiving a portion of Land in Israel. Except Levi. Joseph got a double portion Ephraim and Manasseh. So, James is written to Israelites.
and specific tribes will hear the call.
 
Dec 4, 2017
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and specific tribes will hear the call.
[h=1]John 13Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)[/h][FONT=&quot]13 It was just before the festival of Pesach, and Yeshua knew that the time had come for him to pass from this world to the Father. Having loved his own people in the world, he loved them to the end. 2 They were at supper, and the Adversary had already put the desire to betray him into the heart of Y’hudah Ben-Shim‘on from K’riot. 3 Yeshua was aware that the Father had put everything in his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God. 4 So he rose from the table, removed his outer garments and wrapped a towel around his waist. 5 Then he poured some water into a basin and began to wash the feet of the talmidim and wipe them off with the towel wrapped around him.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 He came to Shim‘on Kefa, who said to him, “Lord! You are washing my feet?” 7 Yeshua answered him, “You don’t understand yet what I am doing, but in time you will understand.” 8 “No!” said Kefa, “You will never wash my feet!” Yeshua answered him, “If I don’t wash you, you have no share with me.” 9 “Lord,” Shim‘on Kefa replied, “not only my feet, but my hands and head too!” 10 Yeshua said to him, “A man who has had a bath doesn’t need to wash, except his feet — his body is already clean. And you people are clean, but not all of you.” 11 (He knew who was betraying him; this is why he said, “Not all of you are clean.”)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 After he had washed their feet, taken back his clothes and returned to the table, he said to them, “Do you understand what I have done to you? 13 You call me ‘Rabbi’ and ‘Lord,’ and you are right, because I am. 14 Now if I, the Lord and Rabbi, have washed your feet, you also should wash each other’s feet. 15 For I have set you an example, so that you may do as I have done to you. 16 Yes, indeed! I tell you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is an emissary greater than the one who sent him. 17 If you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 “I’m not talking to all of you — I know which ones I have chosen. But the words of the Tanakh must be fulfilled that say, ‘The one eating my bread has turned against me.’[a] 19 I’m telling you now, before it happens; so that when it does happen, you may believe that I AM [who I say I am]. 20 Yes, indeed! I tell you that a person who receives someone I send receives me, and that anyone who receives me receives the One who sent me.”[/FONT]
 
H

heartofdavid

Guest
All scripture was written for us. Not all scripture is written to us. Scripture Study Tips:

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.
^^^Myles Coverdale, Bible theologian/translator^^^

James is writting to Israelites. The Temple worship & sacrifices are still taking place.

James epistle is in view of the coming pressures of the Tribulation. The King would soon return and set up the one thousand year Kingdom Age. The Council of Jerusalem takes place after James writes his epistle.

At the Council of Jerusalem ALL the Apostles debate & agree. Then send letters to the gentiles churches. Stating gentiles don't have to be circumcised or keep the law of Moses

Our gentile Gospel of salvation isn't found in James Epistle. The gentile gospel by which we are saved, 1 Cor 15:1-4 Is that Christ died for our sins, was buried & rose from the dead.

Our gentile gospel has no connection to Temple worship. No connection to the Mosaic Laws. James writes nothing about the gentile Body of Christ/Church.

More clarity: Gentile Body of Christ/Church. Established by Paul has 3 Pastoral Epistles 1st & 2nd Timothy & Titus. In these epistles the leadership are Pastors & Decons. Good luck finding Pastors & Decons at the Temple when James is written.

There is a transitional period of time. From aprox 40 Ad til the Temple is destroyed in 70 AD. When BOTH Assemblies, Temple & Church are valid & operating. After the Temple is destroyed only one valid message remains, Pauls! No circumcision, No Temple sacrifices, No Mosiac law to obey. This transition began in 51 AD (AFTER JAMES WROTE HIS EPISTLE) at the Council of Jerusalem.

The RISEN Christ ordained (1 Tim 2:7) Paul. And sends him to minister to the Gentiles (Acts 26:17)

Acts 26:15 Saul said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

16 Jesus said; rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
(NOTE: The RISEN Christtells Paul. The Gentiles to whom I now send you.

18 (A) To open their eyes, (B) and to turn them from darkness to light, (C) and from the power of Satan unto God, (D) that they may receive forgiveness of sins, (E) and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

(A) To open their eyes: Reveal/expose and introduce the Gentiles to God

(B) and to turn Gentiles from darkness to light: bring then out of an elaborate system of idolatry, false worship paganism to the knowledge and worship of the one true God.

(C) and from the power of Satan (Adamic nature) to the authority of God (A New Spiritaul Creation) bringing the soul from it's birth state of spiritual darkness. To the light and liberty of/in Christ.

(D) that the Gentiles may receive forgiveness of sins: That all their sins may be pardoned. Thru faith placed in the sin atoning sacrifice. Found in death, burial & resurrection of Jesus the Christ

(E) and inheritance among the Gentiles that are sanctified by faith that is in me:

Sanctification is a process: It begings the moment of salvation/justification. You are sanctified (set apart) for a work in Christ towards God. This work continues until the ultimate plan of glorification unfolds. At this time a new incorruptable body along with a prepared inheritance is given

The Gentile, Body of Christ/Church doctrine is found only in the Apostle Paul's writings, Romans to Philemon.

In the event the someone isn't sure how to obtain salvtion:

Acknowledge your sins before God. Place your faith in the redemptive sin atoning sacrifice. Found in the death (sins wage paid), burial & resurrection (God's receipt, payment received) of God's Son, Jesus the Christ.

Romans 10:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Maranatha FlyingDove
And yet James Ch 5 tells us it is written to the church.

You skip over it.
It is indeed testifying against ALL you are saying.

You need to show me where the synagogue had elders praying for the sick and forgiveness obtained outside Jewish law.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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And yet James Ch 5 tells us it is written to the church.

You skip over it.
It is indeed testifying against ALL you are saying.

You need to show me where the synagogue had elders praying for the sick and forgiveness obtained outside Jewish law.
Hello again David,

An answer to your question. I said Temple in Jerusalem & made no reference to James 5.

However, I will attempt to give further details.

The word Church translates from the Greek word - ekklesia -

Which can be translated as follows:

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: For CHURCH see ASSEMBLY & CONGREGATION
https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ved/c/church.html

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Assembly — Noun Feminine — ekklesia — ek-klay-see'-ah)
https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ved/a/assembly.html

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Congregation — Noun Feminine — ekklesia — ek-klay-see'-ah)
https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ved/c/congregation.html

NOTE: CHURCH, ASSEMBLY & CONGREGATION all translate from the Greek word — ekklesia —

KJV
James 2:2 For if there come unto your """assembly""" a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
(NOTE: David, you must have missed this James verse)

Find here Bible that Translate — ekklesia — Assembly & Congregation

Darby Bible
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+5&version=DARBY
(NOTE: Assembly

Youngs Literal Trsnslation
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+5&version=YLT
(NOTE: Assembly

Complete Jewish Bible
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+5&version=CJB
(NOTE: Congregation

And finally Strongs #G4864 Translates James 2:2 synagogue
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g4864

David, I hope this helps. May his Grace by multiplied to you & yours. FD
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
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Actually, James's faith with works was not opposing what Paul has said about faith in Jesus Christ without works.

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?[SUP] 2 [/SUP]For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.[SUP] 3 [/SUP]For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.[SUP]5 [/SUP]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Since Paul was given the right hand of fellowship with James....

Galatians 2:[SUP]9 [/SUP]And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

And there is no other gospel... as stated earlier in that epistle to the Galatians...

Galatians 1:[SUP]6 [/SUP]I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:[SUP] 7 [/SUP]Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.[SUP] 9 [/SUP]As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Then what was James talking about? James 2nd chapter provided at this link below.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+2&version=KJV

James was talking about the church's willful neglect and abuse of the poor starting in the very first verse of that 2 nd chapter of James. James even cited an abuse where the church after service was giving a kind of benediction of faith to the departing poor, "Be warmed and be filled" as if by voicing faith in God's Providence to the poor that it will somehow be divinely supernaturally done WITHOUT meeting the poor's immediate needs of perishing from the elements or starvation.

So James was NOT talking about faith in Jesus Christ at all for salvation for that faith is always without works, BUT James was addressing the church's verbalization of their faith in God's Providence to the poor that they better lead by example or else in the eyes of the poor, the church's faith in God's Providence is dead and it will not profit the poor nor save the poor by the church's lack of setting the example of having that faith in God's Providence for the church's needs tomorrow by meeting the immediate needs of the poor today.

That is the kind of faith that James was talking about requiring works; an example if a church is going to verbalize it.

James gave reference of that kind of faith in His Providence by referring to Abraham's offering up of Isaac on the altar. Christians that converted from Judaism are quite familiar with that particular faith mentioned in that story because the place was named as such after that kind of faith which was about God providing; not about faith in Jesus Christ without works to be saved.

Genesis 22:[SUP]7 [/SUP]And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?[SUP]8[/SUP]And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.............[SUP]13 [/SUP]And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.[SUP]14 [/SUP]And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.

So James was not opposing Paul because many readers and churches and ministries are applying James's words wrongly. James was never talking about the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation for that has to be without works. You cannot call Jesus Christ the Saviour if He really did not do it when it relies upon you in doing works to be saved or to be kept saved.

James was talking about verbalizing faith in God's Providence that those who say such things to get out of helping the poor, should repent by leading by example in meeting the immediate needs of the poor today and trust God to provide for the church's needs tomorrows.
Did you miss James 1:1....He is talking to the Jewish community not Gentiles.......We are (through Jesus) under Paul's ministry. NOT JAMES or any of the other apostles.
 

FlyingDove

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Dec 27, 2017
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NEHEMIAH6, This sad exchange of ours began here:

NEHEMIAH6 YOU SAID THIS:
There's a big difference between "James was written to Jews" and "James was written to saved Hebrew Christians". We should not be misleading people unnecessarily. And when errors are pointed out, that should be accepted and acted upon


NEHEMIAH6, THEN YOU SAID THIS
So unless you see "Hebrew Christians" explicitly mentioned in the Bible, they don't exist?

So who are these "holy brethren" mentioned in Hebrews 3:1 other than Hebrew Christians? Kindly enlighten us.

Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus...
Nehemiah6, You called me out for saying James was written to Jews. You told me I should not be misleading people unnecessarily.

I have admitted Jews was a poor choice of words. I choose Jews because that's how the Apostle Paul address them.

Examples:

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

He never say's 1st to the Hebrew, or 1st to The Israelite.

Having said that James 1:1 is clear:

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, """""to the twelve tribes""""" which are scattered abroad, greeting.

God changed Jacobs name to Israel (Genesis 35:10). """The 12 Tribes are Jacobs sons""". Each receiving a portion of Land in Israel. Except Levi. Joseph got a double portion Ephraim and Manasseh. So, James is written to Israelites.

So, if we must split hairs. The correct presentation is: James is writing to Israelites.

If I mislead anyone I apologize.

Finally, the origin of Hebrews was never part of the topic. And Hebrew Christian does not fit in the context of the post that began this regretful exchange.

I will not continue this fruitless exchange. Best wishes, FD
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Did you miss James 1:1....He is talking to the Jewish community not Gentiles.......We are (through Jesus) under Paul's ministry. NOT JAMES or any of the other apostles.
This puts an unnecessarily negative cast on the Epistle of James.

1. He is talking to the Jewish community not Gentiles. -- Since he addresses the 12 tribes, its not simply "the Jewish community" -- but all Hebrews Christians. But that does NOT exclude Gentiles, since God already knew that ultimately there would be more Gentiles reading and studying James than Jews. So in fact he is writing to the Church in all ages, but he addresses Hebrew Christians [which goes beyond just Jews (Judah and Benjamin)].

2. ...under Paul's ministry. NOT JAMES or any of the other apostles. Why would you say this when the ENTIRE NT is for all Christians in all ages? Every apostle and evangelist wrote by Divine inspiration, and every one of those NT books is a part of the canon of Scripture.
 

vic1980

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Apr 25, 2013
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This is a very odd choice of discussion , because both brethren were inspired by God. And both of them had the same Gospel.

Acts 20:34-35 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. "In everything I showed you that by working hard in this manner you must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He Himself said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'"

Shalom

 
H

heartofdavid

Guest
Hello again David,

An answer to your question. I said Temple in Jerusalem & made no reference to James 5.

However, I will attempt to give further details.

The word Church translates from the Greek word - ekklesia -

Which can be translated as follows:

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: For CHURCH see ASSEMBLY & CONGREGATION
https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ved/c/church.html

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Assembly — Noun Feminine — ekklesia — ek-klay-see'-ah)
https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ved/a/assembly.html

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Congregation — Noun Feminine — ekklesia — ek-klay-see'-ah)
https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ved/c/congregation.html

NOTE: CHURCH, ASSEMBLY & CONGREGATION all translate from the Greek word — ekklesia —

KJV
James 2:2 For if there come unto your """assembly""" a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
(NOTE: David, you must have missed this James verse)

Find here Bible that Translate — ekklesia — Assembly & Congregation

Darby Bible
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+5&version=DARBY
(NOTE: Assembly

Youngs Literal Trsnslation
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+5&version=YLT
(NOTE: Assembly

Complete Jewish Bible
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+5&version=CJB
(NOTE: Congregation

And finally Strongs #G4864 Translates James 2:2 synagogue
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g4864

David, I hope this helps. May his Grace by multiplied to you & yours. FD
Again,James 5 is sidestepped. Ch 5 teaches us he is writing to believers. Complete with elders,healing,church,and forgiveness outside of Jewish law.

Your response could be, that James is suggesting to All 12 TRIBES,what to do if a Jew is sick????
Go to a church????

Lets go with the obvious. James written to believers.